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Which team did you play in the last game?

Glorious Arstotzka
- 17 (16%)
Glorious Moskurg
- 13 (12.3%)
Ingloriously Didn't Play
- 76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106


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Author Topic: Intercontinental Arms Race: Finale  (Read 599822 times)

Taricus

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4605 on: July 02, 2017, 07:00:44 pm »

And weren't you the person complaining our shipbuilding was several turns behind the cannalans? Because the Victoria would be the perfect thing to give us parity there. The autoloader is less effective than handloading and can't switch shell type on the fly and the turboshaft engine is... well, shit. Not much to be gained from taking either.
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Jilladilla

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4606 on: July 02, 2017, 07:01:52 pm »

Except we could do the same with the twinblade.  We already have a cruiser.
Isn't the Victoria technically a battleship?

(Also can't we reverse engineer a Twinblade via normal, non-espionage, means? Finding a mostly intact Twinblade on the battlefield is likely much easier than a mostly intact Victoria...)
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evictedSaint

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4607 on: July 02, 2017, 07:11:50 pm »

It was referred to as a cruiser in the last report, iirc.

Madman198237

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4608 on: July 02, 2017, 07:32:17 pm »

The Victoria is a BATTLEcruiser. It does NOT fill the same role as the Cataphract, a heavy cruiser. Battlecruisers are meant for scouting an opponent's battle line and then taking their place in the battleship line. Because nobody has any sort of battleship, it's really just a battleship. Twelve inch (300mm) guns are NOT cruiser armament.
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Jilladilla

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4609 on: July 02, 2017, 07:34:26 pm »

It was referred to as a cruiser in the last report, iirc.

It was, likely because the official Cannalan designation for the ship is 'Battlecruiser'. But with its heavy armor, big guns and slow speed... The role it fills is that of a battleship. Admittedly it's likely a small battleship relatively speaking, but battleship none the less.
(Pretty much the same way the Khorne is described as a battleship in Cannalan design documents when other nations would likely call it a cruiser with way too much armor and guns)
TLDR: Cannala is horrible at classifying boats.
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4610 on: July 02, 2017, 07:47:14 pm »

It should be noted, if we steal the Victoria with the Espionage Credit, we would have ships that would fill every role of a Fast Carrier group (ie. Carriers, Battleships, Cruisers, and Destroyers).
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Light forger

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4611 on: July 02, 2017, 07:51:22 pm »

First off for the credit we should either steal the battlecruiser or wait for them to make a helicopter worth stealing. Also after huffing glue I'm back with my flying wing design.

UFAF-HF41-W 'Strife'
The strife is a flying wing heavy fighter(outfitted with folding wings for carrier use). It's armed with six 20mm autocannons located in a bump underneath the aircraft and is armored with 60mm bullet-proof glass, 20-30mm plates around the cockpit and, 10mm plates for the engines. The plane is controlled by wing mounted spoilers, fuselage mounted air-breaks and large hydraulic flaps. The plane is completely metal with an aluminum skin and it's frame reinforced with manganese steel at key points. It's powered by twin turbofans sunken into the fuselage.

Early worries stability proved to be mostly false. The plane yaw control was achieved by a mix of it's normal elevators and it's new spoilers. It's not quite as good a plane with a tail but, it's perfectly usable. The main issue found was the plane had a bad habit of 'drifting' do to it's lack of a tail.  This was corrected by a number of small design tweaks. First all of the planes guns and ammo was moved into a bump underneath the plane. The wings of the plane where then harshly swept back, it's still wider then long but, it helped a great deal. Finally the plane airfoils where changed to a null-pitch design. This cost a small amount of maneuverability but, the plane had plenty to spare.

