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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Kot]

RS rockets suffered from poor accuracy. Early testing demonstrated that, when fired from 500 m, a mere 1.1% of 186 fired RS-82 hit a single tank and only 3.7% hit a column of tanks. RS-132 accuracy was even worse with no hits scored in 134 firings during one test. Combat accuracy was even worse since the rockets were typically fired from even greater distances. To further complicate the matters, RS-82 required a direct hit to disable light German armor with near-misses causing no damage. RS-132 could defeat medium German armor with a direct hit but caused almost no damage to light or medium armor with a near-miss.

Aware of their ground attack ineffectiveness, Soviets began to experiment two new tactics in order to destroy tanks with airplanes at the battle of Kursk:

1) Modified Il-2 based on two seat Il-2, armed with Nudelman-Suranov NS-37 instead of 20/23 mm cannons, this version is a very similar concept to the german Ju87G. However, combat effectiveness was quite low, may be because of the IL-2 relative low maneuverability or because of the level of training such weapon needed to attack the thin top of tanks. Moreover, bomb load decreased from 600 kg to 200 kg and even with 48mm of penetration, this gun didn't have enough punch for heavy tanks.

2) Conventional Il-2 with 220 PTAB anti-tank bomblets in the internal weapon bays or 192 PTAB in four external dispensers. The PTAB-2.5-1.5 has 1.5kg of explosive and could penetrate from 60mm to 70mm, which was enough to destroy any tank of the WWII even the heavier ones because it falls generally straight to the top of tanks. The amount of bombs dropped ensured high probability of hits against enemy tanks even when they were in open formation. The usual maneuver needed to use the PTAB was a dive bombing from 70 to 100m altitude and the footprint of bombs dropped by a single aircraft could cover 2 or 3 tanks spaced 60-75m apart.

First used on July 2 1943, group of eight Il-2 (Captain M.I.Smilskij, 1st Guard Assault Division) performed five runs over about 70 German tanks poised for attack, dropping no less than 1200 PTABs. Fifteen machines were set afire.

Pilots of 266th ShAD, 1st ShAK destroyed or damaged 10 panzers and 10 vehicles during an attack (led by Matikov of the 673rd ShAP) of stationary tanks near Yakovlevo and Pogorelovo. 491 PTABs were used.

The claims by pilots using the bombs were so extensive that they were often doubted by superior officers. Staffs officer and commanders started flying combat missions to monitor the result of air strikes in person, and finally stated : "the enemy losses statistics cited were correct"

"the encrypted message sent by Col Gen Vorozheykin to Stalin on 11 July 1943 says that Soviet ground troops deployed on Hill 255.1 saw six IL-2 attack 15 Tiger tanks, settings six of them on fire. A large panzer force was detected on a hill cast of Kashary on 10 July. Soviet attack aircraft delivered a pin-point air strike, killing 30 enemy tanks and settings 14 on fire, while the rest of the panzer group dispersed and started a chaotic retreat northwards"

The PTAB had indeed made an impressive debut, as a result the Soviet command chose to employ the PTAB on large scale. The number of PTABs dropped in a given time period steadily increased thereafter. By the end of 1943, Soviet records show that 1,171,340 PTABs were dropped. In 1944, the number dropped was 5,024,822. In the first four months of 1945, a further 3,242,701 PTAB were used. In other hand, production of the NS-37 variant of the IL2 stopped. Recovering from the initial shock of the PTAB, Germans tanks soon adopted open formations as a reaction, undermining their morale, speed of deployment, command and control efficiency but reducing the effectiveness of IL2 strikes.

Would cause death of thousand cuts to enemy ships, causing fires, killing crewmembers, damaging weaponry and setting off ammuniton.

Wouldn't the bomb be a design, not a revision?

We're essentially strapping wings on RPG warhead? Not exactly hard.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Wouldn't the bomb be a design, not a revision?

(We are in a revision stage, right? I'm not up-to-date with all the procedure in this version of an arms race game)

I'd vote for the aircraft upgrade as the revision. Design the bombs next turn, ought to give us a huge advantage. But, then again, the design needs to wait until we see what happens this year.

We've done revisions for ammunition before.  This shouldn't need to be a design.

[Happerry]

HF-32 General Performance Revision : (7) Powder Miner, Taricus, Andrea, Funk, Stabby, NUKE9.13, evictedSaint
UFS-BL-38-A 'Firecracker': (4) Lightforger, Kot, Zanzetkuken, Happerry
Pattern E-2: (1) Baffler
Dolphin-N:
Macross:
B2 Destroyer (Destroyer Edition)

[Madman198237]

Got it. Go for it...probably next turn. If we're getting shot down in droves it won't matter how effective we are with our bomblets, we won't have enough planes to deliver the firepower we need.

I suggest we adopt divebombing ASAP, and make this ammunition in packets of, say, 5 bomblets. Then, you drop 5 from the plane with every target you sight in on. It'll give great kill rates while allowing a single plane to stay over the AO for ludicrous amounts of time. And if you're in trouble, say diving on a lot of enemy AAA, there's always the "ALL THE BOMBS" option.

HF-32 General Performance Revision : ( Powder Miner, Taricus, Andrea, Funk, Stabby, NUKE9.13, evictedSaint, Madman198237
UFS-BL-38-A 'Firecracker': (4) Lightforger, Kot, Zanzetkuken, Happerry
Pattern E-2: (1) Baffler
Dolphin-N:
Macross:
B2 Destroyer (Destroyer Edition)

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Got it. Go for it...probably next turn. If we're getting shot down in droves it won't matter how effective we are with our bomblets, we won't have enough planes to deliver the firepower we need.

