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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Taricus]

That canner rifle is only really useful against tiger armour though. They basically wasted a design countering it

[Cnidaros]

Also, there isn't such a thing as a hard counter in this game.

TELL THAT TO TIGER ARMOUR AND SHITTY CANNER ANTI-MATERIEL RIFLE

10/10 r.i.p. fuck cannala guy never forget GM BIAS

[Kot]

I would like to mention flying boats apparently set a lot of plane records, for whatever reason.

"Iceberg" is all-metal high-wing monoplane flying boat. It's lower fuselage is shaped like a ship hull, allowing it to land and take-off from water, thus enabling us to resupply it at sea. It's wings are relatively small and swept back so it has high wing loading (long takeoff and landings don't really matter if it lands on water, and it won't really maneuver a lot at low speeds) and it's fitted with four aT-J40 turbofan engines attached on top, to minimize water indigestion. Similar to the aT-J30's in the VVF, the aT-40 is simply a non-hydrozine burning engine that can maintain the same thrust output. The plane has a tricycle landing gear, where the rear gear is high and placed in the wing roots, which allows it to be used on land. The plane is built like a Reckless Effect in terms of durability, having redundancies where applicable.

The plane is fitted with standard radar, a radar altimeter that will allow our pilots to fly low to the ground or water and a countermeasure package. It also has turret with a pair of autocannons in the tail, from where the gunner shares control the countermeasures with pilot, to allow for better detection of enemy missiles. The cabins are also air conditioned, and there should be two pilots and at least one flight engineer/radar operator, in addition to the rear gunner.

The plane has a rotating bomb bay, which is insulated against the water by blowing air from engines (this is something we totally should have - jet fuel tanks have to be pressurized to ensue that they don't get starved/the tank literally implodes) to ensue a tight fit. The bomb bay should take "a lot", around 10-15 tons, and there are also external hardpoints similar to those on VVF, that can be fitted with additional fuel or ordnance, such as "Noose" missiles or even "Saltseekers", and also our old torpedoes, even if they might not see a lot of use. The total useful carry capability should be somewhere around 20 tons, but kept under 30 tons, so the plane doesn't become too big and expensive. The plane could be also used to deploy naval mines, possibly through an additional hatch on the side of the plane.

If time allows the plane should be painted with that nice UV reflective paint other engineers have been proposing, and it could be applied to our other planes.

UFAF-SNB-45 'Tubby Duckling' (0):
Microprocessors (0) :
UF-GEV-45 Ekaterina (1) : 10ebbor10
UFN-SS-45 Archer II (3) : Cnidaros, Chiefwaffles, Kashyyk
UFAF-JB-45 Hammer of Forenia (: eS, Happerry, Taricus, Conscript Five, Powder Miner, Parsely, Stabby, Zanzetkuken
UFAF-LAB-45 Dustbiter ( : NUKE9.13, Wizgrot, Andrea, RAM, Madman, McHuman, NAV, Wolfhunter
UFAF-HB-45 "Spectre" (0) :
UFAF-HAFB-45 "Iceberg" (1): Kot

[NUKE9.13]

Carrier capable

Yeah, no. Certainly not with the carriers we have available to us now. A high-speeds-at-low-altitude plane has, by definition, low lift at low speeds (such as take off), meaning it needs a pretty long runway to get going. Also, it's probably a size bigger than what can fit on the Z.

Miscellaneous improvements for the Dustbiter
-It's probably implied, but might want to state that it's not a single-pilot deal. Crew should be about 3-5.
-Not sure about how powerful aT-J41 engines are, but I don't think we'll be lifting a multi-ton payload on just two of them. It should be a four-engined aircraft.
-I'm pretty sure that if it has a multi-ton payload, it can lift more than a single Saltseeker. The Saltseeker should be around 2 tonnes, maximum.
-If you're looking for greater lift at low speeds but low drag at high speeds, this thing could use a variable-geometry wing. Or not, since that would be extra complexity.
-Include a ground proximity warning system (could be a beeper that goes off if the terrain ahead is closer than a certain distance) just so that our ace pilots can ignore it for coolness points.
-Name it "Low Blow".

-Right, yes. I envisioned it as a 2-crew thing, though it could be 3. I'll specify 2 crew for now, might change it to 3 later.
-Hmm. All the planes I modeled it on have two engines, but then they are firmly post-war era planes, so probably have more powerful engines available. I'll do some more research.
-Saltseeker weighs 4-7 tons, per Sensei on Discord. Could maybe lift two. I'll mention it as a possibility, but I won't insist on it.
-Oh, don't get me wrong, I'd love to stick variable-geometry wings on this thing. But that'd be 20 years ahead of time, and even then it's a pretty complex technology.
-That's what the second radar is for. I can mention that it beeps, I suppose.
-Is that a reference to a Queen song?

[andrea]

Sensei later confirmed 4 t per saltseeker in discord.

Keep in mind that they are stripped down planes, not light.

[NUKE9.13]

Sensei later confirmed 4 t per saltseeker in discord.

Keep in mind that they are stripped down planes, not light.

