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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[NUKE9.13]

Potential problem with a transport sub: it may fall under Naval TC, which we want to avoid. Besides, how is a transport sub less of a slow move than a transport plane?
I believe we can use the RC for a revision, but I'd really rather save it for a Very Hard design that we really want to pull off.
Is designing a transport a bit of a slow move? In the immediate sense, yes. On the other hand, the list of things it makes cheaper, which will have an effect on every front, is formidable. I mean, that extra TC is so useful that it would be insane not to develop a transport this turn.

We can use our revision for something impactful. We could use something to hold the southern island.

[helmacon]

>transport submarine

lol, maybe for blockade running I guess...

I say design a transport and revise our ships to use the bigger guns.

edit: wait, no. revision should be for our APC. Give it treads n shit.

[evictedSaint]

We should spend the research credit on something Hard or Very Hard.  Like Radar or a Lexington-class carrier (although we should probably shelve carrier designs for the moment, considering our home-run design is currently performing its function within acceptable parameters).

But if we wish to capitalize on our carrier, we need to revise the Dolphin this turn, with the only exception being if we need to revise the Transport Plane to get it working (which we might need to if we have a spy sabotaging us).

I'm thinking something based off the DC-3 Douglas mixed with the C-130 Hercules.  Needs to be big enough to carry a load, be it ore or paratroopers.  Needs to be cheap, if we want to get it to do its job correctly.  Something liiiiike...

Military Transport Aircraft UFAF-MTA-38 'Reckless Effect' Pattern A
Description: Dedicated hauler aircraft.  Large internal spacing to allow for cargo, be it ore shipments, oil drums, paratroopers, or a very skinny light tank.  Rear drops down into a ramp beneath the tail to allow cargo to be wheeled in and out of the plane.  Ramp can be opened in flight to drop paratroopers, or cargo if an emergency occurs and the pilot needs to drop weight.  Four V12 radial engines and a large wingspan give the aircraft enough lift to carry its cargo where it needs to.  Internals are sparsely furnished to cut weight where possible.  Large rudder and elevator gives it a relatively stable flight. Wings are shoulder-mounted to give the engines ground clearance and further increase stability.
    Dimensions: 25 meters long, 35 meter wingspan.
    Cargo Hold: 12 meters long by 2.5x2.5 meter cross-section.
    Max Load: 8,000 kg  (2 TC)
    Engines: 4 V12 Radial wing-mounted engines.
    Armament: None.
    Armour: None.
    Other stuff: Both Encryption and Decryption radios for communication.

The Albatross is fine, but we need something that's not also a gunship for once.  It needs to Carry Things^TM, not Shoot Things^TM.  This is why I propose the Reckless Effect.

[Light forger]

Ok, a brief run through of my thinking from the discord we should make a heavy bomber with at least 1 TC. It shouldn't be hard after all Cannalan did it and it offers more then a pure transport plane. Should we need a pure transport plane we can just use a revision to get one from the bomber. So here is a ultra-heavy bomber and, a plain old heavy bomber.

UFS-UHB-1938-S 'Calamity'
A super heavy bomber power by four V-12 turbocharged engines the Calamity is a monster to behold. With a wing span of nearly 50 meters and armed with five guns pods armed with a single 20mm autocannons (one top, one on each side, one front and one rear). Able to carry several metric tons of bombs it uses a form of all or nothing armor with only the engines and cabin being armored. Fuel is carried in a number of cells stopping the plane from bleeding all it's fuel if hit. The interior minus the bomb bay is fully sealed and pressurized with oxygen masks should the crew need to enter the bomb bay mid-air. The plane can also be used to carry either cargo or paratroopers with a extreme focus on getting at least 1 TC. It's manned by ten airmen in a number of roles including a radioman outfitted with a full radio set.

UFS-HB-1938-S 'Archon'
A well armed and armored heavy bomber outfitted with four turbocharged V-12 engines. It's able to carry a significance payload of bombs and is armed with three gun turrets. Each turret is armed with a single 20mm auto cannon and are located in the front, top and back of the plane. It's mainly armored around the engines and the cabin with the wings only being able to take glancing blows. The cabin is seal and pressurized with oxygen mask in the plane should it be punctured or the crew needs to enter the bomb bay. It's also able to carry some cargo or paratroopers with a extreme focus on getting at least 1 TC. It has a crew of seven with a radioman and his kit included.

[Powder Miner]

I'm not liking our odds if we don't do some sort of ground-useful revision. If they do well on ground work next turn and we don't address it, it is entirely possible that they will A. Capture the south island and B. stall our advance in the north in this next turn before our extra supply kicks in

[evictedSaint]

They're going to spend the turn designing a transporter of their own, probably.  We still might lose the tundra if that happens, but we'll gain the northern jungle...probably.

Since they now have two free lanes they can push, they'll probably press center and bottom to further their advantage.  I am just doubtful how much a cargo-plane turned heavy-bomber will do in bombing moving ground targets, and if we can do some simple, humble design to get ourselves the extra TC then we can spend the revision on something more immediately useful, like a Torpedo or better gun or engine.

[Powder Miner]

Yeah, I don't wanna focus on makimg a bomber, because we risk losing our TC, which would defeat the point entirely -- AND be a grievous loss, because these island resource gains are critical. I want to vote for the Albatross or Reckless Effect, but I'll see what the discussion looks like tomorrow.

[evictedSaint]

May I point out that if we take the northern jungle, that's ANOTHER TC we will need.  So a 2 TC cargo plane might be our best bet.

[RAM]

Big question... Can we get a transport plane out of a revision? It is basically just pulling out everything interesting and heavy then trying to give it more grunt...