We're going to have a ton of Cheap Yellowjackets.  We kinda HAVE enough planes to deliver the firepower.

And MERELY 5 bomblets?  You do realize we can mount over a hundred of these before reaching the capacity of the HF, and over seven hundred on the Heavy Bomber?  DIsregard.  Misunderstood.

[Kot]

1) Divebomb the enemy ship with cheaper planes using the Firecrackers, taking out AAA and starting general panic on the ship.
2) Torpedo the enemy ship using more expensive torpedo planes that now can go low and slow without worrying about enemy AAA.

Repeat ad infinitum.

[Madman198237]

Yes. Hence "absurd staying power". You can just keep dropping five-bomb packets. And if they are like a cluster munition then it's even better. As in, dive, drop a packet or three, you'll almost certainly get a kill, and yet you still have 24 additional packets to drop.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Okay, let me ask, what advantage does revising the HF give in the immediate future?  Slightly better fighter.  With the yellowjacket coming in as a cheap fighter, we can wait on that for now, until either they manage to make a better one or the turn before THEY will become cheap.

The bombs?  Hell of a lot more useful right now.  The sheer number on board the bombers and dive bombers will allow for them to drop payloads many times before running out of supplies, allowing for striking upon multiple pieces of artillery and tanks over the course of the fighting rather than being restricted to one or two.  This is vastly better support and would help out our infantry to be even more terrifying, as well as eliminate the advantages their artillery gives.  Alternatively, we can use them enmass in order to obliterate formations of infantry and tanks, clear out trenches, wreck their airfields, clear massive swathes of territory in the Jungle using the incendiaries (also playing to their fear of fire), deal massive damage to the tops of their ships allowing for torpedo-armed craft to come through, sinking the ships, or simply causing the massive problem of setting the decks on fire.  That last three part would allow us to really be helped out at sea in order to help heal the fact that the Destroyers guns didn't turn out so good (which is a MAJOR IMMEDIATE PROBLEM).  These are more effective in both the immediate and long term than revising the plane right now is.

[Madman198237]

Fine, I've convinced myself. With a small amount of help.

HF-32 General Performance Revision : (7) Powder Miner, Taricus, Andrea, Funk, Stabby, NUKE9.13, evictedSaint
UFS-BL-38-A 'Firecracker': (5) Lightforger, Kot, Zanzetkuken, Happerry, Madman198237
Pattern E-2: (1) Baffler
Dolphin-N:
Macross:
B2 Destroyer (Destroyer Edition)

[Funk]

Wouldn't the bomb be a design, not a revision?

We're essentially strapping wings on RPG warhead? Not exactly hard.
[/quote]

So we're takeing weapons advice from ISIS now?

Changed my vote

Fine, I've convinced myself. With a small amount of help.

HF-32 General Performance Revision : (7) Powder Miner, Taricus, Andrea, Stabby, NUKE9.13, evictedSaint
UFS-BL-38-A 'Firecracker': (5) Lightforger, Kot, Zanzetkuken, Happerry, Madman198237, Funk
Pattern E-2: (1) Baffler
Dolphin-N:
Macross:
B2 Destroyer (Destroyer Edition)

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

So we're takeing weapons advice from ISIS now?

Nah, Soviets.

HF-32 General Performance Revision : (7) Powder Miner, Taricus, Andrea, Stabby, NUKE9.13, evictedSaint
UFS-BL-38-A 'Firecracker': (5) Lightforger, Kot, Zanzetkuken, Happerry, Madman198237, Funk
Pattern E-2: (1) Baffler
Dolphin-N:
Macross:
B2 Destroyer (Destroyer Edition)

Don't forget to update the counter, Funk.  You left it at 7/5, when it should be 6/6.

[Baffler]

HF-32 General Performance Revision : (6) Powder Miner, Taricus, Andrea, Stabby, NUKE9.13, evictedSaint
UFS-BL-38-A 'Firecracker': (7) Lightforger, Kot, Zanzetkuken, Happerry, Madman198237, Funk, Baffler
Pattern E-2:
Dolphin-N:
Macross:
B2 Destroyer (Destroyer Edition)

[evictedSaint]

HF-32 General Performance Revision : (5) Powder Miner, Taricus, Andrea, Stabby, NUKE9.13
UFS-BL-38-A 'Firecracker': ( Lightforger, Kot, Zanzetkuken, Happerry, Madman198237, Funk, Baffler, evictedSaint
Pattern E-2:
Dolphin-N:
Macross:
B2 Destroyer (Destroyer Edition)

I feel like a better bomb would be a more constructive use of our revision than a better fighter.  Their ships are slaughtering us, not their planes.  This new bomb should go a long way to increasing our effectiveness against their navy and provide a more immediate, tangible benefit.

[Sensei]

8 votes huh? Assuming things don't suddenly shake up, I'll write up the bombs soon.

[Hibou]

HF-32 General Performance Revision : (5) Powder Miner, Taricus, Andrea, Stabby, NUKE9.13
UFS-BL-38-A 'Firecracker': (9) Lightforger, Kot, Zanzetkuken, Happerry, Madman198237, Funk, Baffler, evictedSaint, Hibou
Pattern E-2:
Dolphin-N:
Macross:
B2 Destroyer (Destroyer Edition)

Our air force is so far fighting a fairly even fight, but this naval inferiority thing needs to be addressed quickly. The bomb seems to be our best (and cheapest) solution, or at the very least a band-aid fix while we figure out something more concrete.