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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Parsely]

Hey, what about a revision to the Dolphins so that they are designed to detonate under the keel to bypass the torpedo belt?

I would love a revision to the Yellowjacket to modernize it a little more without making it more expensive.

Nah.  If we revise a larger plane (enough for transport size 2) or a really large ship (transport size of 3), then we can get the resources from the British island allowing for the HF-32 to drop down to cheap as well.  Bonus if we go for a really large plane: we can use it to drop paratroopers.

I'm on board with that. Do we have a plane that's big enough though? AFAIK we only have the equivalent of a medium bomber, nothing real heavy.

[Powder Miner]

I don't know that we actually need a carrier just this turn. Our air range is working just fine with the ranges of battle that we're operating in, but it doesn't actually do anything to allow us to take care of their heavily armored ships. Frankly speaking, I don't think the carrier would provide us with any short-term benefit. We already are flooding the skies with planes.

I would suggest designing a cruiser of some sort, or designing some truly exceptional fuckoff guns for our destroyers, because we need some actual punch to take out those Khornes.

With the drubbing they've taken in the air, I think it would be stupid of them not to work on air -- and their archipelago resource of aluminum is kicking in this next turn, so they're likely to also start evening that numerical superiority. I want to make a point that, because we passed on the fighter revision last then, we never actually developed anything to help us fighting in the air. It is only our ore gain that has so far tilted the air scales, and they're getting Al from the archipelago.

I want to suggest that we design a cruiser, in order to challenge the Khornes, and revise the HF-32 so that they can't tip the air superiority this turn by a combination of design and new resources.

[Madman198237]

Let's get some competition going at sea, THEN we make an entirely new fighter aircraft next turn. Next turn's revision should also include some sort of insane bomb-carrying capacity to Yellowjackets. They're cheap, and therefore plentiful, which means if we make them capable of carrying a lot of our absurdly cheap bombs, we'll be able to just flood all of our combat theaters with explosives.

Remember, carriers are all about being mobile airbases, focused on killing things at sea. If we make the carrier, and then revise the torpedoes to be MUCH deadlier, then we should be alright at sea, which is better than we've done so far.

[Kot]

Yes to up-armoring the Wasp's Nest. If we're going with a carrier, it's going to be a solid carrier, not a crappy one.

The bigger they are, the harder they fall. I feel like the carrier, while being admirable, will be ultimately very vurneable even with destroyer escorts. They just outclass us in the sea too much.

[andrea]

Upgrading yellowjackets is pointless. in 2 turns HF 32 becomes cheap, obsoleting the yellowjacket entirely. if we want to revise something, might as well revise what will be our main cheap fighter for much of the game.
Oh, and the HF 32 can carry bombs as well. Plus, dive bomber will become cheap as well, in 2 turns.

[Madman198237]

So? If we can avoid losing them to single hits (Which is ridiculous anyways. Physically impossible unless working with battleship-caliber HE rounds, and even then only with hits to magazines) then we'll be better off. If we can go with medium/light armor and keep speed high, we should be alright.

[evictedSaint]

If we never do anything to get that advantage back, then we wont.  Carriers are the most efficient way to get the advantage on them; besides, even if we lose every carrier this year we'll still have new ones next year.  Units aren't tracked that way.

[Baffler]

I agree with Madman, our boats are still getting wrecked. We need to get actual, proper screening ships before we can commit the resources to a carrier or they're just going to get sunk without managing to do anything. The Archer-class ain't it, at least not in its current state. That, and we need to get some more experience with naval design if we want to actually get something good out of a capital ship. How's this look?

UFS-CC-39 Pattern D "Cavalier"
Description: A medium sized cruiser with medium armor at the surface and a light torpedo belt, intended to to support fleet actions or operate independently. It is equipped with two pairs of twin-mounted 155mm gun turrets, with one pair at the bow and the other at the stern. The centermost turret on each side is taller than its twin to allow firing straight on and to reduce interference in the flight of the shells. It is further equipped with a pair of bumblebee guns at port and starboard positions next to the conning tower, with a pair of AS-AC18 autocannons on either side, to defend against enemy aircraft. It is powered by 4 steam turbines identical to those used on the Archer class, fed by four 3-drum water boilers.

[Madman198237]

Except I'm saying make the carrier now, and then try to beat them at what is, for now, their own game.

[Taricus]

@Gunin carriers do need escorts, and we need better munitions for the bombers to do much against their carriers.

Hence, a proposal to get a decent gun cruiser to compliment our future carriers:

UFS-CL-38 Pattern A 'Stalwart-Class' Light Cruiser:
Description: Built to compliment our destroyer flotillas and to provide some meatier gun support for them, the Stalwart is still a light, fast vessel that is lightly armoured on both the deck and the hull. The main guns are directed by a targeting system similar to that of the archer. If the designers have the time, a torpedo belt is included on the armour scheme. Also includes the radio equipment as standard
-Dimensions: 160m long, 16m beam, 5.5m Draught
-Armament: 8 150mm 'Grenadier' Cannons, in four turrets (2 fore and 2 aft in superfiring position), 24 x AC18 Autocannons, 6x 'Dolphin' Torpedo Launchers
-Armour: Deck and Turrets: 25mm. Belt: 51mm. All in face-hardened steel.
-Engine: 4 Boilers feeding Two Steam turbines

[Parsely]

Escort ships are pointless if there's nothing to escort.

My design vote isn't going towards anything other than a CV. Right now they still have a big advantage and if we don't level the playing field we won't be able to exploit the resources we capture. We can compete at the sea with this weapon. See my post on the value of air reconnaissance on the sea. Our planes are doing very well against ships that stray too close to the islands.

We could try and revise the Dolphin so that it can detonate beneath the keel of a ship in order to further cement this advantage. If successful, it would render their Khorne totally obsolete, and our destroyers would have a strong counter against the Seaweed AAA ships.

[Powder Miner]

We're still fighting navally and with aviation in our close seas, what advantage do carriers actually give us this turn? We need to challenge the Khorne, but we aren't. We should spring for something that will be helpful. I agree carriers should be art of our overall plan but now's not the turn for them.

I don't know enough about cruisers to say if the Cavalier is a good one, but I like the idea of cruiser.

[helmacon]

Hey, so a note. The existence of EMP's and stuff was know about in 1940, (The theory was actualy around in the 20's) it just wasn't developed until the 60's. 2000 was when EMP's became really mainstream, but the tech for it had been around for so long at that point that the first one was literally made in a basement with used car parts for 500$.

Something to keep in mind for later on, since we are about to hit the 40's.

[evictedSaint]

Our bonus is with aircraft.  If we need something to contest them at sea, then carriers are the way to go.

I fully expect us to continue losing for another turn, perhaps even two turns regardless of what we design.  I am proposing carriers because I believe it's the quickest, best way to beat them.  It's a proactive counter to their ships and it fundamentally changes naval warfare to a method we excel at.  Attempting a cruiser will only delay us another turn of getting that air advantage into play.

[Powder Miner]

But our air advantage is already at play, especially with those fuel tanks. What advantage does a carrier provide us right now?