Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Parsely]

Carriers are more aware than any other surface vessel because they have aircraft on call. They can detect enemy ships long before a task group reaches an enemy fleet. Again, read my post on aerial recon. Planes deployed from an aircraft carrier boost a task group's line of sight by 10 times, which means our fleets will be able to get the drop on enemy fleets. A CV increases the deadliness and survivability of all of our warships.

If you're fighting in the middle of the sea, it can take hours for aircraft to arrive from the shore, and by the time they arrive they're low on fuel and can't stay long. The advantages a carrier provides should be obvious on this front; it can get planes into the fight much quicker. You are underestimated the savings you can make by getting planes close to a fight. If a plane's servicing facilities are twice as close to a fight, then a flight of planes can mount an attack almost twice as often.

Planes launched from the shore can recon and hunt down ships, but they aren't good at supporting allied fleets because they're too far away to react to an ongoing battle. They have to already be on the way when a fight starts in order to get there in time to support a fleet.

E: DDs support CVs by being fast enough to keep up with the fleet carrier and small (better turning radius) and having the tools to kill submarines and aircraft, while contributing to anti-ship combat using torpedoes (which are light and just as powerful as guns). Cruisers support CVs by fending off DDs, which need to get close to fire torps; they also support landings with their big guns.

CVs kill ships, they kill subs, they kill other CVs, and they support landings, because they have a versatile array of aircraft. If well employed they should never come within range of a cruiser or DD, and indeed in history CVs were sunk by aircraft, not battleships.

The DD and cruiser are nothing without the CV, not the other way around. CV comes first, cruiser comes later (if at all).

[NUKE9.13]

Aw geez. So, I understand the temptation to go for a cruiser. But I think it is just that- temptation. It is a reactive move, which honestly is unlikely to actually work- even with a cruiser, their navy will still be vastly superior to ours. Even if we do outrange them slightly, superior manoeuvring on their part will negate that (They did choose a naval general, it's in their equipment list). We aren't going to outgun their battleship (or heavy cruiser, whatever you want to call it).
The only method in which we are currently beating their navy is through air power. At the moment, however, that air power can only be deployed close to the shore. Being able to deploy our superior air force from anywhere on the ocean would be attacking them from a different angle.

As for issues with a carrier:

• The ARAC is a ludicrous piece of technology which also counts as a Long Airstrip. A carrier would be a far sensible piece of technology, and a more restrained Short Airstrip. Yes, we have to be careful not to hit NE, but I think we can manage.
• Yes, a carrier is a bigger ship than we have previously constructed. But A) a cruiser hull is not big enough to base a carrier on either, and B) with our experience building the ARAC and the Archer, sizing up the hull is the main source of difficulty. Sure, it may be Hard, but I doubt it will be Very Hard. evictedSaint's proposal also makes this easier by being based on a commercial hull, so how to build one is not a military secret- the knowledge should be fairly easily accessible to our engineers. Also, it is literally a two-decade old design.
   I would be pleasantly surprised, but not totally unbelieving, if it was even just Normal.
• A hydraulic elevator does not strike me as complex.
• If our carrier does prove to be insufficiently defended, we can build a cruiser next turn. The order doesn't make a difference- except that I think a carrier has a higher chance of being immediately effective than a cruiser.

As such, I am going to vote for the Wasp's Nest (although I really think we should take off half of those Bumblebees)(and add in about 4 more boilers)(and specify that it has a torpedo belt)

'Wasp Nest': (9) GUNINANRUNIN, Khan Boyzitbig,evictedSaint, Andrea, Kashyyk, Happerry, Azzuro, Madman198237, NUKE9.13
'Cavalier': (6) Baffler, Powder Miner, Taricus, Zanzetkuken, Stabby, Helmacon
'B3 Demolisher': (0)
'Hornet Nest': (0)
Razor's Edge (Carrier, CV-38L, very lightweight and simple):
UFS-NFB-38-W 'Hellion': (1) Lightforger

[Devastator]

CVs are very useful, but they get shot in the side by a MTB if they're suprised.  And they're knocked out by bad weather.

Really, the question with naval strategy should be at the most basic:  Do you want to try and establish control over the seas, or do you want to settle getting transports through and maintaining supply lines?  If it's the latter, you may not even need carriers, just long-range patrol aircraft, floatplanes, and light ships.  With Cannelia having more Ore and Forenia more oil, it might be better to swarm them with cheap, light craft and radar-assisted flak than trying to build very large ships.

