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Author Topic: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Strategy Phase 2212  (Read 38493 times)

Draignean

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2208
« Reply #105 on: May 18, 2017, 11:42:53 am »

Jormungandr Bolter
I mean, I definitely like the idea. It would certainly outrange their rifles. I worry that we do not have the tech to do this, though, and we can't afford another flop.

...part of me still wants to do it. It would be a lot more interesting than 'WWI-II era rifle'.

@Chiefwaffles, were you intending for us to work our way up the tech tree, or can we leapfrog up it without major penalties? Like, do we have the knowledge, if not the blueprints, of how to construct modern rifles?

Here's my reasoning: We already have this.

This is, in essence, the same round we fire from our warship. The problems with the warship stem largely from the large scale printers being imprecise, but this is automatically fixed by using the smaller 1st/2nd gen printers.

Miniaturization usually presents issues with machining, but our printing is already well suited to the task -our first design helped with that- and the tech is already there.

We have to get off the back foot, and we can't do that just by copying them unless we get damn lucky. The Jormungandr gives us range and light anti-armor, with the potential for further upgrades,  and it has the potential to provide a research bonus to designing large scale autoloaders for the warship.
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I have a degree in Computer Seance, that means I'm officially qualified to tell you that the problem with your system is that it's possessed by Satan.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2208
« Reply #106 on: May 18, 2017, 11:47:07 am »

You'd get minor penalties for completely foregoing experience, but not to the point of it being prohibitive. And early on, experience counts for even more than normal because you also have earth knowledge on your side. You don't have the blueprints, but you have experience, general knowledge, sci-fi realitybending, and most importantly, hindsight.

For example, your experience with ballistics in the Mk 1.1 pistols and missiles helps a lot more here than experience with pistols in 1910. And even without experience, many "near-future/modern" things are possible to a degree.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Detoxicated

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2208
« Reply #107 on: May 18, 2017, 11:47:57 am »

Quote
Jormungandr Bolter (1): Detoxicated,
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Draignean

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2208
« Reply #108 on: May 18, 2017, 11:55:02 am »


Quote
Jormungandr Bolter (2): Detoxicated,Draignean
Scaythia Rifle: (1) NUKE9.13
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2208
« Reply #109 on: May 18, 2017, 11:56:34 am »

Oh, all right. What's the worst that could happen?
...plenty of things, but that's not the point.

Quote
Jormungandr Bolter (3): Detoxicated, Draignean, NUKE9.13
Scaythia Rifle: (0)
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Felissan

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2208
« Reply #110 on: May 18, 2017, 11:59:52 am »

Quote
Jormungandr Bolter (4): Detoxicated, Draignean, NUKE9.13, Felissan
Scaythia Rifle: (0)
(Also, if we only get 1-2 rolls again, I blame it on NUKE)
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I always figured you should never bring a gun to a gun fight because then you'll be part of a gun fight.

Nirur Torir

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2208
« Reply #111 on: May 18, 2017, 03:13:21 pm »

This is not a good counter to rifles, but it might work as an adequate counter, it deters them from researching vehicles or infantry armor, and we so clearly need more practice with missiles.

Quote
Jormungandr Bolter (5): Detoxicated, Draignean, NUKE9.13, Felissan, Nirur Torir
Scaythia Rifle: (0)
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2208
« Reply #112 on: May 18, 2017, 06:24:05 pm »

Jormungandr Bolter
5, 4-1+1, 6-2

Finally, some luck!
After seeing an informative documentary about the "Gyrojet" weapons made in the 1960s back on earth and their many many fundamental flaws, one of our designers was struck with genius: Let's do that thing.
So we did. And it was great. Ultimately, the Jormungandr Bolter is a recoilless rifle scaled down to standard use for the bulk of our forces. In fact, we were particularly inspired by stories of a continent named Forenia where soldiers used recoilless rifles on horseback in the 1920's. Of course, that's simply too ridiculous to be true, but stories like that helped regardless.

