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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[ConscriptFive]

Ok, so bottom line up front is that if we don't put out cheaper air-to-air fighter this turn, we literally lose the game in two turns.

Assuming we don't blow our revision roll, the eS's Guillotine AAM for design, then fix the VVF Q (again) for revision would be the most efficient.  But's that's a huge assumption that we won't blow the second roll and basically checkmate ourselves.  So as a safety measure, I'm arguing our first roll should be a cheap fighter.  That way, even even we blow the design roll, we still can either fix it in revision, or try to fix the VVF Q (again).

I'm bothered by the Hayat in several regards:  How do you do a bi-fuel or flex-fuel engine without OnBoard Diagnostics (OBD) and Engine Control Unit (ECU) computers?  How do you also make a higher octane fuel mix for that also works in a VVF Q engine, that somehow doesn't cost more oil?  A revolutionary fuel mix like that (some kind of biofuel additive?) could easily be its own revision.  Speaking of, a "short noose" AAM really should be its own revision as well.  If you're looking to save on cost and weight, twin 30mm is still overkill.  Only one hardpoint?  Even assuming all or most of this works, the fighter ends up being either redundant role wise with the VVF Q, or becomes a third-tier cannon-fodder role in air-to-air fighting (not necessarily bad, but seems like a super short-term investment.)  Finally, making the GM add any new aeronautical tech himself as opposed to writing it in the proposal bothers my geek sensibilities.

So here we go...

UFAF-F-45 "Galileo" Multi-Role Fighter

The UFAF-F-45 "Galileo" Multi-Role Fighter is a twin seater medium-performance turbojet fighter with limited air to ground capabilities.  With the Lightning well past its end of service, and the VVF Q still under-delivering, the new Lancer medium-performance fighter has effectively shut down our ground support aircraft and opened our skies to an onslaught of their rotary aircraft.  For this reason, the Galileo aims to immediately replace the obsolete Lightning, as well as assist the aging Haast in ground support.  However, the Galileo remains enough of a generalist to leave room for a proper "Turbohaast" in the CAS role or optimized VVF Q in the air superiority role for the future UFAF order of battle.

The Galileo is similar in size and shape to the VVF Q, with aluminum where possible to control weight.  The nose is dominated by the latest Deadliest Ray RADAR.  To make room for an extended twin-seat inline cockpit, the gunnery is a modest but adequate single 30mm cannon atop the nose.  The rear seat adds a Co-Pilot/Technical Officer, to the Galileo, able to manage full-time the included bevy of RADAR, radio, and countermeasure systems necessary in a modern fighter craft.  This crucial division of labor should greatly improve aviator situational awareness and reaction time in combat.  Eschewing the overly exotic VVF aT-J30 or problematic VVF Q aT-J30-Q, the aircraft is powered by a single Iceberg aT-J40 engine with an afterburner.  Intended to also engage lower speed rotary aircraft, the Galileo features improved airbrakes over the Lightning, as well as introduces a leading edge 'Dogtooth' extension on each wing followed by a hydraulically powered leading-edge slat more towards the wingtip.  Furthermore, the wings also feature slotted flaps on the trailing-edge for additional low speed lift options.

In terms or armaments, the Galileo includes the aforementioned single 30mm cannon in the nose and two wingtip AAM launch rails.  Under the fuselage, is a wet hardpoint, allowing a third AAM, drop tanks, or one metric ton of unguided conventional bombs (such as the Firecracker cluster munition).

So yeah, it's a two-seater F-5, or F-16.  (Or maybe a MiG-21 Fishbed if you like Warsaw Pact hardware.)  A kickass but under-budget generalist fighter, designed not to step on the F-15's turf, but can also bomb when the air is too contested for an A-10.  You think I threw enough tech appropriate wing control surfaces on there to make it slow enough to gun down a helicopter and bomb a tank? (j/k)  As designed, it also has slightly better armaments than a Lancer, plus it has the bomb payload of the Haast.  (Though the Haast should still be more accurate in CAS because it's slower.)  The co-pilot should give it a combat advantage, because we're so reliant on the timely spotting of AAM's and deployment of countermeasures.  Plus hey, companionship morale boost!  Gotta fist-bump somebody after a sweet kill.

UFAF-F-45 'Hayat': (1) Madman
UFAF-AAM-45 'Guillotine': (0)
UFAF-F-45 'Galileo' Multi-Role Fighter: (1) ConscriptFive

[Madman198237]

So, the engine is meant to work with the fuel used by the VVF-Q AND that used by the VVF, not both at the same time or whatever. However, if that's harder than I thought it was (which is easily possible, what I know of aircraft fuel would fit in a couple of short sentences), I can just downgrade it to VVF-Q grade fuel (also immediately applied to the VVF-Q, because they use the same engine).

So yeah, utilizing the second stage of the Noose as an A2A missile COULD be its own revision. However, it'd be an Easy or, perhaps more likely, Trivial revision. So it's not worth its own revision, but can be included in an otherwise bare-bones design without issue.

What new aeronautical tech are you talking about? I don't recall mentioning anything that we didn't already have.

Your fighter does too much new stuff, we're looking for a design that is salvageable in revision even if it rolls a 1. Well, hopefully salvageable, anyway. We need a purebred fighter to fill the Cheap slot and undue Cannala's We're-Suddenly-Good-At-Aircraft thing that just happened. Even if their planes should be crashing left and right (The F-16 needed advanced control systems, computerized I believe, in order to actually be flyable, and this fighter seems to try to do the same thing as the F-16.) and G-LOCing pilots like crazy, because Cannala has no experienced pilots or G-suits or anything of the sort.

[FallacyofUrist]

Hello.

Just thought I'd poke my head in here and offer a few fighter suggestions.

