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Which team did you play in the last game?

Glorious Arstotzka
- 17 (16%)
Glorious Moskurg
- 13 (12.3%)
Ingloriously Didn't Play
- 76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106


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Author Topic: Intercontinental Arms Race: Finale  (Read 592302 times)

RAM

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3510 on: June 08, 2017, 04:37:42 am »

You sure you've submitted enough designs there, RAM?
I mean, suggesting a whole bunch of designs is fine. But adding them to the list before someone has voted for them is maybe not such a great idea?
Also, just a friendly word of advice, but I suspect people might be more inclined to vote for your ideas if you toned down the 'lolrandumb' a little bit.
...
EDIT: Also, for those saying spending a revision just to de-[Complex] is a waste: whilst it may be possible to combine it with something else, by focusing on it we guarantee a lower difficulty. Occasions in the past where an unrelated revision resulted in the [Complex] tag being dropped probably involved good rolls, I'm guessing.
Starting by singling someone out and referring to their activities in a sarcastic fashion is, well, playful fun could be confused for idle dismissiveness.
 "friendly word of advice" is generalyl used in a condescending fashion. I appreciate the advice but feel that it is irrelevant as I am here to have fun and that involves a certain amount of free expression.
 "lolrandom" is plenty expressive to get your point across. Adding "dumb" is, perhaps, pushing it a bit too far.
 All this combined, the logical interpretation is an expression that I should desist from expressing myself because I do not meet your specific standards, which would be a bit too close to a personal attack to fall within polite behaviour, but one of the advantages of being gullible and insanely living in my own tiny little imaginary world is that I can see the possibility of things being nice when perhaps that is unlikely. Still, it might be of benefit to be a bit more restrained when singling out a single person's behaviour in future. It is easy to start arguments that way and I don't think that to be desireable.

 I feel that it is someone wasteful to vote for one's own design. Which leaves me with the problem of being unable to add my own designs to a list which requires votes to be added. And removing items from the list for losing all their votes is extremely toxic to the voting process and should never be considered unless the matter reaches an extreme problem, such as a full couple of dozen items making it difficult to see them all. But it is more of a problem to have vague descriptions that don't inform, such as a string of abbreviations that someone would have to look up to understand, followed by an appropriate but ultimately ambiguous name. Also, each person only has the one vote, unless people are just not bothering to adhere to that... Which means that a single person cannot produce more than one proposal, which would be fine if propsals were evenly distributed, but somethimes one person has more than one idea which seems pretty decent, so the whole "not spot with zero votes" idea seems completely inappropriate to me.

I feel that it is worth focusing on it but not exclusively. Just gaining experience(and thus familiarity) with the technology should be sufficient to remove the complexity. A normal difficulty revision with a prominant engine focus should be plenty to guarantee a loss of complexity. I mean, a get engine is basically just some turbines with a burner in them. I hazard a guess that radar is plenty complex enough to stump us hoplelessly if we lacked experience in the matter. I would also rather like to wait until 41 to remove the complex tag. It makes things difficult for a while, but we would be doing other things in the mean0time and the greater familiarity with the technology would make the adjustments largely trivial. We have already had the jet out for, what? Half a year? It should be pretty easy to figure out where the heat buildups are and what materials are failing from all the worn engines that we have gathered. I think that only removing complexity is massively underestimating our abilities. And one of the most important aspects of this game is accurately judging what you can get away with so that you do not waste an action on something too ambitious or too weak. The enemy just revised a brand new steam catapult and unprecedented redesign and reshaping of their carrier's deck. I am pretty sure that we can pull off a full revision of tweaking the bugs off of our older jet fighter and still lose the complexity considering that the bugs that we need to tweak are mostly centred around the engine.

So I appreciate the sentiment that we don't want to take a risk. I do, however, feel confident that a revision whose primary focus is removing the complexity and adds other things merely as a possible afterthought after the big job of taking off the complexity is done would be too meek of a revision to justify the action expenditure.
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

Sheb

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3511 on: June 08, 2017, 04:45:53 am »

Yeah, I think a general engine revision to increase perfomance is the best. And I think 10ebbor10's is the best way to go about it. He has my vote.

Quote
0 (RAM)Phased Death Ray radar:
0 (RAM)"P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
0 (RAM)Bouncing Beans booster rockets:
0 (RAM)Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat:
1 (10ebbor10)aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb
3 (Light forger+andrea)Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Andrea, SMMI, NUKE9.13
0 (RAM)Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 ():
0 ():


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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

RAM

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3512 on: June 08, 2017, 05:00:58 am »

Can someone just check what exactly it would mean to have expenses on a component part? We currently have 2 engines, if every engine eats a full mang and al then we could be in trouble. I assume that it is less than a full usage and will probably just force the materials into the design's cost but not actually represent a full unit by themselves. But it could also add a full 2 ore for every engine if things go really bad. A bit of clarification on what these material costs would actualyl mean would just be really nice.