The armament of six 20mm autocannons offers the plane massive killing power. The armor helps keep the plane from being killed by a single wing hit and, to further help keep the pilot alive all the plane's fuel is stored in the wings. The strife is built around 'boom and zoom' tactics not only using the air-frames minimal drag to enter high speed dives but, also using it's top notch climb rate to escape the fray after an attack. The plane is extremely maneuverable to the point in which pilots should be careful not to lose to much speed when executing extreme turns. The mix of it's new turbofans and it's air-frame means the strife has an excellent range and flight ceiling. As a technical point the mix of the plane's excellent lift, air-brakes and, flaps means the plane can fly extremely slow for a jet. This isn't a intended design feature but, is side effect of the plane's overall design.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In regards to the turbohaast I doubt we can get a 30mm with the same rate of fire as our current 20mm as part of an design. With that being said the Tbird will soon be cheap and having a expensive fighter to shore up our air-force(and stop Cannala from finally wising up and making a new fighter) would be a smart move. While the strife is likely going to be hard keep in mind the design is only doing three things. 1. make a flying wing air-frame, 2. make turbofans and, 3. hydraulic controls. Also a flying wing is perfectly possible here and, it was very nearly completed 1944. Finally think of how annoyed Cannala would be if we create one.

Quote from: Design Votes
Ana-G.A.P.-1941-D.F.A. Kriegblitz antimateriel rifle: 0
UFAF-A41 "Turbohaast": 3 Azzuro, Piratejoe, Powder Miner
UF-ERA-41 "Blood Eagle": 0
(1)UF-ATGM-41 Saltseeker' Pattern A: evictedSaint
UFS-41-W 'Virgil': 0
RDN-41-3 "DEADLIEST RAY": 0
UF-MT-41 'Demolisher': (4) Taricus, Kashyyk, Jilladilla, NAV
UF-HT-41 "Apocalypse"
Pattern A: 0
Pattern B: 0
Pattern C: 0
Pattern D: 0
Pattern E: 0
Pattern F: 0
(1) UF-A(A/T)R-41 'Saltstriker': 10ebbor10
(2) UF-ATR41 A  "Firefly":Sheb, Zanzetkuken
(1) UFAF-HF41-W 'Strife': Lightforger
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 11:15:00 pm by Light forger »
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4612 on: July 02, 2017, 08:05:36 pm »

Quote from: Design Votes
Ana-G.A.P.-1941-D.F.A. Kriegblitz antimateriel rifle: 0
UFAF-A41 "Turbohaast": 3 Azzuro, Piratejoe, Powder Miner
UF-ERA-41 "Blood Eagle": 0
(1)UF-ATGM-41 Saltseeker' Pattern A: evictedSaint
UFS-41-W 'Virgil': 0
RDN-41-3 "DEADLIEST RAY": 0
UF-MT-41 'Demolisher': (4) Taricus, Kashyyk, Jilladilla, NAV
UF-HT-41 "Apocalypse"
Pattern A: 0
Pattern B: 0
Pattern C: 0
Pattern D: 0
Pattern E: 0
Pattern F: 0
(1) UF-A(A/T)R-41 'Saltstriker': 10ebbor10
(2) UF-ATR41 A  "Firefly":Sheb
(1) UFAF-HF41-W 'Strife': Lightforger, Zanzetkuken
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Madman198237

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4613 on: July 02, 2017, 08:49:06 pm »

Alright, so, I'm going to propose something that, at first glance, seems unnecessary.
In Discord, Sensei said, directly, that we have, in all non-naval theaters, a minor air advantage. In other words, our general is propping us up. By changing that, we gain the following:

Extreme ground support. Without any hostile air competition, Haasts will run amok, pretty much destroying anything that pokes it's head into a jungle clearing. Also, good luck landing on Mt. Konstantin with aircraft everywhere. Basically, this does everything Turbohaast, the rocket proposals, the artillery proposals, and tanks do: It gives us an advantage to armored warfare.

The naval theater: If we steal the Vic, refit BOTH our carriers with steam catapults, and develop this fighter, we'll destroy Cannala's naval advantage, allowing us to land on the mountain-island lane, something I don't think we've yet been able to do.

Also: Whatever the Cannalans build, barring the Death Star itself, can be countered if we have complete air dominance.


So, my design. I propose an aircraft that is lightweight, basically built around a tremendously powerful engine and given just enough wings and tail to turn on a dime. The goal, of course, is to make the ultimate dogfighter.
The specs (Minus fluff) are basically:
Faster than any other aircraft yet built in our archipelago, by a HUGE margin.
Highly maneuverable, as maneuverable as it can be made.
Can take off from a Wasp Nest or Zheleznogorod, assuming catapult assist (By the way: Revise steam catapults onto all our carriers this turn).