The Jormungandr Bolter, is in a way, a greatly miniaturized version of our warship missile tubes. The ammunition used is essentially a scaled-down version of our warship rockets, minus the guiding elements. The entire weapon is roughly a bit bigger than a "normal" rifle with the accompanying extra weight as well, but it's still well within acceptable ranges to be "comfortably" used by our infantry on the field. Our advanced printers come into play in making the gun and its ammo. We eventually decided to forego complete 3D printing manufacturing, but precise 3D printing of many of the required parts for both the Bolters and ammo significantly helped the expense rates.
Recoil, despite the naysayers in Central Command, is fine. Particularly complicated work in the Bolters allows the recoil to, like a recoilless rifle, be dispersed instead of forcing its weight onto the rifle holder. We don't recommend standing behind the parts of the gun labeled "WARNING", but surprisingly you won't be too injured if you do.

The ammo is very destructive. In addition to having a notable chance to, as our testing soldiers call it, "gib" hostiles in a surprisingly morale-improving effect, it also can break through armor of all kinds. Kevlar is of no concern to the bolts and any types of vehicle armor that could be introduced to the battle soon could likely be pierced by the bolts. The marines that guard the interiors of our ships like the IMW #1 still use pistols in fact, as the Bolters can easily pierce through an IMW's armor that's normally resistant to small arms fire. In fact, concentrated bolter fire could likely bring down an IMW, but that happens to be an unlikely scenario. In short, the Bolter can easily pierce current armor and probably any kinds of armor in the near-future as well.
In some situations, the bolts' explosive effects can down nearby enemy troops as well, and near misses are much more forgiving as their explosions can at the very least knock over Amoakian troops.

Unfortunately, the Bolter doesn't excel at long ranges. The missiles themselves maintain velocity at extreme ranges, but that isn't the only factor. Evidently, our warship missiles relied on guidance as a crutch and even with our modifications (like the rifling) to work in the atmosphere, the bolts tend to veer off-target. It does excel at moderate ranges, however, where its accuracy is still acceptable. Assuming Amaok continues fielding their battle rifles, we will definitively have the advantage in moderate ranges, and will significantly lower their advantage at moderate-long ranges, but the Bolters are practically useless at actual long range where their battle rifles work just fine.
Just... don't use it in short ranges. At all. Whatsoever. Seriously. Central Command will be instituting a mandatory 10-hour training session for all soldiers receiving the Jormungandr Bolter after noticing that in testing alone, 20 people had blown their hands off after being told not to use it at short ranges. Explosives don't mix well in close quarters combat.

But now we have a gun that shoots missiles, and when deployed to a Unit, it's the service rifle. Forget warships; Moerth has Bolters now.

Jormungandr Bolter: A relatively large infantry rifle designed for full deployment, using miniature missiles as its rounds. Surprisingly easy to use, and can easily pierce through current armor and is likely future-proof in terms of armor piercing to some degree. Very effective anti-infantry weapon and even has very minor area of effect. Prohibitively inaccurate at long ranges and dangerous to use at short ranges.
Weight: 1 CU = 4x
Expense: 4x
Resources: Metal

It is now the Revision Phase of 2208.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Draignean

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #113 on: May 18, 2017, 06:47:47 pm »

Oh hell yes.

We have an adequate match to the Enemy rifles, with the added ability to coldcock any light mechanized/vehicle units they field in the near future.   Considering that there is a lot of room for upgrades on these guns, I am totes happy.

As for revisions, I think we have two main paths.

They've probably designed something to counter our blockade and get those rifles fully deployed. We can react to this and upgrade the IMW, which (if it goes well) has the chance to give us that world.

Alternatively we can try to do a revision to open the path fort later upgrades. Fixing the print instabilities in larger Akh. printers could yield massive benefits when we re-do the IMW into a warship with bolter turrets and homing launchers everywhere. Modifying out printers to be able to print biological materials would also be a step forward that would potentially open up worlds. Miniaturized electronics would enable us to upgrade the homing systems on the IMW, and would potentially allow us to add homing capabilities to Jormungandr ammo.
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Shadowclaw777

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #114 on: May 18, 2017, 06:49:50 pm »

I have two ideas for the revision phase, one to make our warship utilize our radios through an integrated systems instead of the way of heavy mobiles radios, or try again for another upgrade for our infantry side arms