Also, all of my designs are deemed beneficial. Some may be a bit ambitious for a single action, some may be inapropriate for the moment, and most are... eccentric, but I do believe that all of them fall within the bounds of the loose physics that the game allows and that all of them would be beneficial in their own way. As to the naming sense? Well, that is just a matter of expression and political freedom. I do hope that all the people who feel that deviation from acceptable aesthetics also vote against deviating from acceptable political affiliations... I mean, it is not as though I am advocating against armaments, rocketry, or warfare...
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

andrea

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3513 on: June 08, 2017, 05:04:26 am »

I think ebbor's proposal should be interpreted as  adding that cost to the thunderbrid design/ designs that use the jet engine, not an unit of Al or Mn for each engine. That would be crazy.

10ebbor10

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3514 on: June 08, 2017, 05:06:26 am »

Yeah, cost added to the planes that use the engine, not per engine.

That would somewhat silly.

I'll reword my design to make all that clear.
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piratejoe

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3515 on: June 08, 2017, 05:09:18 am »

Quote
0 (RAM)Phased Death Ray radar:
0 (RAM)"P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
0 (RAM)Bouncing Beans booster rockets:
0 (RAM)Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat:
1 (10ebbor10)aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb
4 (Light forger+andrea)Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Andrea, SMMI, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe
0 (RAM)Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 ():
0 ():
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Battleships Hurl insults from behind thick walls, Destroyers beat up small children, Carriers stay back in the kitchen, and Cruisers are a bunch of tryhards who pretend to be loners.

Taricus

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3516 on: June 08, 2017, 05:11:31 am »

Cheaper jets is the way to victory!

Quote
0 (RAM)Phased Death Ray radar:
0 (RAM)"P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
0 (RAM)Bouncing Beans booster rockets:
0 (RAM)Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat:
1 (10ebbor10)aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb
5 (Light forger+andrea)Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Andrea, SMMI, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Taricus
0 (RAM)Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 ():
0 ():
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Quote from: evictedSaint
We sided with the holocaust for a fucking +1 roll

10ebbor10

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3517 on: June 08, 2017, 05:15:16 am »

Quote
0 (RAM)Phased Death Ray radar:
0 (RAM)"P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
0 (RAM)Bouncing Beans booster rockets:
0 (RAM)Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat:
2 (10ebbor10)aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10
5 (Light forger+andrea)Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Andrea, SMMI, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Taricus
0 (RAM)Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 ():
0 ():

Cheaper + Better Jet is the way to victory.

We should not endeavour to perpetually stay 1 step behind the Cannalan's.
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Sheb

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3518 on: June 08, 2017, 05:18:53 am »

Quote
0 (RAM)Phased Death Ray radar:
0 (RAM)"P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
0 (RAM)Bouncing Beans booster rockets:
0 (RAM)Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat:
2 (10ebbor10)aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10
5 (Light forger+andrea)Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Andrea, SMMI, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Taricus
0 (RAM)Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 ():
0 ():

Cheaper + Better Jet is the way to victory.

We should not endeavour to perpetually stay 1 step behind the Cannalan's.

Hear! Hear!

This defeatism smell of traitor.
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3519 on: June 08, 2017, 05:25:32 am »

Quote
0 (RAM)Phased Death Ray radar:
0 (RAM)"P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
0 (RAM)Bouncing Beans booster rockets:
0 (RAM)Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat:
3 (10ebbor10)aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles
5 (Light forger+andrea)Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Andrea, SMMI, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Taricus
0 (RAM)Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 ():
0 ():
Logged
Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

10ebbor10

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3520 on: June 08, 2017, 05:26:38 am »

It's not defeatism.

It's a call to action, rather than a vote for stagnation.

Quote
Despite carrying more weight, it's very nearly as fast as the Thunderbird

We know that the enemy Jet engine is of equal or greater power to ours, as it allows their plane to nearly match ours in velocity.

That means that if we wish to reestablish our aerial dominance, we need better and cheaper engines.
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Sheb

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3521 on: June 08, 2017, 05:31:33 am »

Oh, the defeatists are those not voting for your proposol.
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

10ebbor10

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3522 on: June 08, 2017, 05:32:37 am »

Whoops.

Major Communication failure there.
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Taricus

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3523 on: June 08, 2017, 05:59:41 am »

We can't get better AND cheaper in one go. And better typically means more expensive. Numerical superiority is a quality of it's own, and one we should strive to have.
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Quote from: evictedSaint
We sided with the holocaust for a fucking +1 roll

NAV

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3524 on: June 08, 2017, 06:01:16 am »

Quote
0 (RAM)Phased Death Ray radar:
0 (RAM)"P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 (RAM)Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
0 (RAM)Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat:
3 (10ebbor10)aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles
5 (Light forger+andrea)Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Andrea, SMMI, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Taricus
0 (RAM)Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 ():
0 ():

I know the jet engine decomplexing will win. I would vote for it if that wasn't certain. For today though, I am showing support for one of RAM's ideas.
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Highmax…dead, flesh torn from him, though his skill with the sword was unmatched…military…Nearly destroyed .. Rhunorah... dead... Mastahcheese returns...dead. Gaul...alive, still locked in combat. NAV...Alive, drinking booze....
The face on the toaster does not look like one of mercy.
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