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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[NUKE9.13]

Indeed, I would support a land-capable plane over the Ekranoplan, but not a soon-to-be-doomed high-altitude bomber. We want something that hugs the ground when over hostile territory, as they are much harder to pick up by radar, and even if detected, much harder to shoot down with SAMs/flak.

[evictedSaint]

...then let's build a helicopter?

[NUKE9.13]

...what are you, Cannalan?
But seriously, I think a helicopter might be harder for us to design than an advanced jet, strange as that sounds. And it doesn't fill the exact same niche as a bomber. The copter lacks range, firepower, and speed.
That said, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to doing one, if others think it's a good idea.

I'm going to try to write up a low-altitude bomber in the next few hours.

[Cnidaros]

I would support a sub nex turn if the jet wins, although probably with a better name.

Any good ideas for names, then? Admittedly 'Archer II' is a bit of a stopgap name.

...what are you, Cannalan?
But seriously, I think a helicopter might be harder for us to design than an advanced jet, strange as that sounds. And it doesn't fill the exact same niche as a bomber. The copter lacks range, firepower, and speed.
That said, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to doing one, if others think it's a good idea.

I'm going to try to write up a low-altitude bomber in the next few hours.

I agree the copter is harder than a jet, but that's only because we've sunk so many actions into jets. But I don't think it's that difficult in an absolute sense (Normal or Hard, but probably not Very Hard as a design). And I think an attack copter would just be walking (or hovering) right into the Cannalan SAM. A heavy-lift transport copter might be better in the jungle for mobility.

And yes, low-altitude bomber is the way to go. During the Cold War, the US bombers mostly shifted to low-attitude penetration because of the rapid advance in Soviet SAM capability, and Cannala is way ahead of OTL in missile tech.

[NAV]

I like Archer II name because of the meme of the Archer I being our first submarine.

[evictedSaint]

Cannalan copters are too low for our SAMs, so it stands to reason our copters would be too low for any Sam's they make

Second, whatever we design should buy is breathing room to work on the nuke.  That means pushing the Jungle AND the ocean; we need to hold Vlanlados for at least one more turn after the first nuke design, and survive losing enough of Tereshkova that they cant steamroll through.

And this is assuming we manage to get the research in 2 turns *and* build the nuke on the third one.

So, the Ekranoplane doesn't help in the jungle, and is vulnerable to many of the same things planes are already.

The Vengeful last turn excelled in the navy by dropping missiles outside of SAM range.  There's nothing limiting the Hammers operational altitude, and it meshes with our air bonus. 

[NUKE9.13]

UFAF-LAB-45 "Dustbiter": We have seen the future, and it is full of missiles. Aircraft must adapt to this new reality, which means that high-altitude flight in combat zones will be a thing of the past, as they are sitting ducks for SAMs up there. If the heights of the skies aren't safe for our planes, then obviously the answer is to have them hug the ground. This is what the Low Altitude Bomber "Dustbiter" does.
The Dustbiter is larger than the VVF, befitting its considerably larger payload and long-range capabilities. The delta-shape wings are relatively small compared to the body- it has a high wing loading, giving better stability at high speeds and low altitudes. For low speed flight and take off/landing, the lift coefficient is improved by blown flaps. Propulsion is provided by two high-power aT-J41 turbojets, designed for maximum speed at low altitudes (although fuel efficiency will be better at high altitudes, meaning a hi-lo-hi mission profile will likely be best).
An internal weapons bay and four hardpoints on the wings can hold several tons of ordnance, including two Saltseeker missiles (possibly even 3). Fuel load can be adjusted, with extra fuel tanks capable of being installed in the weapons bay for longer range missions.
The most important aspect of the Dustbiter is made possible by recent advances in radar technology. It features two radars- a 'conventional' Deadliest Ray radar system designed to track aerial targets, and one that is aimed at the ground in front of the aircraft, ignoring the sky in favour of giving the pilot information on the altitude of upcoming terrain. Whilst it is up to the pilot to act on the information provided, this gives them the ability to 'see' what lies ahead even in inclement weather, letting our highly skilled pilots show off by hugging the ground as close as possible (thereby avoiding radar detection, and blazing past SAM/flak too quick for them to be targeted). The ground radar beeps alarmingly when the terrain ahead is too low, something that test pilots have routinely ignored in favour of doing cool stunts.
The Dustbiter has a 3-man crew; a pilot, co-pilot, and weapon systems operator.
Obviously the standard countermeasures package is built in.

