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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[evictedSaint]

We won't get the actual design without an espionage credit, but we WILL gain "experience" with, hopefully, flight-control systems and the guidance package.

What is your basis for saying this?

[Madman198237]

The sheer OP-ness of using revisions to outright steal technology?

Sorry, but I'll have to pull a quote from the rules and explain my interpretation (if you want me to) later. I've got to finish part of a project right now.

[RAM]

It is an old design. Much of the game involves counters and the rest is advancement. There are precious few designs that wouldn't be an outright waste. Still, that said, if there were a way to seek the experience and not the design. Maybe working from damaged parts. See how things were done, but no complete models. See how the fuel worked but not know how to produce it...

I searched the thread for revision steal design and this was the second hit...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Revision Phase is your opportunity to fix problems or make changes to your existing designs. This works like the design phase, but the changes you can make are smaller (see difficulty, below). You can also attempt to reverse-engineer enemy designs, if you have gained ground in a theatre where the design which you want to reverse-engineer was fought.

If we take ground at Sea, we can follow up next turn by stealing one of their designs with a revision.

That, I believe, is the only way we can gain a comparative advantage. Use 1 revision to steal a design.

Of course, that requires that we actually push the enemy back in the first place.

And, umm, yes, that is quoted from the first post of the thread, so it is a thing...

You can only do it to an existing design that you have defeated. Overpowered it may be, but I have yet to see proof of such.

[Madman198237]

You can reverse-engineer things, yes. But do note that Ebbor isn't the GM, and the actual GM's quote doesn't specifically state whether we'd get the whole design one way or another, possibly because it's ruled by rolls, but also possibly because stealing whole designs would be really, really, really badly salt-inducing.

[Sensei]

Well, we're currently tied. We just need one tie breaker and we're back on track.

[Rockeater]

Wild Ride (w/ research credit) (7): QuakeIV, Zanzetkuken, NAV, Funk, SC, eS, Rockeater
UFN-HA-43 'Frightening' (2): Powder Miner, Madman
UFAF-F-43 "Grey Owl' (1): Lightforge
UFS-DD-43 "Arbalest" (6): RAM, Kashyyk, NUKE9.13, McHuman, Taricus, Happerry
Whalesong 1 : 10ebbor10

[Madman198237]

Wild Ride (w/ research credit) (7): QuakeIV, Zanzetkuken, NAV, Funk, SC, eS, Rockeater
UFN-HA-43 'Frightening' (1): Powder Miner
UFAF-F-43 "Grey Owl' (1): Lightforge
UFS-DD-43 "Arbalest" (7): RAM, Kashyyk, NUKE9.13, McHuman, Taricus, Happerry, Madman
Whalesong 1 : 10ebbor10

No love for ultimate CAS. I see how it is. I despise the idea of doing the missile now instead of later. I'm sorry, but I'm too tired to propose an alternative now. I just think that the missile before the reverse-engineering is the worst possible way to go about it.

So have a contrary vote of contrariness instead of anything substantial. You even get some I'm-sick-and-sleep-deprived ramblings as bonus content!

[Light forger]

Wild Ride (w/ research credit) (7): QuakeIV, Zanzetkuken, NAV, Funk, SC, eS, Rockeater
UFN-HA-43 'Frightening' (1): Powder Miner
UFS-DD-43 "Arbalest" (7): RAM, Kashyyk, NUKE9.13, McHuman, Taricus, Happerry, Madman
Whalesong 1 : 10ebbor10
UFN-K-43 "Proteus" (1): Lightforger

The sonar on the proteus has been ripped off and replaced with dolphin torpedoes up scaled to 1 ton. The why I see it their naval general give them a full advantage tier. Where as their small ships and torpedoes are giving them a minor advantage to counter our own from more battleships. So if we not only counter theirs but, replace it with our own we should reach parity which is about the best we can do in one design.
The wild ride doesn't deal with our main issue of their smaller ships only improves our ability to kill their larger vessels. Also they way it paints target is pretty subpar; at longer distances the accuracy is going to be crap and, if you close in you may as well shoot/torpedo the enemy vessels.

[Sensei]

Hey someone broke the tie- oh.

[andrea]

Deleted

[Powder Miner]

Wild Ride (w/ research credit) (: QuakeIV, Zanzetkuken, NAV, Funk, SC, eS, Rockeater, Powder Miner
UFN-HA-43 'Frightening' (0):
UFS-DD-43 "Arbalest" (7): RAM, Kashyyk, NUKE9.13, McHuman, Taricus, Happerry, Madman
Whalesong 1 : 10ebbor10
UFN-K-43 "Proteus" (1): Lightforger

witness meeeee

[NUKE9.13]

Aww geez. Not to be difficult, but can't we have a little more time? I think both leading projects are bad ideas- one VH for experience we could get with a revision, the other VH for something that ain't that impressive.

Like, I'm not going to strategically keep my vote on the Arbalest. Swap me over to the Whalesong (on phone, or would do it myself). And I hope that either Sensei grants us a little more time, or people suddenly rush off of both projects.

PPE: godsdamnit. Why are people so eager to repeat work that could be stolen instead?

[Powder Miner]

I'm not the greatest fan of the missile but if it's going to be either the missile or the design we've been warned against...

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Aww geez. Not to be difficult, but can't we have a little more time? I think both leading projects are bad ideas- one VH for experience we could get with a revision, the other VH for something that ain't that impressive.

Like, I'm not going to strategically keep my vote on the Arbalest. Swap me over to the Whalesong (on phone, or would do it myself). And I hope that either Sensei grants us a little more time, or people suddenly rush off of both projects.

PPE: godsdamnit. Why are people so eager to repeat work that could be stolen instead?

Completing command.  Put on Andrea's vote on the Arbalest, as it was removed due to a misunderstanding in the Discord (thought will denote with a (?)) in case they do not want that.

Wild Ride (w/ research credit) (: QuakeIV, Zanzetkuken, NAV, Funk, SC, eS, Rockeater, Powder Miner
UFN-HA-43 'Frightening' (0):
UFS-DD-43 "Arbalest" (6 (Maybe 7?)): RAM, Kashyyk, McHuman, Taricus, Happerry, Madman, Andrea (Maybe?)
Whalesong 2 : 10ebbor10, NUKE9.13
UFN-K-43 "Proteus" (1): Lightforger

witness meeeee

[RAM]

We were warned that Arbalest was difficult. Very difficult even. Mostly because competent sonar is apparently very difficult and it is on top of a new destroyer hull and the application of several recently-developed technologies. I think that it was more of a "this is much harder than you think" that "this is flat-iout impossible" but I could be wrong. It might be a "please oh please why won't you people just do a technology design once in a while you keep throwing designs for a state-of-the art vehicle, oh and throw in several decades of electronics experience for free!"...

Really, it is sort of a fundamental problem with this game that a ship has way more parts than a gun, but both can be a design...