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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[ConscriptFive]

Per critiques, added some more features to the DDG.  Keep in mind that a 650 mm magnetic torpedo hits just as hard for relatively dirt cheap compared to the Saltseeker.  The Israeli classify the shit out of all their stuff, but that's probably a 300+ kg warhead.  Detonated under the keel, that's similar to the one shot kill capability of the Saltseeker.

Good idea with the balloon RADAR BTW.  As an added bonus, we could probably revise that as an anti-HARM decoy.

(1) UFS-DDG-45 'Onegin' Guided Missile Destroyer: ConscriptFive
(1) UFS-CG-45 'Bogdanov' Guided Missile Cruiser : Cnidaros
(0) UFN-SS-45 Archer II:

[Cnidaros]

Hmmm. I don't like the balloon radar idea as it's probably going to make our ships more obvious, both on radar and visually, which might not outweigh the benefits of seeing further. Plus, dragging it along should lessen the speed of our ships, which is important as I'm assuming missile cruisers need to rely on their speed to outmaneuver enemies and for hit-and-run attacks. And we'll need to devote additional deck space to launching and recovering the balloon radar apparatus. Also, I don't think it'll function as an anti-HARM decoy when Cannalan HARMs are installed in low-altitude missiles.

Also, I don't agree with "add anything and everything we possibly can" as a design philosophy, that's how we end up pushing normal designs to very hard. But I will include the Whalesong sonar and countermeasures package on the Bogdanov, I guess.

I don't think that we'll ever get in range to land hits with the torpedo, given that I believe the Cannalans are superior in gun combat right now. It's powerful, yes, but that doesn't mean much if the ship carrying it gets sunk by regular old 300mm shells anyway.

[evictedSaint]

It's not a permanent fixture.  If the drawbacks outweigh the  use, then it can be stowed. It's like complaining that the corkscrew on your swiss army knife isn't helpful and sticks out too much to comfortably fit in your pocket.  Besides, it's tethered to the conning tower, not the deck.

I do agree the torpedo is silly, though.

(1) UFS-DDG-45 'Onegin' Guided Missile Destroyer: ConscriptFive
(1) UFS-CG-45 'Bogdanov' Guided Missile Cruiser : Cnidaros
(0) UFN-SS-45 Archer II:
(1) UFS-GMC-45 "Outmatch" Pattern A: eS

[Cnidaros]

Still think that it should take up deck space to launch and recover though, which is space that might be used for other things. Also asking for it in the design, even if it's only used some of the time, should add to cost and complexity.

Plus, our ships really shouldn't be going anywhere without air cover, and we have airborne radar in our planes now. I'd be down for a cool radar AWACS airship, but as a separate design, not tacked onto the missile cruiser one.

[evictedSaint]

It's a weather balloon, dude. Not a space shuttle.

[ConscriptFive]

It's a weather balloon, dude. Not a space shuttle.

Yeah, it just goes where the helipad normally would have gone.  Also, ever try researching DDG's and then realize you can toss all the ASW capability out because subs aren't a thing yet?  Amazing how much deck space there is when you lose depth charge racks and hedgehog launchers.

[evictedSaint]

Out of curiosity, how big do you think a deflated weather balloon is? 

Edit: granted, we've never delved into the complex and advanced world of ballon-based technology, so I suppose it's possible being able to spot a fleet of enemy ships first wouldn't outweigh the two or three levels of difficulty a balloon would add.

[ConscriptFive]

It's more that you need enough standoff so the winch/power cable doesn't tangle on anything else, especially fragile commo and sensor dishes/antennas.  In high winds that cable might go horizontal.

[Parsely]

I'm not sure a weather balloon is the best comparison because weather balloons don't need to lift equipment, do they? I'm not sure exactly how much gear the proposed balloon would actually be lifting and that would affect the diameter of the balloon.

At any rate I doubt it would take much more deck space than, say, a cannon or ASW gear, so that's fine, and you can always evolve the balloon deck into a helipad later on. The cable is a good point though. You probably wouldn't launch a balloon in inclement weather, so I guess the worry is when bad weather sets in faster than you can stow it and you end up getting a cable tangled in the towers, that's bad news.

Is there a real world technology this is based on? That might provide some insight. I couldn't dig up much other than radar decoys by googling "towed naval radar" or similar.

[Happerry]

(1) UFS-DDG-45 'Onegin' Guided Missile Destroyer: ConscriptFive
(1) UFS-CG-45 'Bogdanov' Guided Missile Cruiser : Cnidaros
(0) UFN-SS-45 Archer II:
(2) UFS-GMC-45 "Outmatch" Pattern A: eS, Happerry

[Cnidaros]

Spoiler: Real-world Naval Aerostat Radar (click to show/hide)

I dunno, seems pretty big to me. It's over 10 times larger than a weather balloon by volume. Also, we don't exactly have helipads on our ships, unless we're trying to lure Cannalan helicopters in to land. These systems are used for border patrol and at low-level, but there are some others used for static airborne early warning. None that I can find in the naval role or mobile, though. The engine power needed to tow them against high-altitude winds is too much. Also, the system above can only carry up to 1000kg payload of 1980s radar, and adding both our early active and passive radar systems is going to put us over that limit.

I just don't see the point of having it when we already have airborne radar anyway. And those can fly in inclement weather, unlike the balloon radars.

By the way, if we're doing a missile cruiser we should do a Saltseeker upgrade as revision, since if the Cannalans do a missile cruiser as well we're right back to square one with the range disadvantage.

[evictedSaint]

Fair enough; I didn't realize how big it would have to be.  I'll tweak the Outmatch.

I'm not entirely happy with any of the cruisers as they are, not even mine any more.  They dont really do anything new; they're all based on the Cataphract, they all use existing missiles, and everything about them is inferior to what Cannala can do.  When Cannala rolls out their own version of the missile cruiser, it'll be a bigger advantage for them than us.  I really want something *new* to go with it, you know?

[NAV]

(1) UFS-DDG-45 'Onegin' Guided Missile Destroyer: ConscriptFive
(2) UFS-CG-45 'Bogdanov' Guided Missile Cruiser : Cnidaros, NAV
(0) UFN-SS-45 Archer II:
(2) UFS-GMC-45 "Outmatch" Pattern A: eS, Happerry

[Sensei]

Aw man, 1945 and we almost had our first blimp design.

[Taricus]

Better luck next game Sensei