Integrated Radio System: Currently our Interplanetary Makeshift Warship lack a radio system, but by integrating and modifying our current radio to be within the ships it will result for these ships to have a permanent way of information gathering and receiving, instead of the primitive courier network we have to utilize with the previous versions. This kind of integrated radio system for these ships will also be provided with the previous transport craft and could be utilized for any new ships we want to craft. The integration system of the radio would instead of being as a movable heavy tool, is instead controlled from our current generation of computer consoles into the ships wiring to deploy a decently powerful type of radio transmissions for interplanetary communication. This would all be done through an integration of a electronic system inside our ship

Printed Pistol Mk 1.2: Our previous revision for our currently deployed didn't meet design goals with having to scrap off the idea of an extended barrel. This new iteration for our printed pistols will now finally come with the extended barrel for more power and general armor penetration, but the firing type of this pistol has now been switched. It has replaced traditional semi-automatic blow-back firing type to become in the style of burst-fire. It shoots three bullets in rapid succession that maintains low recoil but now has a much more significant type of fire. It is also developed from lightweight alloys from the printers to help fixate any remaining ergonomic problems.

Edit:
Quote
Integrated Radio System: (1): Shadowclaw777
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 07:25:12 pm by Shadowclaw777 »
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #115 on: May 18, 2017, 06:52:26 pm »

Yesss! Yessss! Everything is 'yessss' now!

I'd like to revise our anti-ship missiles, but:
Miniaturized electronics would enable us to upgrade the homing systems on the IMW, and would potentially allow us to add homing capabilities to Jormungandr ammo.
This is an excellent point, and now I want to revise down to miniaturized electronics, probably with a printer upgrade. That lets us design a warship next turn with both guided missiles and radios.

Electronics Printing: By further refining our printers, they will be able to print with a variety of materials precisely enough to print circuitry, even into larger pieces like ship bulkheads. This will give us smaller electronics, and allow designs with robust (if difficult to repair) integrated electronics, which take little space.

Quote
Integrated Radio System: (1): Shadowclaw777
Electronics Printing (1):  Nirur Torir
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 08:14:14 pm by Nirur Torir »
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Draignean

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #116 on: May 18, 2017, 08:20:06 pm »

Quote
Integrated Radio System: (1): Shadowclaw777
Electronics Printing (2):  Nirur Torir
[/quote]
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Detoxicated

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #117 on: May 18, 2017, 09:51:45 pm »

Quote
Integrated Radio System: (1): Shadowclaw777
Electronics Printing (2):  Nirur Torir, Detoxicated
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Draignean

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #118 on: May 18, 2017, 10:01:49 pm »

I am a derp.

Quote
Integrated Radio System: (1): Shadowclaw777
Electronics Printing (3):  Nirur Torir,  Detoxicated, Draignean
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---
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A: "No, not particularly."

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #119 on: May 18, 2017, 11:37:45 pm »

Revision: Electronics Printing
6+1

Our Akhsoyrtam Printers may have seemed like a near-failure at the time, but even if we didn't accomplish our goals then, we now realize how much of a boon it has been to us. Thanks to the genius of our engineers both now and in the past, we have made serious upgrades to all the printers in the colony.

Electronics of all kinds of complexity and function can now be effortlessly printed in most materials by any printer through very easy-to-use functionalities. This isn't just "integrated circuits", but rather the ability to make computers without a mainframe; we can make our ships the computer, with redundant yet advanced circuitry built into the very hull. This circuitry isn't like anything else, too. It's a part of the material. People could walk through a ship built with printed electronics and never realize what any of the material actually does. Better yet, this new process doesn't harm the structural integrity of materials at all.
Of course, we can't 3D print everything, and printed circuitry is exclusive to 3D-printed materials, as it's built into the materials, not on top of them.

We've also included a basic tool that can identify damage in printed circuits and upload the information to a printer, allowing for easy repairing of damage. When holes are inevitably blown into printed materials containing circuitry, anyone can scan the damage and have a new piece made at a nearby printer. That being said, it would still require a skilled engineer to properly place in the new circuitry, but damage identification is easy.

Electronics printing is at the moment, not immediately useful to us. But it's an unexpected breakthrough that will greatly help in all our future endeavors.


It is now the Strategy Phase of 2208.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!
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