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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Taricus]

I'd rather go for a more dependable medium tank first, if anything. Something equivalent to the Panther would be enough to tell the Cannalans that we're having bullsteak for dinner

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I'd rather go for a more dependable medium tank first, if anything. Something equivalent to the Panther would be enough to tell the Cannalans that we're having bullsteak for dinner

More dependable?  The T33's already got the same armament and armor, with a slightly faster speed, as a Panzer IV.  Unless there is something I missed in the recent turns, I think we're good for Medium Tanks.

[Taricus]

Getting a medium tank that can reliably beat their bull whilst still being cheaper would be great; and does more to future-proof our armour superiority than an oversized tank destroyer does.

[NAV]

For a tank destroyer I think we should make a sort of sniper tank, with a not too large but incredibly high velocity cannon, low profile, and good optics. Doesn't need to have that much armour.

[Taricus]

Or we could, again, just build a proper tank that can do that thinks to good optics and a high-velocity cannon? Low profile isn't going to be viable right now given the cannalan advantage in that area (And we still need the cannon to be manoeuvrable to a good degree too)

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Getting a medium tank that can reliably beat their bull whilst still being cheaper would be great; and does more to future-proof our armour superiority than an oversized tank destroyer does.

No, that would be a 'perfect' situation, and one I do not see as likely to happen.  Perfect never happens.  We are better off with matching price category while being far stronger, as I view that as the far likelier end state.  And really, even if the Bull goes down in price to Expensive, this will still be a bitch to take down, especially when supported by T33s.

[Madman198237]

Let me put it this way: The Jagdtiger was a horrible vehicle.

It did EVERYTHING required of it because it was freaking beastly. It could shoot end-to-end through any Allied tank in service, had so much armor that shooting it was an exercise in futility, yet was terrible.

Because it was literally bigger than the sides of some small barns.


If you want a tank destroyer, well, then you want a small armored vehicle with a high-velocity main gun capable of firing sabot and HEAT rounds with a VERY small profile so it can hide. Basically, a tank destroyer is an ambush tank. Also, we should just make it a tank, because there's a good reason they stopped producing tank destroyers----they realized that they were literally doing what tanks were supposed to do. That being, of course, killing other tanks.

[NAV]

But a proper tank will probably be one difficulty level higher and one price level higher than a comparable TD, and our current TD is much more outdated. So we would benefit more from making a new TD.

How is low profile not viable right now?

Edit: they only stopped making tank destroyers because the opponents started being guerrillas with no tanks.

[Madman198237]

Why?*

EDIT:
*Will a proper tank be more difficult and more expensive.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Let me put it this way: The Jagdtiger was a horrible vehicle.

It did EVERYTHING required of it because it was freaking beastly. It could shoot end-to-end through any Allied tank in service, had so much armor that shooting it was an exercise in futility, yet was terrible.

Because it was literally bigger than the sides of some small barns.


If you want a tank destroyer, well, then you want a small armored vehicle with a high-velocity main gun capable of firing sabot and HEAT rounds with a VERY small profile so it can hide. Basically, a tank destroyer is an ambush tank. Also, we should just make it a tank, because there's a good reason they stopped producing tank destroyers----they realized that they were literally doing what tanks were supposed to do. That being, of course, killing other tanks.

Honestly, we could probably reclassify what I put up as a Heavy Tank instead.  All of its armor is basically just a +1 armor level compared to the T33, a medium tank, with exception to the turret, that is.  That's just a bit more heavily armored.

[Madman198237]

But a proper tank will probably be one difficulty level higher and one price level higher than a comparable TD, and our current TD is much more outdated. So we would benefit more from making a new TD.

How is low profile not viable right now?

Edit: they only stopped making tank destroyers because the opponents started being guerrillas with no tanks.

Actually not.

Tank Destroyers got stopped at the end of WWII. There were still regular wars with tanks (Korean War especially), and thus, if they were necessary, for tank destroyers. But instead, the US deployed tanks, and only tanks. And the Koreans and Chinese, as far as I know, deployed only tanks.

Although, my information is VERY spotty, so I could easily be wrong.

[NAV]

Why?*

EDIT:
*Will a proper tank be more difficult and more expensive.

Because it needs a big heavy rotating turret to hold its big cannon. That means it has a higher profile, so it's a bigger and more visible target, so it needs thicker armour. Because of all that extra weight it needs more motor, transmission, suspension, etc. So it is much more complex and expensive overall.

Tanks are much better on the offensive than tank destroyers, they are made for breaking through lines. They are equal at defending though. Seeing as we don't have a way to land with tanks, a tank destroyer would be the better option.

The best way to go about it would probably be to base it on the as-t33 chassis, like how our current one was based on the as-t25.

[Madman198237]

Yes, you do lose the turret. You also lose some height, yeah. In fact it allows you to easier mount a larger gun, however it does preclude the TD from participating in much more than sniping and ambusher roles, not that anything else is really necessary.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Here's a modified version of the Apocalpyse:

UF-HT-41 "Apocalypse"
A Heavy Tank, this monster utilizes a V12 diesel engine, taken from the Haast and converted to diesel, to move the tank's large bulk.  It uses a 110mm gun with an autoloader as its primary armament mounted within a electronic traverse turret, with a desired minimum firing speed of ten rounds per minute and is also armed with a coaxial mounted AS-AC18 and a pintle mounted M3 Sorraia.  The turret is armored with 160mm of sloped Rolled Homogenous Armor, and while the main body is not armored to the same degree, it's frontal hull is still armored with 140mm sloped RHA, has 80mm of armor upon the sides and rear hull, and has 40mm of armor in armored skirts protecting the base of the turret and the treads.


Oh, and here's a 'fuck it, why not'/'spirit of dwarf fortress' revision:

UF-FT-41 "Koganusan"
A modification to the Apocalpyse tank, replacing its main gun with the Jet Engine of a Thunderbird modified to spray out flamethrower fuel, to be ignited by the AC18 armed with Incendiary rounds.

[Madman198237]

Make the Apocalypse have spaced armor and I'd definitely consider it.