Named after the greatest fear of all Canners, it's the newly remade
Quote from:
UFAF-F-41 Lightning Streak
True to it's namesake, the Lightning Streak promises to be a terrifyingly fast creature. Built purely for maneuverability and speed, the Sobriety is based around a brand-new "turbofan" type engine, a revolutionary new development from al-Tawrbinat Engine Technologies. This new engine promises greater acceleration and much better fuel consumption (Less is more), at the cost of some power. The plane is built around a single one of the new aT-J20 series turbofans. These turbofans are built to a much higher spec that the previous aT-J00-series turbojets, having incredibly better thrust and acceleration, and utilizing a fuel reinjection system at the end of the engine, called an "afterburner", for greater thrust, at higher fuel costs, for short periods of time. The rest of the plane is designed solely for maneuverability, using every trick we've learned and some we've invented just now, including an almost completely aluminum frame with steel, mangalloy if necessary (Or helpful), reinforcements in the wings, to increase g-stress tolerances. In the nose are three 25mm "Deinonychus" autocannon, basically a slightly larger version of the Velociraptor 20mm. The pilot has a wraparound ballistics glass canopy with minimal framing, giving excellent visibility. There is a stabilized gunsight and the controls are designed to be smooth and responsive, capitalizing on the maneuverability of the aircraft. The wings and tailplanes are swept to increase speed, balanced with maneuverability. The plane must be capable of taking off from a Z or Wasp Nest with a catapult assist. The design aims to be Expensive.

And yes, that IS assuming a revision for the Wasp Nest that gives it steam-catapult capability. But let's face it, both it and the Z need that revision to continue being worthwhile.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 09:24:07 pm by Madman198237 »
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RAM

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4614 on: July 02, 2017, 08:57:42 pm »

First off for the credit we should either steal the battlecruiser or wait for them to make a helicopter worth stealing. Also after huffing glue I'm back with my flying wing design.
Agreed, Victoria or save it. The Chopper is not ready to be stolen yet. The victoria is primarily for a different take on radar, aiming technology, heavy gun technology, and a much better hull than we can do with our own experience. As nice as it would be to have Victorias to throw at Cans, I am much more interested in taking the hull and using it in a faster design, with rockets! Maybe something in the 40cm range with altitude-guidance? If they fly in a straight line at more-or-less fixed altitude from sea-level then they could threaten enemy shipping at a hundred kilometres and accurately bombard known shore targets in the same fashion. And while mounting such a weapon on an archer would be super-fun, a battleship would have more stability for firing in coordinated spreads and such... Or if they have a consistent flight-speed, which they should, then we can put in timed distance fuzes and detonate a hatch to drop firecrackers as a sort of disposable heavy-bomber...

six 20mm autocannons ...
built around 'boom and zoom' tactics not only using the air-frames minimal drag to enter high speed dives but, also using it's top notch climb rate to escape ...
extremely maneuverable to the point in which pilots should be careful
I would like to get a gattling autocannon first. Six guns is a lot, if we could get similar volumes of fire from 2 rifles with three barrels each then it might be a good thing? I would really like a multiple barrel weapon to be part of our next fighter.
Fighters, in general, are largely being phased out about now due to formations and tactics to avoid dogfights. I worry that a flying wing's abilities are not predisposed towards flight-speed. It would be a very good fighter, but maybe we would be better served building an interceptor instead... Still, fighters are nice to have, the Mig-17 did its part well and was known for manoeuvrability... Certainly no reason to just say no to fighters on principal. Dogfights do happen and when they do such a craft would murder all comers.
Given the high manoeuvrability, I would avoid giving this to new pilots. As such it would probably be best to aim for very expensive...

Still, don't take this as hate, I like the idea and am just trying to comment on it in the hopes of encountering more solid justification or refinement of the proposal. There is nothing worse for a design than to be ignored...

