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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Powder Miner]

(3) Attack Top Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby
(1) Attack Middle Lane: Powder Miner
(5) Attack Bottom Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Jilladilla, Powder Miner
(4?) Tell Himmler to Fuck Off: eS, Powder Miner
         But be polite about it: NUKE9.13, Stabby
(1) Plan Diplomatic Incident: Jilladilla
(0) Contribute to the Holocaust:

[RAM]

(3) Attack Top Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby
(1) Attack Middle Lane: Powder Miner
(5) Attack Bottom Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Jilladilla, Powder Miner
(2+3=5) Tell Himmler to Fuck Off: eS, Powder Miner
         But be polite about it: NUKE9.13, Stabby, RAM
(1) Plan Diplomatic Incident: Jilladilla
(0) Contribute to the Holocaust:

[Kot]

Invite the German diplomats to have a warm shower.

[Madman198237]

That is LITERALLY what Barbarossa *IS*.

Depending on whether or not we can do it (I'm going to go post the question in Discord so Sensei answers faster) I'm either voting for Barbarossa or Schrodinger's Diplomats.

[Kot]

This isin't what Barbarossa is.
What I mean is literal warm shower. Like, make it creepy as fuck but not overly. Watch the reactions.

[RAM]

How exactly does murdering the diplomats avoid the need to address the diplomatic situation? We really can't just stop them from delivering the message, and they almost certainly have confirmation that we have already received it. And if we want to pull a whole "you must help us against these people who attacked you" thing then, well, that won't even slightly work. They will probably blame us for not providing security in our region. That is not exactly an alliance-killer but it does put us at a disadvantage. Mostly though, it creates a situation in which they have attacked our allies, and thus we are ourselves caught in exactly the same "We must take a firm stand against this atrocity" trap. We will be doubly imposed upon to give in to their demands as a sign of the new sense of unity that has been forged by the murder of diplomats by our shared enemy. Or do we expect "What do we care, they were your diplomats" to be a viable diplomatic strategy?

I am happy to maintain our sovereignty, these are our citizens and their fate is our business. We are in a technological alliance, not a social one. The sooner that we just front up and make that clear the sooner they will either stop with these requests or break off the relationship entirely. Or, if we really oppose Germany so much(and please don't forget that while the Nazi's did get up to some particular naughtiness, no side was innocent, Foreignia included.), just end the alliance and be done with it.

If you want to get clever with diplomacy, then you need to actually be clever about it. Throwing our allies into an enemy fleet is highly unlikely to look like an accident(especially after we have already been recalcitrant on this issue), and even if it does, it won't just magically make our problems go away. Also, murdering diplomats is the magic key that unlocks all sorts of bad things. You only want to do it if your whole plan is to serve up a giant finger in the most insulting gesture that can be mustered(Which you all notably refused to do when we had the chance to use the pride of the enemy fleet as a landing craft) or have plotted out every tiny little detail so precisely that it makes Machiavelli's image look like Marie Antoinette's. Note that planning at that level generalyl doesn't involve enemy fleets, it typically avoids anything remotely as hostile as an enemy nor remotely as large and involved as a fleet, and if we aren't involving an enemy fleet then we may as well just shoot them all lest we risk a real enemy fleet turning up at an inopportune moment...

And I would prefer not to involve any seal gods.

[Madman198237]

Most of what you said was nonsense, however the benefits are clear:

Being able to say 'We killed Hitler's right-hand Nazi' is incredible in several ways (Which you should be able to figure out) and also we can claim that we complied even if we didn't.

The rationale was posted in Discord, but for those of you who don't watch Discord:

I believe that if we refute the Axis for their evils (And make public note of it) we will probably be able to reduce Allied support of Cannala. Cannala won't be fighting a war against the Axis anymore, they'll be fighting a war for the sake of taking territory for themselves. It won't be supporting the Allied war effort, and won't be funded as a result.

[Light forger]

(4) Attack Top Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Lightforger
(1) Attack Middle Lane: Powder Miner
(6) Attack Bottom Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Jilladilla, Powder Miner, Lightforger
(2+3=5) Tell Himmler to Fuck Off: eS, Powder Miner
         But be polite about it: NUKE9.13, Stabby, RAM
(1) Plan Diplomatic Incident: Jilladilla
(1) Breaks ties and Denounce the Nazis: Lightforger
(0) Contribute to the Holocaust:

[RAM]

Wars basically aren't fought over good and evil, the allies won't just dump The Can because they aren't "fighting the good fight" and it is worth noting that we were not involved with The Axis when The Allies invited The Can to join them. The Nazi's have supporters all over the world, picking a fight with them is not a good/evil act, it is a political one, and nobody likes people who kill diplomats. At best we can cut a deal with the allies where we publicly denounce the Axis as a propaganda stunt. Certainly it is a huge propaganda stunt, but it really won't carry us very far, and nobody will trust us after we break an alliance in a time of war no matter how noble our cause.

