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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[NUKE9.13]

So, question. The Haast looks good and all, but... is it expensive enough? Are we not just making a replacement for the Stinger? I mean, we want this thing to cost 5/4, right?

[Chiefwaffles]

I actually agree there. Personally I think we should be a bit more ambitious - make that research credit worth it and a new expensive fighter.
I would try to come up with something but I'm really only non-awful at designs when they're less based off of the real world.

[evictedSaint]

It has a manganese alloy bathtub and is made out of aluminum.  Supercharged engine, folding wings, aerodynamic as hell, multirole as a torpedo plane and a fighter.  4x20 mm's and 2x7.62 mm's in the nose.  I suppose if we want to jack the expense up, we can cram more tech into the engine, because at this point I'm not sure what else expense we can sneak out of it...


Edit:that being said, what's wrong with it being cheap?

[NUKE9.13]

Edit:that being said, what's wrong with it being cheap?

We already have a decent cheap fighter. What we need is a really good fighter, that is better in every way to the Stinger, except in cost. Something for our aces to fly, which can easily take down puny Cannalan planes.
Our doctrine of Cheap=Good can only take us so far.
...also, Sensei pretty blatantly said that we should make a more expensive fighter in the update.

[RAM]

Can we try for a new 18 cylinder super-charged radial air-cooled fuel-inhected engine? Maybe sneak in a touch of air-compression to help with the cooling...

[Khan Boyzitbig]

I'm going to put forward my tank again, if we get its gun we can mount them on our destroyers too and we could try and revise a fighter into a better one.

4 UFAF-F39 'Haast':
    3 Using a research credit: Lightforger, evictedSaint, Powder Miner
    1 Without using a research credit: Piratejoe
0 The UF-SHB-39 Ice Giant:
1 UF-F-39 "Yastreb"(Using a research credit): Mulisa
1 UF-MA-Ta/Fa "Cacophonous Pseudonym": RAM
1 UF-HAT-39-A "Vanguard": Khan Boyzitbig

[Strongpoint]

This turn went just like I expected and this the reason why I wanted a damn fighter last turn (I expected them going jet... but their own radar+aircraft revision is close enough). Now we lost the initiative. At least we didn't go for a lander, then situation would be even worse. Still having a fighter+useful revision revision+old primitive radar would be so much better

Going fighter-bomber now is pointless. We lost the skies while we may regain a slight advantage we will likely still lose in the desert because they will design something for the land warfare and just push with that. Losing Desert oil is gg. We need to do something to extract value from the last terrible revision and something that works very well in desert. This means a tank.

UF-T38
UF-T38 is the next generation Florenia tank. Based on a successful AS-T33 it hosts a more power diesel engine, even larger 85mm gun and thicker armor. Additionally, it has an optional package of reactive armour protecting it vital areas against enemy heat rounds.

Simple, practical, deadly (122mm gun is great overkill)

If we want an aircraft I strongly prefer my design that is more fighter, less bomber, based on what we already have, goes for the new engine, can actually launch from our small carriers and don't try to copypast performance of 1944 year aircraft

UFAF-FB-39 "Predator"
This new aircraft is based on an old Moskurk Yellowjacket design and looks rather similar but it benefits tremendously from applying Arstotzka's engineering solutions and war experience. It incorporates all the improvements designed for Stinger as well as reliability solutions tested on Reckless effort. It is better armed going from six Sorraria to 2 AC-18s in the wings and 2 Sorrarias in the nose scheme that proved its effectiveness on Stinger.

It is slightly wider and significantly shorter  Yellowjacket because it's V10 engine is replaced by a new very powerful twin row fourteen cylinder radial engine coming with all usual advancement seen on Florenian aviation engines. Another important upgrade is a pair of three blade contra-rotating propellers that were not inspired by observed wrecks of Cannalan's fighter

F-39s frame has undergone numerous tests in the wind tunnel resulting in more efficient shape of its wings and tail. While aircraft is optimized for low-attitude performance, it is capable to defend itself on higher attitudes. Needless to say that it is capable to be launched from Wasp Nests

Unlike Yellowjacket, Predator is developed with a fighter-bomber role in mind. It is capable to carry 250kg of bombs, has decent anti-ground armor and carries many 20mm rounds for strafing runs against targets like Buccaneer boats, artillery pieces and light enemy vehicles

[andrea]

Had we tried to design a fighter last turn... nothing would have changed because we got 2, 2.

Your fighter is nice... but I am not sure it is expensive enough. We don't need cheap.
Also, why is it based on the yellowjacket?

Next turn we are still fighting deep in the jungle, we are not losing the desert yet.

And finally, we are Forenia not Florenia.

[NUKE9.13]

Where do you get the idea we're fighting in the Desert this turn? We haven't been pushed out of the Jungle yet.

That fighter looks even cheaper than the other proposal.