[piratejoe]

Ok, a brief run through of my thinking from the discord we should make a heavy bomber with at least 1 TC. It shouldn't be hard after all Cannalan did it and it offers more then a pure transport plane. Should we need a pure transport plane we can just use a revision to get one from the bomber. So here is a ultra-heavy bomber and, a plain old heavy bomber.

UFS-UHB-1938-S 'Calamity'
A super heavy bomber power by four V-12 turbocharged engines the Calamity is a monster to behold. With a wing span of nearly 50 meters and armed with five guns pods armed with a single 20mm autocannons (one top, one on each side, one front and one rear). Able to carry several metric tons of bombs it uses a form of all or nothing armor with only the engines and cabin being armored. Fuel is carried in a number of cells stopping the plane from bleeding all it's fuel if hit. The interior minus the bomb bay is fully sealed and pressurized with oxygen masks should the crew need to enter the bomb bay mid-air. The plane can also be used to carry either cargo or paratroopers with a extreme focus on getting at least 1 TC. It's manned by ten airmen in a number of roles including a radioman outfitted with a full radio set.

I like this idea...a lot. Remember we have two designs, I suggest that our other design is some kind of ship, a sub or a light cruiser while our first design is the bomber, revision can be opening it up to be a massive paratrooper plane.

[NUKE9.13]

They're going to spend the turn designing a transporter of their own, probably.

They don't need it. They've already got a 3 TC cargo ship.

Anyway, the Albatross and the Reckless Effort seem fairly similar to me. I would like to give our cargo planes at least light armaments, but I can see the reason not to- our rapidly emerging doctrine of 'Cut corners until the thing resembles a sphere, just to keep the cost down' (sphere joke credit to... someone in the Discord, I forget who)
Also, the Reckless Effort should specify the cargo weight we are looking for- 8 tons makes the most sense, I think.

Big question... Can we get a transport plane out of a revision? It is basically just pulling out everything interesting and heavy then trying to give it more grunt...

Our current "Heavy" bomber has a 2 ton bomb load. Strip out unnecessary equipment and you might manage to get 3 tons of cargo in. Which might be enough for 1 TC, but it wouldn't be as useful for delivering troops and materiel to the front- which is one of the advantages of a transport plane: it lets us bypass their naval blockades.
So whilst we could perhaps do that, I'd rather design a bigger plane.

That reminds me, one reason we are losing in the southern island is due to lack of supplies. A transport plane would improve our logistical situation there.

...but that has me worrying that it might not improve the situation enough to beat them + whatever they roll out this turn. And if we lose our foothold on the island, we won't be getting it back for quite some time- we'd need to design a lander, some new land tech, and weaken their naval advantage. Perhaps we should use our revision to create some bigger artillery, or make some other land-based improvement.
Or perhaps the better weather will both increase our aerial advantage whilst reducing their naval one enough that we manage to hang on to our ports for another season.

Remember we have two designs.

We do not have two designs. The Research Credit lets us roll at an advantage when designing (that is, we roll twice and only use the higher value)

[piratejoe]

Oh.....Well then.... Huh. Still leaning on the super heavy bomber but if you can make a better ship or a good argument to not get the bomber let me know. However, we have a better chance with making something risky with this research credit.

[Taricus]

'Reckless Effect' Transport Aircraft (1): Taricus

TC first, THEN bombing capabilities. Also don't set a max. takeoff weight. Sensei will use it against us.

[Mulisa]

Ok, a brief run through of my thinking from the discord we should make a heavy bomber with at least 1 TC. It shouldn't be hard after all Cannalan did it and it offers more then a pure transport plane. Should we need a pure transport plane we can just use a revision to get one from the bomber. So here is a ultra-heavy bomber and, a plain old heavy bomber.

UFS-UHB-1938-S 'Calamity'
A super heavy bomber power by four V-12 turbocharged engines the Calamity is a monster to behold. With a wing span of nearly 50 meters and armed with five guns pods armed with a single 20mm autocannons (one top, one on each side, one front and one rear). Able to carry several metric tons of bombs it uses a form of all or nothing armor with only the engines and cabin being armored. Fuel is carried in a number of cells stopping the plane from bleeding all it's fuel if hit. The interior minus the bomb bay is fully sealed and pressurized with oxygen masks should the crew need to enter the bomb bay mid-air. The plane can also be used to carry either cargo or paratroopers with a extreme focus on getting at least 1 TC. It's manned by ten airmen in a number of roles including a radioman outfitted with a full radio set.

UFS-HB-1938-S 'Archon'
A well armed and armored heavy bomber outfitted with four turbocharged V-12 engines. It's able to carry a significance payload of bombs and is armed with three gun turrets. Each turret is armed with a single 20mm auto cannon and are located in the front, top and back of the plane. It's mainly armored around the engines and the cabin with the wings only being able to take glancing blows. The cabin is seal and pressurized with oxygen mask in the plane should it be punctured or the crew needs to enter the bomb bay. It's also able to carry some cargo or paratroopers with a extreme focus on getting at least 1 TC. It has a crew of seven with a radioman and his kit included.

I'll definitely support the Calamity But I suggest adding a ventral turret to the design, most fighters will be coming at it from below anyway due to the high operation ceilings of heavy bombers.

[Khan Boyzitbig]

'Reckless Effect' Transport Aircraft (2): Taricus, Khan Boyzitbig

TC first, THEN bombing capabilities. Also don't set a max. takeoff weight. Sensei will use it against us.

Indeed. And we can redesign a transport plane for bombing if need be (or airborne depth charges rolled out the back, doesn't even need a redesign for that).