Yeah. This is why we get an Ekranoplane instead of a submarine, which is a really insanely hard thing to make.
I'd like the Hammer of Forenia more if it had some special things about it, and I'm still really fucking not convinced UV paint is going to do anything for a plane for the cost of added difficulty, while on Ekranoplane it'd probably be a considerable help.
Lun-class Ekranoplan: built 1987
Type VIIC U-boat: built 1940
How exactly is a submarine "insanely hard" while the ekranoplane isn't?
It's not only about date in history. Ekranoplanes exist, ground effect is widely known, we have way more experience with plane-like creations.
We have absolutely no fucking idea how to make submarines, and our experience in making ships is eh. I see the Ekranoplane still working on a bad roll, but the submarine on a bad roll is just a wasted design. If we were Cannalans, sure, they know how to make ships (and apparently planes, because they have everything), but you know.
The Soviet Union built the Lun-class after
decades of experimenting with ekranoplanes and other ground-effect vehicles, and they weren't exactly slouches at the whole aircraft design thing either. And we already have passive sonar and diesel engines, so all that's left is to make the submarine hull and active sonar.
I would vote for the sub if it was armed with ASMs instead of torpedoes. Unguided torpedoes are super inaccurate and therefore ineffective, submerging is useless if you can't exploit the surprise and it would take many revision investments to make them good. If the design roll is good we'll be able to use the revision to improve ASMs (which also helps our surface vessels and missile development in general is good) and make them underwater launch capable.
Archer II is not ambitious enough and won't have an impact, Ekranoplane is overambitious and far too niche but at least entertaining.
On one side, people are saying the Archer is super hard, on the other people are saying it's too easy. I take it that that means it's a reasonable level. Also, unguided torpedoes are super inaccurate and therefore ineffective? I suppose WWII Britain had absolutely nothing to fear from those German u-boats then, must have been all exaggeration. Guess things like "leading your target" and trigonometry also don't exist in this universe either? FYI most of the Battle of the Atlantic was fought with unguided torpedoes. Plus, the Dolphins have magnetic detonators, which can turn a near miss into a hit.
I am afraid making a sub will do exactly that... and open a new can of worms, where we will be forced to spend a lot of designs on it to keep up with Cannalans, only to lose out anyway because >Cannalans and >ship-making experience, since that's APPARENTLY A LOT HARDER FOR US THAN FOR CANNALANS TO MAKE PLANES BUT OH WELL (remember the goddamn lander), and then be forever butt-blasted by their superior submarines.
Again,
the Cannalans have literally nothing to counter a sub right now. We make it, we'll run rampant on the seas for next turn to land on the Plains. We have an
advantage over them in sub-building because we already have passive sonar from the mine design. Also, quit salting up the thread over imagined Cannalan advantages/GM Bias, thanks. As noted by Kashyyk, the Cannalans have a bonus to sea combat, not inherently to ship design.
Continued Arguments for the Archer II:-
The Cannalans have nothing to counter it. I can't stress this enough. They have no means to detect a submerged sub, much less attack it. It's invulnerable to SAMs/ASMs. Instead of betting on whether our countermeasures will shoot down 10% or 90% of Cannalan missiles, let's just make it 100% by making a submarine. I don't believe the Ekaterina will be absolutely immune to missiles, no matter how many turrets you put on it.
-
Metagaming. When we roll out the Archer II submarines, Cannala has to spend a design/revision to counter it. Best case is they spend a design on active sonar, worst case is they spend a revision on depth charges. Either way,
whatever they develop to counter a torpedo sub will be ineffective against a missile sub, which operates at standoff ranges. End result, we have a good missile sub and sub experience, they've wasted an action on countering attack subs.
--And if they don't do that next turn, we have a double advantage of both missile+torpedo subs resulting in a solid Naval Advantage for keeping them off Vlanlados/reconquering the central lane.
-
Introducing new elements is better than slight improvements on old ones. The Cannalans spent multiple designs/revisions on the MAGIC missiles, and it's paid off. They spent multiple designs/revisions on the Aswang, and it paid off. We have an opportunity to blindside Cannala by introducing a sub, and this could be the one area of naval design where
we have the advantage.
Poll
17 (16%)
Author
Topic: Intercontinental Arms Race: Finale (Read 599960 times)