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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Taricus]

The cheap tank is outclasses by the T33 and the T2 breaker. Simply put it's not a concern. More importantly our new coastal guns will significantly complicate any landing efforts on our shores.

[10ebbor10]

They'll also get the Bull down to expensive, which is the tank that has been wrecking all our stuff in the plains, and whose Jungle combat description says.

While the Bull is seen as a symbol of Cannalan might, it is few enough in number and some of its advantages are mitigated by the lack of long ranges or open space, that Cannala doesn't completely dominate armored warfare- still, it's better than just having the Armadillo.

Oh, and the turn before those heavy tanks were introduced, the Jungle description said :

With the benefit of good artillery and air support, and armor which is only somewhat behind the Cannalans (even without their expense credit, Cannala's armor does a good job, but if only those Raider RPGs could be easily reloaded in combat, or had a longer range).

We're going to be facing 2 Cannalan designs and 2 Cannalan revisions. If we spend our design on a naval cruiser, we will not be able to stop them.

[Azzuro]

0 (RAM)Phased Death Ray radar:
0 (RAM)"P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 (RAM)Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
0 (RAM)Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat:
3 (10ebbor10)aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles
7 (Light forger+andrea)Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Andrea, SMMI, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Taricus, Stabby, Azzuro
0 (RAM)Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 ():
0 ():

We should focus entirely on getting the jet engine un-[Complex]ed. After all, the Cannalans spent the entire revision on that alone, no?

Also, RAM, you can call 'freedom of expression', but if you give your designs joke names expect people to treat them as joke designs no matter how good they may be.

[10ebbor10]

We should focus entirely on getting the jet engine un-[Complex]ed. After all, the Cannalans spent the entire revision on that alone, no?

Nope.

They got their jet fighter with a more powerful engine than ours in a single design, then revised their carrier to be more or less equal to our newest Z-class.

Edit : They did have to revise their tank's turbine engine, but they combined that with watercooling.

[Chiefwaffles]

Are people seriously voting to just decomplexify the jet engine?
That's such a waste of a revision. Agree or not with Ebbor's revision, but it's not horrifically unambitious. Just decomplexifying the jet engine will continue the same exact problem we're having. Best case scenario, our jet is cheaper than theirs for one turn, then they upgrade their jet with an actual revision like they've been doing before and now suddenly their jet is straight-up better than ours and at the same price. Worst case (and more likely) scenario is that they do that this turn and their jet is superior to ours this combat phase.

If there's one thing we need to not be doing right now, it's taking unnecessary baby steps.

[10ebbor10]

Their jet is already cheaper, so the best case is that we'll be equal for 1 turn.

[Kashyyk]

0 (RAM)Phased Death Ray radar:
0 (RAM)"P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 (RAM)Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
1 (RAM)Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat: Kashyyk
3 (10ebbor10)aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles
7 (Light forger+andrea)Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Andrea, SMMI, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Taricus, Stabby, Azzuro
0 (RAM)Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 ():
0 ():

[andrea]

I don't like the fact that it focuses on adding resources and new alloys, that sounds dangerous from an expense point of view. Especially the new chrome alloy. What if the chrome alloy translates to more ore cost?

I would prefer to have a revision focusing on techniques and designs and machinery, which can all the same reduce complexity and icnrease quality, but is, I feel, safer both from a complexity point of view and from an expense point of view.

edit: or if we put focus absolutely on it being more powerful... at least can we agree to get a jet bomber/cargo next turn in case we fail to decomplexify?
A cargo would give another chance  to make them simple, plus it would give us the TC we need to lower thunderbird expense.

[Taricus]

Are people seriously voting to just decomplexify the jet engine?
That's such a waste of a revision. Agree or not with Ebbor's revision, but it's not horrifically unambitious. Just decomplexifying the jet engine will continue the same exact problem we're having. Best case scenario, our jet is cheaper than theirs for one turn, then they upgrade their jet with an actual revision like they've been doing before and now suddenly their jet is straight-up better than ours and at the same price. Worst case (and more likely) scenario is that they do that this turn and their jet is superior to ours this combat phase.

If there's one thing we need to not be doing right now, it's taking unnecessary baby steps.

It's unlikely they'll be developing a jet; they'll need better infantry equipment for both the jungle and the mountains.

[10ebbor10]

They might have, but they may also have decided to try to wrest the skies from us.

Besides, their armor advantage is already present in the Jungle, and may help in the mountains as well.

Edit: Looked it up, wasn't enough in the mountains.

[andrea]

I doubt armor advantage will be THAT effective in mountains.
more liekly they can get a foothold in our home jungle.

[Taricus]

The foothold they would not be able to establish thanks to our new coastal guns (And Forenia effectively being an armed camp in it's entirety)

[NUKE9.13]

Alright, alright. How about a compromise? I still think the most important thing is de-[Complex]-ifying the engines, but I guess we can do some minor performance boosts at the same time. How about this:

aT-J05: After an extensive and heated debate, our jet-engine designers finally settled on a design focusing primarily on ease of manufacture, but also making some minor performance enhancements. The aT-J05 has been reworked such that it can be manufactured easily, with many parts requiring (relatively) unskilled labour and simple machining tools, and the construction made simpler so that the finished product can be put together faster. At the same time, performance is enhanced by replacing the combustor with a new annular version, which is lighter and more efficient than the can combustor previously used.

I went for a better combustor rather than better alloys, since the last revision to the engines focused on alloys, and we rolled fairly well. As such, I believe there is less to gain by improving them.
I am convinced that this will increase the difficulty, but less risk means less reward, I suppose.

[10ebbor10]

I'm pretty sure that that would be harder than both proposals currently on the table. Mine offsets the difficulty by allowing the use of Manganese and aluminum.

[NUKE9.13]

I'm pretty sure that that would be harder than both proposals currently on the table. Mine offsets the difficulty by allowing the use of Manganese and aluminum.

I think if using manganese and aluminium was important, we would've used them the last time we improved the alloys.
And yes, it would be harder. I said as much. But de-[Complex]-ifying is the most important thing. If you also want performance improvements, it's going to be harder.