If we're looking for a cheap spam fighter, why not design it to make kamikaze attacks(except we actually care for our pilots, so we've included an ejection seat)? That would probably help with our naval woes as well.

[Powder Miner]

Considering that our problem at that point is in large part advanced anti-air capabilities I don’t think a kamikaze would actually reach the target, especially since we need to steadily provide ground support with our air to push.

[TheRedwolf]

We could try inventing something like a jet ski, that would allow a team of specially trained soldiers to plant explosives on the hull near a weak point or the propeller, small and fast, so is hard to hit.

[Madman198237]

Our problem is aircraft, not ships. And kamikazes are hilariously ineffective compared to their cost, not to mention how much damage it'll do to our pilot rosters regardless of how good our ejector seats are.

Anyways, GET VOTING, PEOPLE! This has got to be record-setting slow voting.

[Kashyyk]

UFAF-F-45 'Hayat': (2) Madman, Kashyyk
UFAF-AAM-45 'Guillotine': (0)
UFAF-F-45 'Galileo' Multi-Role Fighter: (1) ConscriptFive

[Powder Miner]

UFAF-F-45 'Hayat': (2) Madman, Kashyyk
UFAF-AAM-45 'Guillotine': (0)
UFAF-F-45 'Galileo' Multi-Role Fighter: (2) ConscriptFive, Powder Miner

I would probably prefer that it maybe have less hardpoints lest we make the craft heavier or more expensive than it should be, but I really like the idea of it being a twin-seater aircraft. Maybe it would be more capable in the missile-focused environment we are currently in.

[TheRedwolf]

I vote Hayat. Less could go wrong.

[Madman198237]

My biggest problem with the Galileo is that it's probably not going to reach Cheap. It's doubled the number of pilots and oxygen systems, and just generally doesn't lose much of anything as compared to the VVF. We're risking another aircraft in the same cost bracket, likely not helpful to us.

[Olith McHuman]

UFAF-F-45 'Hayat': (4) Madman, Kashyyk, TheRedwolf, McHuman
UFAF-AAM-45 'Guillotine': (0)
UFAF-F-45 'Galileo' Multi-Role Fighter: (2) ConscriptFive, Powder Miner

[RAM]

My biggest problem with the Galileo is that it's probably not going to reach Cheap. It's doubled the number of pilots and oxygen systems, and just generally doesn't lose much of anything as compared to the VVF. We're risking another aircraft in the same cost bracket, likely not helpful to us.

Wouldn't doubling the pilot's half the cost? Costs are based upon how many units they can equip, so halving the number of vehicles for a given number if personnel... Granted, given the number of vehicles is halved would also reduce their performance within their cost bracket...

[Kot]

"Missile Evader" or, simply, "Me", is two-seat delta wing single engine fighter. The majority of the light airframe is taken by the big aT-J40 engine and it's air intake which is interrupted in middle by a cone with radar inside, and certain avionics (Pitot tube) extending in front of that. The crew is split between the pilot and the engineer, where the engineer takes care of things such as radar and can (in addition to pilot) control various countermeasure packages, but also is supposed to watch the tail of the plane (for which there are quite a few mirrors in the cockpit) for any incoming missiles. The weaponry is a 30mm cannon with small ammo supply, as the majority of the work is supposed to be done by missiles, based on upper stage of a "Noose" missile, which are connected with the plane radar so the engineer can figure out when the missile is locked on, similar to our anti-air "Noose" emplacements. There are four hard points, which can be taken up by aforementioned missiles, additional fuel tanks or bombs. The plane also includes wing fences, hydraulic controls, air brakes and should landing provide difficult, drogue parachute. The plane is primarily meant to be fast, go high and still somewhat maneuverable, but primarily insanely fast, while still decently cheap, and relying on it's missiles to do the job, while being able to dodge enemy missiles easily.

It's Very Very Frightening Me, not Very Very Frightening Galileo.

My biggest problem with the Galileo is that it's probably not going to reach Cheap. It's doubled the number of pilots and oxygen systems, and just generally doesn't lose much of anything as compared to the VVF. We're risking another aircraft in the same cost bracket, likely not helpful to us.

Wouldn't doubling the pilot's half the cost? Costs are based upon how many units they can equip, so halving the number of vehicles for a given number if personnel... Granted, given the number of vehicles is halved would also reduce their performance within their cost bracket...

Well, I don't think it works like that and also I am pretty sure doubled number of pilots is not going to be that problematic, not to mention that at least some of our planes probably should theoretically exist in two seater variant for training anyways. I think the fact you're basing the Hayat on a VVF is much worse problem.

UFAF-F-45 'Hayat': (4) Madman, Kashyyk, TheRedwolf, McHuman
UFAF-AAM-45 'Guillotine': (0)
UFAF-F-45 'Galileo' Multi-Role Fighter: (2) ConscriptFive, Powder Miner
UFAF-F-45 "Missile Evader": (1) Kot

[Happerry]

The Galileo looks like the best option to me.

UFAF-F-45 'Hayat': (4) Madman, Kashyyk, TheRedwolf, McHuman
UFAF-AAM-45 'Guillotine': (0)
UFAF-F-45 'Galileo' Multi-Role Fighter: (3) ConscriptFive, Powder Miner, Happerry

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

UFAF-F-45 'Hayat': (4) Madman, Kashyyk, TheRedwolf, McHuman
UFAF-AAM-45 'Guillotine': (0)
UFAF-F-45 'Galileo' Multi-Role Fighter: (3) ConscriptFive, Powder Miner, Happerry, Zanzetkuken

Would prefer slightly higher rate of fire for the main gun since there is only one (nothing excessive, just something minor) and the fights are high speed, but it should still be good.