Something like this, ye ken. This is a first draft, so feedback is very welcome.

E: Added a line about countermeasures.
E2: Changed turbojet to turbofan, changed Saltseekers to a Saltseeker.
E3: Changed a Saltseeker to 2 Saltseekers (possibly 3). Adding beeping to ground radar. Specified 2-man crew.
E4: Changed turbofan back to turbojet; turbojets are better at higher speeds, and this thing wants to go as fast as possible
E5: Increased crew to 3.
E6: Mentioned hardpoints on wings. Even if they don't get used, there's no harm in having the option.

[Powder Miner]

This... was a hard choice for me, but looking up the design history of the ekranoplan — and seeing the naval use of the Charlotte mentioned — has convinced me that the bomber might be useful and that the ekranoplan may just be pissing away our design.

UFAF-SNB-45 'Tubby Duckling' (1) : Madman
Microprocessors (0) :
UF-GEV-45 Ekaterina (8) : Andrea, Kot, NAV, RAM, Parsely,Nuke, 10ebbor10, Kashyyk
UFN-SS-45 Archer II (2) : Cnidaros, Chiefwaffles
UFAF-JB-45 Hammer of Forenia (8): Zanzetkuken, eS, Happerry, Jilladilla, Taricus, Conscript Five, Wizgrot, Powder Miner

[Kashyyk]

Why do we need more advantage in the jungle? We have a small arms advantage, a vehicle advantage, a bomber advantage and have shut down their night assaults.

Any extra advantage in the jungle is unneeded.

[Cnidaros]

The naval front is absolutely more important than the jungle right now. We can all but guarantee that Cannala will push there to get a second turn of Uranium. And we need to push them off Forenia to diversify our fronts. Also, they currently have Naval Advantage right now, and I was honestly surprised they didn't take Vlanlados.

This... was a hard choice for me, but looking up the design history of the ekranoplan — and seeing the naval use of the Charlotte mentioned — has convinced me that the bomber might be useful and that the ekranoplan may just be pissing away our design.

Again, the high-altitude bomber is just asking for a Cannalan SAM to the face. Or any one of the numerous AAMs that they already have. It's pattern recognition: we build an ASM, they build a better one. We build a SAM, they're going to build a better one. If you want a bomber, go for the low-altitude one.

^{or vote for sub please}

[NUKE9.13]

UFAF-SNB-45 'Tubby Duckling' (1) : Madman
Microprocessors (0) :
UF-GEV-45 Ekaterina (7) : Andrea, Kot, NAV, RAM, Parsely, 10ebbor10, Kashyyk
UFN-SS-45 Archer II (2) : Cnidaros, Chiefwaffles
UFAF-JB-45 Hammer of Forenia (8): Zanzetkuken, eS, Happerry, Jilladilla, Taricus, Conscript Five, Wizgrot, Powder Miner
UFAF-LAB-45 Dustbiter (1) : NUKE9.13

Well, I'm still open to suggestions for improvements, but I guess I should put my money where my mouth is and vote for the Dustbiter.

[Wizgrot]

I would ask for UV reflecting paint that could be used in other planes. While I don´t feel it would nullify their UV sensors entirely, it will at least reduce their effectivity, which would increase with the size of an object (and a bomber is big). If it can also use Dolphin torpedoes, it is fine for me.

UFAF-SNB-45 'Tubby Duckling' (1) : Madman
Microprocessors (0) :
UF-GEV-45 Ekaterina (7) : Andrea, Kot, NAV, RAM, Parsely, 10ebbor10, Kashyyk
UFN-SS-45 Archer II (2) : Cnidaros, Chiefwaffles
UFAF-JB-45 Hammer of Forenia (8): Zanzetkuken, eS, Happerry, Jilladilla, Taricus, Conscript Five, Powder Miner
UFAF-LAB-45 Dustbiter (2) : NUKE9.13, Wizgrot

[NUKE9.13]

The paint I deliberately left out, cos I feel that'd be an extra complication on an already fairly complex design. I could add it if there's a big demand.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Why do we need more advantage in the jungle? We have a small arms advantage, a vehicle advantage, a bomber advantage and have shut down their night assaults.

Any extra advantage in the jungle is unneeded.

Bomber advantage?  Are you high?  In what way is our bomber better?

[Wizgrot]

I don´t feel like the design is overtly complex, since we are not introducing any new technology and I believe it would be worthwhile, if only to further to conslidate our dominion of the air.