Alright, changed it to 2-3 Saltseekers. Also changed back to turbojets, as those are better at very high speeds (which this thing wants to be flying at).

[RAM]

A shop, more-or-more. The first effort at maintaining a Large Operational Nautical Ground from which to stage land-based operations where no land exists. It's primary purpose is to field aircraft, rapidly deploying Heavy bombers or entire formations of jet fighters.
Price: National Effort
Armament:
  800 Garlic turrets, scattered.
  40 240mm downscales and upgrades of the Vodka's covered turrets, scattered.
  12 Noose Missile launchers, 3 each near the heavy guns and bridge.
  4 Saltseeker launchers, evenly spaced, near the sides.
  3 Overcompensator positions, upscaled to 340mm and updated to the latest in aim assistance, 2 at each forward corner and one opposite the bridge.
  2 upgraded Death Ray positions with phased arrays, one ahead of the bridge, the other opposite that.
Storage:
  Sufficient dakka
Armour:
  Deck: Titanium-reinforced bitumen surface over 40cm R.H.A. .
  Sides: 60cm R.H.A. sections backed by 200cm reinforced concrete backed by nice wooden panelling.
  Additional internal armour learned from Cataphract and basic flooding compartments from vodka.
Flight-deck
  Sufficient space and support to launch 4 V.V.F.s simultaneously.
  Rocket-assisted take-off consisting of tunnels, rocket-sleds, and pre-packaged solid-fuel parcels. Upon reaching the end the sleds are retrieved and shuttled back in small vehicles, while new sleds can be loaded into side-tunnels to be moved into position immediately following a previous launch, potentially maintaining multiple assisted-take-offs simultaneously upon a single track.
  Everything that the Z has...
Propulsion:
  Nuclear(experimental)-diesel-electric
  3 80 tonne liquid-rocket-boosters for rapid manoeuvres built into the rear hull.

Considerations:
  Armament numbers are arbitrary, but fun.
  The rescaling and upgrading is all well within tolerances and using established technology, except for the phased arrays, which I want because I am petty.
  Rocket-assisted-take-off has already worked, and our work with managing the issues of massed and large-scale missile-launchers should make overcoming the previous flaws of the system trivial.
  If the nukes don't work, meh, we can just drive into a Canner port and shoot the fuel at something drunk-looking.
  Internal rockets should be stable as dirt, and free experience in stupid-big for later.
  The only big problem is the size, which is, obviously, beyond ridiculous...
  That said, it can be built in a wet dock with the bottom hull pre-built, then the upper sections welded into place, then concrete laid behind that... the water pressure would support the weight and it is allowed to sit low in the water.

[Jilladilla]

Right, time for me to be serious again.

UFAF-SNB-45 'Tubby Duckling' (0):
Microprocessors (0) :
UF-GEV-45 Ekaterina (1) : 10ebbor10
UFN-SS-45 Archer II (3) : Cnidaros, Chiefwaffles, Kashyyk
UFAF-JB-45 Hammer of Forenia (: eS, Happerry, Taricus, Conscript Five, Powder Miner, Parsely, Stabby, Zanzetkuken
UFAF-LAB-45 Dustbiter (9) : NUKE9.13, Wizgrot, Andrea, RAM, Madman, McHuman, NAV, Wolfhunter, Jilladilla
UFAF-HB-45 "Spectre" (0) :
UFAF-HAFB-45 "Iceberg" (1): Kot

[Wizgrot]

Disregarding floatplane memes, I like kot´s design. Offers all that a bomber would and can land on water.

I would suggest pointing out that the UV reflecting paintjob could be applied to other planes and that it could serve as a way to mine lay effectively, as Soviet designs could, which would be another argument for its contruction.

UFAF-SNB-45 'Tubby Duckling' (0):
Microprocessors (0) :
UF-GEV-45 Ekaterina (1) : 10ebbor10
UFN-SS-45 Archer II (3) : Cnidaros, Chiefwaffles, Kashyyk
UFAF-JB-45 Hammer of Forenia (: eS, Happerry, Taricus, Conscript Five, Powder Miner, Parsely, Stabby, Zanzetkuken
UFAF-LAB-45 Dustbiter ( : NUKE9.13, Andrea, RAM, Madman, McHuman, NAV, Wolfhunter, Jilladilla
UFAF-HB-45 "Spectre" (0) :
UFAF-HAFB-45 "Iceberg" (2): Kot, Wizgrot

[NUKE9.13]

UFAF-SNB-45 'Tubby Duckling' (0):
Microprocessors (0) :
UF-GEV-45 Ekaterina (1) : 10ebbor10
UFN-SS-45 Archer II (3) : Cnidaros, Chiefwaffles, Kashyyk
UFAF-JB-45 Hammer of Forenia (8): eS, Happerry, Taricus, Conscript Five, Powder Miner, Parsely, Stabby, Zanzetkuken
UFAF-LAB-45 Dustbiter (7) : Andrea, RAM, Madman, McHuman, NAV, Wolfhunter, Jilladilla
UFAF-HB-45 "Spectre" (0) :
UFAF-HAFB-45 "Iceberg" (3): Kot, Wizgrot, NUKE9.13

With the capacity target lowered slightly, I'm not quite so worried about the Iceberg becoming NE, so I'm willing to vote for it. There are advantages to planes that can land on the water, to be fair. I wouldn't expect it to have quite the same performance as the Dustbiter, but maybe the increased capacity will serve as a compromise with people who want the Hammer. I assume that's why people are voting for the Hammer over the Dustbiter, anyway.

