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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Hey guys.  Here's a thought.  You know the MOABs and how they are deployed out the back of planes via parachute?  Let's make our Transport Planes as big as possible, then revise as big a MOAB as we can to deploy out the back via a truck base so it can move, and parachutes.

Bonus, we make it come in Incendiary, Smoke, HE, and HEAT variants.

[RAM]

I am not convinced that a heavy-bomber flying boat would be viable. They would tend to benefit from a stable platform when being prepared for action. Also, it may be somewhat difficult to get them to actually float when fully loaded.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I am not convinced that a heavy-bomber flying boat would be viable. They would tend to benefit from a stable platform when being prepared for action. Also, it may be somewhat difficult to get them to actually float when fully loaded.

Precisely why I prefer if we just focus entirely on making a really good transport, maybe with a bit of armor to help defend against potential AA fire/if we go the MOAB deployed out a back ramp with the revision.  Trying to make it a floatplane doesn't really add anything to that, and if we don't go for the MOAB route, we can still revise the transport into a heavy bomber.

[VoidSlayer]

What we really need is a heavily armored all terrain motorcycle with an armored rider that we can parachute drop out the back.

Too much?

[Hibou]

In all honesty an armored motorcycle capable of being used as a mobile machine gun emplacement sounds pretty cool

[Madman198237]

Here's the thing: You build the transport aircraft, THEN you build a tank capable of going with the parachute troops.

If we design a superior air-portable/parachute-capable self-propelled howitzer and light tank to match, we'd be able to mass-insert units uncontested by Cannalan naval forces.

And if we go all-out and invent controllable parachutes for HALO/HAHO jumps, we could conceivably insert special forces units anywhere necessary. Speaking of which, we need to develop frogman tools and training. And possibly also MTBs (Motor Torpedo Boats), all in the interests of going all asymmetric naval warfare on their fleet.

[Parsely]

You can't invade a country entirely by air. Without an advancing land army to link up with air-inserted troops, there is no point to air dropped forces.

E: Right now we don't even have landing craft. I'm all for a heavy air transport, but this focus on paradropping forces is ludicrous.

[Madman198237]

Actually, given the scales we're operating at, and the transport capacity we have right now, it's not at all ludicrous to suggest paradropping being a principle means of insertion. Also, given how cheap and plentiful our planes and troops tend to be, we ought to be able to mount a full-scale campaign (Using carriers and air cover) with nothing but paradropped lunatics/brave Forenia souls.

[Kot]

Human torpedoes come to mind. The non-suicide ones, of course. We already have magnetic mines (thanks to my genius in previous war), we could just stick them together and use as Limpet mines.

[Parsely]

Actually, given the scales we're operating at, and the transport capacity we have right now, it's not at all ludicrous to suggest paradropping being a principle means of insertion. Also, given how cheap and plentiful our planes and troops tend to be, we ought to be able to mount a full-scale campaign (Using carriers and air cover) with nothing but paradropped lunatics/brave Forenia souls.

40,000 airborne troops were dropped in Operation Market Garden. They had the barest of armament and almost no supplies. They were effectively surrounded by the German army and cut off from land based supply. In less than a week they suffered 8000 casualties and if XXX Corps hadn't been there to link up with them one at a time they would have all been forced to surrender. Market Garden was considered to be a disaster and just by the measure of 25% airborne casualties, rightly so.

This is the kind of operation you're advocating, except without any hope of the airborne being rescued. Think about all the equipment our troops won't be able to use without the help of landing ships.


Infodump on naval armor and penetration:
"The maximum penetration of an AP shell was very roughly equal to its caliber; that is, a 14" shell could penetrate up to 14" of armor at likely battle ranges."

USN formula for AP shells against naval armor (naval armor had different chemical compositions compared to other armors for land/air warfare):
T/D = (1728.04)(W/D3)[(V/F)Cos(Ob)]2

T = thickness of the armor
D = diameter of the shell in inches
W = weight in pounds
V = velocity in feet per second
Ob = obliquity in degrees

"The factor F took into account all other effects, including the composition of the armor and deviations from the ideal formula, and the Navy compiled extensive tables of F based on ballistic tests."

I'm looking for these F tables but I haven't found them yet.

"The U.S. Navy anticipated that the Iowas could absorb three torpedo hits with little chance of being sunk (1% chance for one hit, 2% chance for two hits, and 10% chance for three hits.) Thereafter the likelihood of sinking rose rapidly, to 40% for four hits, 70% for five hits, and 90% for six hits. This reflected both the loss of reserve buoyancy and the likelihood of subsequent hits striking close to previous hits, where the underwater protection was already stripped away. The Iowas were considered to have excellent subdivision, suggesting that the odds of survival were significantly less for many other large warships."

Source: http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/A/r/Armor.htm

[stabbymcstabstab]

we don't need to launch a full scale invasion by air, we just need to launch a large enough invasion by air. besides the only reason no one has ever invade a nation solely by air is because no one has really tried. Besides it's not like we're going to gain enough of a naval advantage to safely launch a naval advantage.

[Kot]

Actually, given the scales we're operating at, and the transport capacity we have right now, it's not at all ludicrous to suggest paradropping being a principle means of insertion. Also, given how cheap and plentiful our planes and troops tend to be, we ought to be able to mount a full-scale campaign (Using carriers and air cover) with nothing but paradropped lunatics/brave Forenia souls.

40,000 airborne troops were dropped in Operation Market Garden. They had the barest of armament and almost no supplies. They were effectively surrounded by the German army and cut off from land based supply. In less than a week they suffered 8000 casualties and if XXX Corps hadn't been there to link up with them one at a time they would have all been forced to surrender. Market Garden was considered to be a disaster and just by the measure of 25% airborne casualties, rightly so.

Operation Market Garden fucked up because nobody listened to the Pole, which Pole was promptly declared responsible for the failure because he dared to criticise Montgomery. Fucking British turds.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Hey guys.  Here's a thought.  You know the MOABs and how they are deployed out the back of planes via parachute?  Let's make our Transport Planes as big as possible, then revise as big a MOAB as we can to deploy out the back via a truck base so it can move, and parachutes.

Bonus, we make it come in Incendiary, Smoke, HE, and HEAT variants.

So...we found an 'oh god why' variant of this concept.   Load a variant with White Phosphorus...maybe in clusters of Firecrackers that are blown everywhere by an initial MOAB blast...

[Kot]

If we do it, (it is technically legal at the time, hell, it's STILL LEGAL) this will be the theme song of the rest of the war.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Made a new document that is pinned to the channel.  It is titled the 'Emergency Solutions - For Use on Brink of Defeat Only'.  Its purpose is to contain every utterly terrifying or wonder weapon we come up with, for use only when upon the brink of defeat.  The White Phosphorus MOAB gets the first entry.  May we never have to bring out the designs inside of it.