In regards to the turbohaast I doubt we can get a 30mm with the same rate of fire as our current 20mm as part of an design.
A 3cm is what the Thunderbird II uses and it works very well against tanks. Now, granted, we are not designing an Avenger without its own design, but it is worth considering that a 3cm gun is regarded by many people as the pinnacle of close air support... Perhaps the design should be revised into a 3-barrel 3cm gun and we will try to make a turboprop Haast fit around it and acknowledge that a revision will be required... Or, again, we could start with a gattling autocannon, possibly even a 3cm one, then fit it onto a Haast and then fit a 2cm version onto a flying wing...
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Madman198237

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4615 on: July 02, 2017, 09:02:00 pm »

Except RAM, you forget that fighters ARE air combat RIGHT NOW, in game. Guided missiles won't take the gunfighting dogfighter out of popularity for DECADES.
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evictedSaint

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #4616 on: July 02, 2017, 09:25:04 pm »



Quote
Design: UFAF-JF-41 'Sobriety' Pattern A

Named after Cannala's greatest fear, the United Forenia Jet Fighter 'Sobriety' is Forenia's premiere fighter aircraft, using a single, large, centrally-mounted jet engine that runs the entire length of the aircraft.  The intake is split into two scoops on either side of the nose under the wings.  The wings are back-swept and form a "triangle" that terminates just before the elevator.  Without the need to keep the elevator elevated out of the jet exhaust (which is propelled out the rear of the plane) it is placed normally at the base of the single rudder.  Additionally, an air-brake system is installed on the rear of the aircraft that uses hydraulics to extend two panels of the fuselage outwards to dramatically increase drag and slow the aircraft down.  Without a propeller necessitating bulky timing gear or heavy rotor shafts, four AC41 20 mm's can be installed in the nose in-line with the aircraft.  A tear-drop shaped canopy gives the pilot greater view around him.  The plane uses tricycle landing gear by necessity, and comes equipped with gyroscopic reflective sights and every other amenity that a modern aircraft would need.

The Sobriety is designed to be fast; it is to be the end-all for air superiority. 


Updated the ACTUAL Sobriety.  Other Sobriety is plagurism. >:C

piratejoe

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4617 on: July 02, 2017, 09:37:11 pm »

Since we are adding aircraft designs now, may as well add this thing again....

Quote from: The UFAF-SHB-41 "Hammer of Forenia"
The UFAF-SHB-4X "Hammer of Forenia" Is designed by Joseph Izz Stalling, an ace Arstotzkan pilot of Forenia and part time designer who is also the same guy who designed the Ice giant, only this time he probably downed 10 vodka's before designing this titan of a bomber. The gargantuan bomber has a grand total of 10 large turboprop engines on its massive wings that are air and water cooled with self sealing tanks with five on each wing, the engines are designed to be as powerful as they could with a lot of fuel in the self sealing tanks, it has this many engines as its designed to have a max payload of around about 20 tonnes. It is armed with 12 turrets, all armed with 2 20mm autocannons with 2 turrets at the top, two at the bottom, two on the left, two on the right, two on the tail and two on the nose. The whole cabin is pressurized and the bombardier is in a compartment just above the bomb bay that is connected with the main cabin and has bombing sights for aiming, naturally, there are oxygen masks in case of a breach by enemy fire. The design is also armored quite a bit as to increase survivability, with critical parts of the fraim and the armour around the engines made out of manganese steel. The reinforced retractable landing gear are located in the wings and near the nose and are quite large to support the aircraft. The aircraft also has two loudspeaker systems in addition to the radio in the front, one labeled "For ordering the crew around" that is mostly to tell the bombardier they are near the target. And the other labeled "Taunt" which is just attached to a loudspeaker that is outside the aircraft, mostly for moral reasons. There are also eight small compartments near the nose and near the tail for snacks and maybe a pistol if any of the aircrew wants to take one, just in case the aircraft somehow crashes and they land behind enemy lines, near these compartments, there is the lockers for parachutes. There is also a cargo and civilian version of the design next to the military version, but the civilian version wasn't taken here for discussion and instead was given to GloryStar Airlines.
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Madman198237

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4618 on: July 02, 2017, 09:39:21 pm »

But what advantage does it get us this turn? So why are we re-adding it as a design!?!?
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piratejoe

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4619 on: July 02, 2017, 10:11:54 pm »

Simple. Bombing the ever living hell out of the Cannalians homeland. Mostly posting it to just kinda make it seen that it exists.
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