I don't think we need a bigger tank right now. Our tanks outmatch theirs. Our armour problem lies in our lack of a light, agile vehicle capable of countering their Raiders.

[Azzuro]

No, guys, multirole planes are Bad with a capital B. From the dawn of flight, when a bunch of officers saw an aeroplane and asked:
"Can we spy on the enemy with it?"
"Can we drop shells on the enemy with it?"
"Can we shoot enemy planes with it?"
"Can we shoot the enemy with it?"
and some massive idiot, whose name is unfortunately lost to history, piped up with
"Why not do all those things at once?"
multirole planes have nearly always been doomed to be subpar in both of their roles. Even up until today, when planes taken millions of man-hours to design and build and test, some planes make it all the way to production without people realising "why not we make two good planes, instead of one expensive and average one?"


UFAF-F-39 "Hornet"
The Hornet is the latest and most advanced fighter in United Forenia's Air Force, built with experience from the high-speed Glorious racecar. A supercharged water-cooled V12 engine with fuel injection provides immense thrust, which in conjunction with a sleek, semi-monocoque steel-aluminium fuselage and elliptical wing planform gives it breathtaking speed. Servo and trim tabs on its control surfaces, from our aerodynamics research, allow it to out-manoeuvre enemy fighters even at these high speeds. Self-sealing fuel tanks in the wings provide some measure of resilience, while a manganese-alloy armour shell around the cockpit helps to enhance pilot survivability. For weapons, it carries four AS-AC18 autocannons on the wing and a single Sorraia machinegun on the nose. From our previous fighter the HF-32b, radio, retractable landing gear, pressurised cockpit and an improved oxygen system are installed. Finally, foldable wings and reinforced landing gear for catapult launch and arrestor recovery allow it to be deployed on our carriers in greater numbers as well, with optional drop tanks on underwing mounts for very-long range missions.

...needless to say, target cost is Expensive due to the very good engine. Maybe 3/4 Ore (2 Al 1 Mn) 4 oil, with optional +1 oil for the drop tanks version.

4 UFAF-F39 'Haast':
    3 Using a research credit: Lightforger, evictedSaint, Powder Miner
    1 Without using a research credit: Piratejoe
0 The UF-SHB-39 Ice Giant:
1 UF-F-39 "Yastreb"(Using a research credit): Mulisa
1 UF-MA-Ta/Fa "Cacophonous Pseudonym": RAM
1 UF-HAT-39-A "Vanguard": Khan Boyzitbig
1 UFAF-F-39 "Hornet": Azzuro

[Strongpoint]

Replace V-12 with 14 cylinder two row radial engine and you have my vote for UFAF-F-39 "Hornet"  And make it use 4 oil (better 5) because we want a powerful engine.

Had we tried to design a fighter last turn... nothing would have changed because we got 2, 2.

Your fighter is nice... but I am not sure it is expensive enough. We don't need cheap.
Also, why is it based on the yellowjacket?

Next turn we are still fighting deep in the jungle, we are not losing the desert yet.

And finally, we are Forenia not Florenia.

Oh, I forgot to copy past the cost. The whole idea of the fighter is a very powerful engine.  And using Yellowjacket is mostly a roleplay. It is logical to base existing designs on older ones and Yellowjacket was a nice fighter.

We always need to be ready for the worst scenario and prepare for defending the desert. It doesn't matter that we may start battling there next turn or even never. That oil is a key for our army.

[evictedSaint]

Well, if we go with the Haast, we can add fuel drop tanks for an extra oil.  It's just like the Yellowjacket, which was a perfectly fine fighter that could also drop bombs.  If it's anything to go by, we wont be penalized for adding bombing capabilities.  Its main role is a fighter, after all - the ability to bomb is an afterthought.

What if we also added air brakes?  That might be a neat, cheap way to boost the expense and add capability.

[NAV]

War Tigers

Forenian Tigers have been trained for battle and form a strong bond with a single soldier. They have been equipped with a modified suit of Tiger Armour that fits a tiger and provides full coverage protection from small arms. Their teeth and claws have also beeth reinforced with steel.

If this doesn't secure the jungle nothing will.

[Azzuro]

Replace V-12 with 14 cylinder two row radial engine and you have my vote for UFAF-F-39 "Hornet"  And make it use 4 oil (better 5) because we want a powerful engine.

Ok, modified. Not changing the cost though, don't give Sensei ideas!

[Khan Boyzitbig]

War Tigers

Forenian Tigers have been trained for battle and form a strong bond with a single soldier. They have been equipped with a modified suit of Tiger Armour that fits a tiger and provides full coverage protection from small arms. Their teeth and claws have also beeth reinforced with steel.

If this doesn't secure the jungle nothing will.

And would be useful for amphibious assaults too (tigers can and will swim). Might be trickier training them than building a vehicle that can do the same though but fun.