 If we pull it off without being caught, we gain, at best, a closer relationship with Germany, which means more commitments to them.
 If we want to snub them, then we can do that directly. We believe in winning the war with the Axis, but we have our own social engineering projects and refuse to compromise them. No need to be crass, but we ought to be firm and clear.
 If it goes wrong then we just lose on every front.
 If we go for some sort of political collusion beforehand, arrange things with the Allies or Soviets for their maximum benefit, then we get... pretty much nothing, maybe a free meal... They really aren't trustworthy and we have no leverage.

[Madman198237]

You ever heard of Finland?

[Funk]

(5) Attack Top Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Lightforger, Funk
(1) Attack Middle Lane: Powder Miner
(6=7) Attack Bottom Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Jilladilla, Powder Miner, Lightforger, Funk
(2+3+1=6) Tell Himmler to Fuck Off: eS, Powder Miner, Funk
         But be polite about it: NUKE9.13, Stabby, RAM
(2) Plan Diplomatic Incident: Jilladilla, Funk
(1) Breaks ties and Denounce the Nazis: Lightforger
(0) Contribute to the Holocaust:

[Kot]

In the peace treaty of 1947, during which the Minor Axis powers resumed existence as sovereign nations, Finland lost considerable amount of land to Soviet Union, was forced to pay war reparations and had severe restrictions on it's military imposed up until 1990s.
Italy lost nearly all it's overseas territory, it's borders with France were changed, and was also forced to pay reparations.
Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria also lost territory. Hungary gave land to Czechoslovakia and Romania, Romania lost land to Soviet Union and Bulgaria while Bulgaria lost land to Greece and Yugoslavia. Again, all of them were forced to pay reparations. Out of all these, only Bulgaria had retained a part of territory that they conquered in recent years.
How deeply the main Axis powers, Japan and Germany were fucked is pretty obvious, so...

In the end, even if we change sides AND win, there is very severe chance we will have to restore Cannala and pay reparations to them under threat of invasion. Certainly that is very Sensei-like move, fucking the winning side in ass and leaving them defeated.

(6) Attack Top Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Lightforger, Funk, Kot
(1) Attack Middle Lane: Powder Miner
(8) Attack Bottom Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Jilladilla, Powder Miner, Lightforger, Funk, Kot
(2+3+1=6) Tell Himmler to Fuck Off: eS, Powder Miner, Funk
         But be polite about it: NUKE9.13, Stabby, RAM
(2) Plan Diplomatic Incident: Jilladilla, Funk
(1) Breaks ties and Denounce the Nazis: Lightforger
(1) Contribute to the Holocaust: Kot ()

[VoidSlayer]

(6) Attack Top Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Lightforger, Funk, Kot
(1) Attack Middle Lane: Powder Miner
(8) Attack Bottom Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Jilladilla, Powder Miner, Lightforger, Funk, Kot
(2+3+1=7) Tell Himmler to Fuck Off: eS, Powder Miner, Funk
         But be polite about it: NUKE9.13, Stabby, RAM, voidslayer
(2) Plan Diplomatic Incident: Jilladilla, Funk
(1) Breaks ties and Denounce the Nazis: Lightforger
(1) Contribute to the Holocaust: Kot ()

We just have to win before 1947 with designs actually in demand in the field.

[Madman198237]

(7) Attack Top Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Lightforger, Funk, Kot, Madman
(1) Attack Middle Lane: Powder Miner
(9) Attack Bottom Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Jilladilla, Powder Miner, Lightforger, Funk, Kot, Madman
(4) Tell Himmler to Fuck Off (impolitely): eS, Powder Miner, Funk, Madman
      (4) The same but be polite about it: NUKE9.13, Stabby, RAM, voidslayer
(2) Plan Diplomatic Incident: Jilladilla, Funk
(1) Breaks ties and Denounce the Nazis: Lightforger
(1) Contribute to the Holocaust: Kot

Apparently, assassinating Himmler won't help us much. Unless you guys are willing to pull an about-face and denounce the Nazis and everything they stand for, I'm just voting for the 'Get out of our country's internal politics, this is an alliance of science, nothing more, nothing less.' option.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

(7) Attack Top Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Lightforger, Funk, Kot, Madman
(1) Attack Middle Lane: Powder Miner
(9) Attack Bottom Lane: eS, NUKE9.13, Stabby, Jilladilla, Powder Miner, Lightforger, Funk, Kot, Madman
(4) Tell Himmler to Fuck Off (impolitely): eS, Powder Miner, Funk, Madman
      (4) The same but be polite about it: NUKE9.13, Stabby, RAM, voidslayer
(2) Plan Diplomatic Incident: Jilladilla, Funk
(1) Breaks ties and Denounce the Nazis: Lightforger
(1) Contribute to the Holocaust: Kot
(1) Diplomatically decline on the basis that the required shipping would require us to tie up resources in the form of transports and escorts, and we wish to win our war with Canalla as fast as possible so we can better contribute to the war in the greater Pacific regions and in Europe, in accordance with the prior deal we have struck for the ore resources.  We recognize that Germany could send her own ships for transport, but we respectfully decline as they would be more valuable fighting against the British fleets than acting as transports.: Zanzetkuken

With this method of declining, we largely back them into a corner of how to respond and can kick this issue down the line to the point where we can formally break ties with Germany when knowledge of what is occurring in the Holocaust becomes public knowledge, while not significantly changing our short term relations.