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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Powder Miner]

UFAF-ARS-44 "Shield Maiden" Definitve I believe: (3) Wizgrot, Piratejoe, Powder Miner
Tiger Armor 2:(1) Kashyyk
Saltseeker:(3) eS, Happerry, Stabby
UF-PTB-44 "Kurtz":(1)
Valkyrie:(0)
UF-GCS-44 "Shield Maiden" Pattern IV.(1) Quake

What do you mean? There is literally no design that can possibly defend the entirety of our military, designs work on different fronts, you don't just have a one-size-fits-all that every area of our military uses. This one works on the air front, and though we have a decent ground base now, they're absolutely kicking our ass in the air, which has both been a problem in the jungle and has been slaughtering us in the sea... and considering that air is our usual advantage, and that so much of our arsenal depends upon the air, leaving it in the state of affairs marked by the balefire has the strong capacity to lose us the game right now. I think we would have won in the desert last turn, but they have a research-credit backed design and a revision, and assuming that we're going to be peachy-keen in the desert is a bad bet. Sure, the navy does affect the desert, but I don't think that it affects the desert ENOUGH for us to justify blowing our entire design on an ASM, ESPECIALLY when you guys apparently want to make an ASM off of an obsolete model when we're likely very shortly about to have a far better variety of missile. This really seems to be both a failure in terms of thinking of just this turn and in terms of thinking about turns beyond this turn, and I'm really not sure why you've picked this turn to be the one to push for an ASM. Hell, air affects the sea too, so if your concern IS our sea issues, definitively fixing the air front is a necessity.

WITH THAT SAID, I don't feel like gambling this on a radar decomplexification where applying the Fair Fight (and you should edit this in, Quake, increasing its range, it was THAT that Sensei suggested as a 4-6 difficulty design) would be equally possible, equally effective, and in fact easier to do. Decomplexifying our radar doesn't necessarily fit into all of our planes, when much of their radar advantage comes from their having cheaper planes to mount their radar too, it's a complex task that will significantly raise our difficulty, and it won't mess with their AA shells like an improved-range Fair Fight would -- and let me remind you that their proxy fuze AA shells have made our lives difficult in the air for a while now. What you guys are proposing as a "definitive" Shield Maiden is actually going to be harder and have less effect than Quake's version.

Edit: nvm i've been told their shell fuzes are on electrostatic too lmao

[QuakeIV]

I mean, if we go with wizgrots thing I think thats going to backfire badly.  Its basically a huge upgrade to our radar (smaller, not complex, can detect missiles at significant range) which would be a deisgn in its own right, and which I would argue doesn't particularly help us, plus flares, plus some unspecified changes to the fair fight.

I am renaming my proposal to avoid association with wizgrots thing.

UFAF-ARS-44 "Shield Maiden" Definitve I believe: (3) Wizgrot, Piratejoe, Powder Miner
Tiger Armor 2:(1) Kashyyk
Saltseeker:(3) eS, Happerry, Stabby
UF-PTB-44 "Kurtz":(1)
Valkyrie:(0)
UF-APS-44 "Burning Tiger":(1) Quake

e:  It already massively extends the fair fights range, and adds electrostatic jamming capability.  Fair fight does 300 meters, so I said it should do 1000m just to massively overdo the needed range to deal with their flak fuses.

e2:  I hear tell of sensei mocking us getting specific with numbers, so I shall make it vaguer and just mandate that it be effective against their flak as well as their missiles and hope that works out.

[RAM]

Well, it could be mounted on rockets to be projected in front of surface assets... The underlying principal is consistent regardless of what is being protected, so why not protect everything?

[Powder Miner]

UFAF-ARS-44 "Shield Maiden" Definitve I believe: (2) Wizgrot, Piratejoe
Tiger Armor 2:(1) Kashyyk
Saltseeker:(3) eS, Happerry, Stabby
UF-PTB-44 "Kurtz":(1)
Valkyrie:(0)
UF-APS-44 "Burning Tiger":(2) Quake, PM

I waffled esrlier because it didn’t look like it would get support and because I’d just embarrassed myself by being wrong in detail about something but I still think that the radar is a gamble we can’t afford t take — and I didn’t even realize the Shield Maiden was trying to electrostatic jam too. What you guys want to do sounds impossible to me. The flares and chaff are relatively significant, and the fair fight upgrades are too, that’s already sounding hard enough without trying to get some really good cheap radar on top of that, EVEN IGNORING the difficulty of fitting radar onto the Streak potentially.

[Jilladilla]

UFAF-ARS-44 "Shield Maiden" Definitve I believe: (2) Wizgrot, Piratejoe
Tiger Armor 2:(1) Kashyyk
Saltseeker:(3) eS, Happerry, Stabby
UF-PTB-44 "Kurtz":(1)
Valkyrie:(0)
UF-APS-44 "Burning Tiger":(3) Quake, PM, Jilladilla

[Light forger]

UFAF-A-44 ‘Manta’
The Manta is a next generation CAS aircraft designed to replace our ailing Haast. It’s a twinjet, low wing, wide delta, twinseater. The turbofans are a stripped down simpler version of the VV’s with hopeful only moderately degraded performance. In the venerable spirit of the Haast the Manta comes with significant amount and arms and armor. In addition to the ‘bathtub’ used by the Haast the manta makes use of a armored engine shroud to improve the durability of it’s turbines. For missile defense the Manta carry what is techiably know as a “shitton’ of flares mounted on the inside of the fuselage just behind the exhaust.
For it’s armaments it comes with twin 30mm autocannons load in addition to a generous amount of ammo for each the cannons are also refitted with AP ammo scaled up from the horsekiller Mk.2. Thanks to it’s low delta wing the aircraft can carry it’s two ton payload in just about any configuration imaginable. The plane makes use of a large weapons bay able to be readily configured to hold just about anything we could need in the future. For now however it holds sometimes holds a radar system shameless stolen from the VV and useable by the co-pilot. To make the most of its CAS role the aircraft also includes airbrakes to allow it to rapidly decrease speed for attacks runs. Thanks to the engine’s afterburner the plane should be able to quickly regain the lost speed.