[NAV]

UFAF-SNB-45 'Tubby Duckling' (0):
Microprocessors (0) :
UF-GEV-45 Ekaterina (1) : 10ebbor10
UFN-SS-45 Archer II (3) : Cnidaros, Chiefwaffles, Kashyyk
UFAF-JB-45 Hammer of Forenia (8): eS, Happerry, Taricus, Conscript Five, Powder Miner, Parsely, Stabby, Zanzetkuken
UFAF-LAB-45 Dustbiter (6) : Andrea, RAM, Madman, McHuman, Wolfhunter, Jilladilla
UFAF-HB-45 "Spectre" (0) :
UFAF-HAFB-45 "Iceberg" (4): Kot, Wizgrot, NUKE9.13, NAV

BANDWAGON!

[helmacon]

UFAF-SNB-45 'Tubby Duckling' (0):
Microprocessors (0) :
UF-GEV-45 Ekaterina (1) : 10ebbor10
UFN-SS-45 Archer II (3) : Cnidaros, Chiefwaffles, Kashyyk
UFAF-JB-45 Hammer of Forenia (8): eS, Happerry, Taricus, Conscript Five, Powder Miner, Parsely, Stabby, Zanzetkuken
UFAF-LAB-45 Dustbiter (6) : Andrea, RAM, Madman, McHuman, Wolfhunter, Jilladilla
UFAF-HB-45 "Spectre" (0) :
UFAF-HAFB-45 "Iceberg" (5): Kot, Wizgrot, NUKE9.13, NAV, helmacon

[Kot]

I'd note that any of those designs aren't probably FORCED to go high or low. IIRC, Sensei has said that things are used as effectively as they can be, and it's not like making a plane well suited to one mission automatically disqualifies it from doing another, it will probably just be somewhat worse at it.

[Cnidaros]

Miscellaneous improvements for the Dustbiter
-It's probably implied, but might want to state that it's not a single-pilot deal. Crew should be about 3-5.
-Not sure about how powerful aT-J41 engines are, but I don't think we'll be lifting a multi-ton payload on just two of them. It should be a four-engined aircraft.
-I'm pretty sure that if it has a multi-ton payload, it can lift more than a single Saltseeker. The Saltseeker should be around 2 tonnes, maximum.
-If you're looking for greater lift at low speeds but low drag at high speeds, this thing could use a variable-geometry wing. Or not, since that would be extra complexity.
-Include a ground proximity warning system (could be a beeper that goes off if the terrain ahead is closer than a certain distance) just so that our ace pilots can ignore it for coolness points.
-Name it "Low Blow".

-Right, yes. I envisioned it as a 2-crew thing, though it could be 3. I'll specify 2 crew for now, might change it to 3 later.
-Hmm. All the planes I modeled it on have two engines, but then they are firmly post-war era planes, so probably have more powerful engines available. I'll do some more research.
-Saltseeker weighs 4-7 tons, per Sensei on Discord. Could maybe lift two. I'll mention it as a possibility, but I won't insist on it.
-Oh, don't get me wrong, I'd love to stick variable-geometry wings on this thing. But that'd be 20 years ahead of time, and even then it's a pretty complex technology.
-That's what the second radar is for. I can mention that it beeps, I suppose.
-Is that a reference to a Queen song?

2 crew is a little low considering we don't have advanced avionics to lessen crew workload. Also, I don't know if that's a reference, I just thought it would be a funny name for a low-flying jet bomber.

I think 4 tons for the Saltseeker, compared to its 500kg warhead, is quite bad. We might have to spend a revision or even a design for a better ASM sometime later.

Disregarding floatplane memes, I like kot´s design. Offers all that a bomber would and can land on water.

I would suggest pointing out that the UV reflecting paintjob could be applied to other planes and that it could serve as a way to mine lay effectively, as Soviet designs could, which would be another argument for its contruction.

*coughs* Psst, you know what else can serve as a minelayer? And a super stealthy one to boot? That's right, it's a submarine! Vote U-boat!

Anyway, can the Whalesong be deployed by air? The design proposal said it should be able to, but it was never mentioned whether that succeeded or failed (battle reports don't mention it either).

[NUKE9.13]

2 crew is a little low considering we don't have advanced avionics to lessen crew workload. Also, I don't know if that's a reference, I just thought it would be a funny name for a low-flying jet bomber.

Fair point, I'll increase it to three. And whilst Low Blow might not be a reference, Dustbiter is, whilst also being a fitting name for a plane that intends to stick close to the ground as much as possible.