[Mulisa]

I vote for the UFS-CC-39 Pattern E "Cavalier". If we want a carrier better make it right, and to do that, we'll get valuable experience with ships from the Cavalier. Plus as stated, our fighters become cheaper next turn, amplifying the cariers effect when introduced.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Updated list with Mulisa's vote:

'Wasp Nest': (9) GUNINANRUNIN, Khan Boyzitbig,evictedSaint, Andrea, Kashyyk, Happerry, Azzuro, Madman198237, NUKE9.13
'Cavalier': (7) Baffler, Powder Miner, Taricus, Zanzetkuken, Stabby, Helmacon, Mulisa
'B3 Demolisher': (0)
'Hornet Nest': (0)
Razor's Edge (Carrier, CV-38L, very lightweight and simple):
UFS-NFB-38-W 'Hellion': (1) Lightforger

[Funk]

Updated list with Mulisa's vote:

'Wasp Nest': (10) GUNINANRUNIN, Khan Boyzitbig,evictedSaint, Andrea, Kashyyk, Happerry, Azzuro, Madman198237, NUKE9.13, Funk
'Cavalier': (7) Baffler, Powder Miner, Taricus, Zanzetkuken, Stabby, Helmacon, Mulisa
'B3 Demolisher': (0)
'Hornet Nest': (0)
Razor's Edge (Carrier, CV-38L, very lightweight and simple):
UFS-NFB-38-W 'Hellion': (1) Lightforger

[Sensei]

Votes locked in for Wasp's Nest, drawing it up!

[evictedSaint]

I am both really proud of my design and the fact it got picked, and really nervous that it will roll well and be effective.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I am both really proud of my design and the fact it got picked, and really nervous that it will roll well and be effective.

...so Sensei just said in the Discord he rolled a 6 less than two minutes after you said this...

[Sensei]

Aircraft Carrier UFS-CV 'Wasp Nest' 38, Pattern A
Description: Forenia's first Aircraft Carrier.  A light flat-top ship based heavily off our existing AS-CV22 and AS-ARAC-35; main differences include a greater overall length and a flat wooden deck for aircraft take-off and landing.  Wooden deck is slightly elevated off the edges of the ship and utilizes one hydraulic lift for ferrying aircraft from below deck to above deck.  Due to the time it takes to lift aircraft from below deck combat-ready planes crowd the rear of the deck when expecting combat situations.  Makes use of several "Arresting Cables" which require aircraft to be modified with tail-hooks.  Command center is at the stern of the ship, below the deck.  Unarmored deck, open-air hanger deck to reduce cost and load. 
    Dimensions: 180 meters long, 22 meter beam, 7 meter draught.
    Displacement: 14,680 tons
    Engines: 6 water-tube boilers feeding 4 steam turbines, geared.
    Armament: 5 fighter aircraft.  15 torpedo/bomber aircraft.  16 Bumblebee AA nests and 6 AS-AC18 spread evenly around the edge of the deck.
    Armour: Medium around the belt for torpedo survivability.  Very Light elsewhere.
    Other stuff: Both Encryption and Decryption radios for communication.
ESTIMATED DIFFICULTY: HARD (We don’t have much experience building big ships. We have experience making landing strips in places they don't belong.  We could argue this should be easier since we are basing it on existing, decades-old tech)

(Note: The one kind of implausible thing about this design was the 16 bumblebee guns. No way!)

Hard: 6
UFS-CV 'Wasp Nest' 38, Pattern A: Forenia's first aircraft carrier, and their biggest ship by far compared to the CV22 cargo ship and Archer. Its hull contains four of the turbines used to power the Archer, and is unarmored except for a torpedo belt. Planes stored belowdecks are lift by a single hydraulic lift. The command center is below-decks, so that the wooden flight deck almost completely covers the ship, giving it a low, flat appearance. The flight deck's rear section stores several combat-ready aircraft, and there are three Bumblebee AA guns on each side, one deck below on exposed platforms, plus several AC18's for point defence. The last important feature is a set of arresting cables on deck allowing planes to land safely, these catch hooks on the planes themselves, and are lowered out of the way for takeoff. [4 Ore, 2 Oil]

[evictedSaint]

Fuck. Yeah.

(Note: The one kind of implausible thing about this design was the 16 bumblebee guns. No way!)

To be fair, I'd initially requested a much more humble amount and was bullied into putting in more.

[andrea]

Those things become cheap after we get the ore from british island...

[Light forger]

(Note: The one kind of implausible thing about this design was the 16 bumblebee guns. No way!)

To be fair, I'd initially requested a much more humble amount and was bullied into putting in more.

In my defense when I suggested that amount I thought they where 40mm cannons not 90mm.

[evictedSaint]

They should work in groups, sending up many planes at the same time for assaults.  With our new ultra-effective carriers, we should give ourselves better torps.



TPD 'DOLPHIN' 38-2: An all-around better torpedo.  A magnetic detenator is installed in the nose, allowing it to run deeper and hit the vulnerable "spine" of enemy ships.  If time allows, also strengthen the wet-heater motor to let it run a longer distance after being dropped.  Break-away wooden fins allow for better aerodynamics, letting it be dropped from higher and greater speeds - a relatively simple fix.

TPD Dolphin' 38-2: (1) evictedSaint

[stabbymcstabstab]

(Note: The one kind of implausible thing about this design was the 16 bumblebee guns. No way!)

To be fair, I'd initially requested a much more humble amount and was bullied into putting in more.

In my defense when I suggested that amount I thought they where 40mm cannons not 90mm.

Same, but I guess 6 90mm guns total isn't bas at all.