UFAF-ARS-44 "Shield Maiden" Definitve I believe: (2) Wizgrot, Piratejoe
Tiger Armor 2:(1) Kashyyk
Saltseeker:(3) eS, Happerry, Stabby
UF-PTB-44 "Kurtz":(1)
Valkyrie:(0)
UF-APS-44 "Burning Tiger":(3) Quake, PM, Jilladilla
UFAF-A-44 ‘Manta’ (1): Lightforger

[QuakeIV]

per eS's request in the discord

UFAF-ARS-44 "Shield Maiden" Definitve I believe: (2) Wizgrot, Piratejoe
Tiger Armor 2:(1) Kashyyk
Saltseeker:(2) Happerry, Stabby
UF-PTB-44 "Kurtz":(1)
Valkyrie:(0)
UF-APS-44 "Burning Tiger":(4) Quake, PM, Jilladilla, eS
UFAF-A-44 ‘Manta’ (1): Lightforger

[ConscriptFive]

As much as I hate defensive tech, I'm going with the flare pack.  We need air superiority back.

UFAF-ARS-44 "Shield Maiden" Definitve I believe: (2) Wizgrot, Piratejoe
Tiger Armor 2:(1) Kashyyk
Saltseeker:(2) Happerry, Stabby
UF-PTB-44 "Kurtz":(0)
Valkyrie:(0)
UF-APS-44 "Burning Tiger":(5) Quake, PM, Jilladilla, eS, ConscriptFive
UFAF-A-44 ‘Manta’ (1): Lightforger

[Light forger]

To explain the manta a bit I going to point out two things. First off only two planes of note at the moment don't mount flares. The Haast and the lighting streak, making a new CAS corrects half of that issues right off the bat. Further more with the ore Cannalan is deploying more ships notably flak cruises and battleships. The only reason we are a a mere naval disadvantage is due to the fact we have more battleships. Which brings us to point two we can't advance anywhere if they have a major naval advantage. Their ships can bombard every single lane we could attack next turn. Thanks to the addition flak cruisers and their proximity flak the Haast isn't effective anymore. However a jet CAS would have a much easier time with flak as it would be able to out speed it a lot of the time. Also thanks to the said ore their bull is getting cheaper. 30mm cannons would help too negate that as well. For our revision we could finally fix our flares(also possibly fix the Q since that should be trivial now).

[Madman198237]

UFAF-F-44 'Lightning Streak II'
The Lightning Streak is a workable fighter, but with the advent of missile warfare it needs improvements. two hardpoints are added under the front of the fuselage, capable of holding up to 250kg (somewhat more than 500lb, capable of carrying all A2A/A2G missiles that have been developed, IIRC) each. Because of their limited capacity, the hardpoints do not have to be terribly large or heavy. A "blister" is added under the middle (or towards the back) of the fuselage, holding the small Deadliest Ray present in the VVF/VVF-Q. The radar's design plans have been rigorously adapted for easy production (de-[Complex] the thing, I can't think of appropriate fluff right now). A set of flares is included in three-flare groups set around the fuselage, set into the fuselage as much as possible and externally streamlined. These flares are sequentially triggered from the cockpit (in the groups of three). These are based on our existing flares, but reworked to burn at approximately the same temperature as the jet engines in use on the plane and fly much further than our existing flares, by using simple solid rockets (With the PAROI logo, of course). To maintain performance, parts of the aircraft's fuselage are made out of aluminum, saving weight.

If the pilots complain about reduced defense, we can just tell them that thin aluminum doesn't (sometimes) detonate cannon shells (citations needed), and thus they're even SAFER in the new Lightning Streaks (Your mileage survivability may very, see operator's manual for details).

Gets us radar in fighters, plus flares to defend against our missiles, and the aircraft itself is already superior to the Cannalan planes, and Cheap. If we can keep it Cheap (the Canners managed it with the Spearhead-C), we can probably take long strides to taking back the air.

Oh, and it gets us hardpoints on a Cheap fighter. Which is probably very, very good.

[ConscriptFive]

Love the Lightning II but those hard points are terribly placed.  Backblast from the missiles will roast anything further back on the underside of the fuselage, namely the electronics blister.  Why not put them on the wings?

[Madman198237]

The wings are too thin and unreinforced. However, if you just let the missiles fall some distance before igniting the rocket engines (which they should do anyway, given that there's been no mention of missiles being un-launchable from centerline hardpoints)

[ConscriptFive]

Hmm, maybe.  Also no mention of gunnery at all?  Gunfighters are obsolete but there should at least be something there.

[Madman198237]

I only listed the things that are being CHANGED. The Lightning Streak already has 3 autocannon in the nose.

[Sensei]

If don't see any new votes soon, I'll proceed with Burning Tiger.