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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Strongpoint]

I have thought it over and my offer is

Let them have initiative in the jungles for this turn. We need to win the sea and to win the sea we need to win the war in the air We will need three turns of consistent winning to benefit from taking jungle and its oil. It just too long. We should start to push the naval war. Win it, develop a lander and attack tundra denying them titanium and making upgraded falcon more expensive or attack the archipelago and wreck their aviation. Let's not go for the easy obvious route, try win by unorthodox plan.

UFAF-D39-Hornet(D means dogfighter.)
The Hornet is the latest and most advanced in United Forenia's Air Force. This small and compact aircraft is powered by a powerful but compact V-12 engine coming with two innovative features. The first one is a two stage supercharger to improve high attitude performance beyond any other aircraft used in Forenia-Cannala war. The second one is  methanol-water injection allowing to have short power bursts in heated dogfight or while taking off from the carrier.  For weapons, it carries two UF-AC39 autocannons on its wings and two Sorraria machine guns in the nose. UF-AC39 is modernized AS-AC18 developed exclusively for aircraft use. Modernization trier to reduce weight of both the gun and the ammo while retaining current performance. Having a narrow airframe it has no need for folding wing to fit in the aircraft carrier. Like Haast it has a Magnesium alloy armor to protect the pilot. Built for nimbleness hornet is relatively hard to pilot making it quite unforgiving for inexperienced pilots. In the same time aces can make maneuvers impossible on every other aircraft. Hornet has two bomb mounts on its wings but those usually used for 2*50kg external fuel tanks with possibility to replace by similar sized bombs when needed

Target cost is 5 ore (3 aluminium, 1 magnesium) and 4 oil (5 with fuel tanks)


It is a proposal and not a vote yet. Thoughts?

Just think about it. Haast gave us a lot of experience, following it with another fighter can give us a real advantage in the air and hopefully in the sea. Yes we may lose jungle in that case we follow with heavy tank to be sure that we hold the desert. Winning a point of jungle doesn't worth go\iving them a breating room in the naval war. We almost reached the advantage here. Hornet can maintain or even tip it over.

We lost our chance to get 4\4 in jungles by going for the Navy and airforce. Should we start ignoring it, that sacrifice will be for nothing.

[evictedSaint]

No - revising the Haast will not make it a decent fighter.  It is fundamentally wrong for that type of combat; wide wings, heavy defenses, large armament, bomber focus.  We'd be better off designing a dedicated dogfighter or just revising the aging Stinger.  Nm, misread some stuff.

We've yet to build a ground weapon this game.  We don't even have an APC, which is useful in both the tundra, islands, AND jungle.  Our air forces are fine for the time being, and if we're going to put something out to sea a better carrier is more of a solid advantage.

And we are seven - SEVEN - sections of territory behind Cannala.  We can't really afford to keep shrugging off losses.

[3_14159]

[Strongpoint]

No - revising the Haast will not make it a decent fighter.  It is fundamentally wrong for that type of combat; wide wings, heavy defenses, large armament, bomber focus.  We'd be better off designing a dedicated dogfighter or just revising the aging Stinger.

It is not a revision it is a design. Nothing there even close to being a revision and I fail to see why you did that assumption.

[evictedSaint]

....that was weird, I totally misread your design as a fighter varient of the Haast, ahah.  Sorry about that.

Still, my second point stands - our air is still superior to Cannala's, and we need to put some effort into our ground forces.  A better carrier would provide a better naval advantage than a new fighter, I think.

Also, 3_14159: your map is wrong.  We have only one section of plains, not two.

[Kashyyk]

UF-39-APC "Croc": (4) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, evictedSaint, NAV
-Rename Bullfrog: (0)
-Rename Salamander and add flamethrower: (1) Kashyyk
UF-40-H/MB-T 'Demolisher': (1) Taricus
UF-HAT-39-B"Vanguard": (1) Khan Boyzitbig

[evictedSaint]

UF-39-APC "Croc": (4) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, evictedSaint, NAV, Kashyyk
-Rename Bullfrog: (0)
-Rename Salamander and add flamethrower: (1) Kashyyk
-Rename Salamander and upgun to 37mm's: (1) evictedSaint
UF-40-H/MB-T 'Demolisher': (1) Taricus
UF-HAT-39-B"Vanguard": (1) Khan Boyzitbig

[/quote]

[NAV]

UF-39-APC "Croc": (4) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, evictedSaint, NAV, Kashyyk
-Rename Bullfrog: (0)
-Rename Salamander and add flamethrower: (1) Kashyyk
-Rename Salamander and upgun to 37mm's: (2) evictedSaint, NAV
UF-40-H/MB-T 'Demolisher': (1) Taricus
UF-HAT-39-B"Vanguard": (1) Khan Boyzitbig

[Azzuro]

The Raider fires 30 mm's.  I suggest we up the armament to 37 mm's, which is about as big as we can get before it starts becoming a tank (or at least no more than 40 mm's to maintain anti-armor capabilities without capsizing).  The Raider has RHA, so it would need something of that caliber to stand a chance at pen'ing.

My suggested armament is a 37 mm autocannon with a 7.62 Sorria turret for anti-infantry abilities.  It wouldn't be too far fetched to have a 37 mm autocannon, since that was the armament of the Kingcobra.

Idea for Revision: Steam Catapult.  A steam-powered catapult to assist the Haast in takeoff in carrier operations.

@Sensei: what is preventing our carriers from launching night raids?

My suggested armament is 1 tonne of bombs.

Anyway, your suggested armament seems good. Possibly add a mount for a non-turreted Sorraia as well to be fired from a top hatch?

And I would rather do a completely new carrier, with larger everything rather than go for steam catapult at this stage. That would solve the Haast and allow us to field more aircraft as well. Our current length of 180m is simply too short (even for non-bomb Haast, tbh).

Just think about it. Haast gave us a lot of experience, following it with another fighter can give us a real advantage in the air and hopefully in the sea. Yes we may lose jungle in that case we follow with heavy tank to be sure that we hold the desert. Winning a point of jungle doesn't worth go\iving them a breating room in the naval war. We almost reached the advantage here. Hornet can maintain or even tip it over.

We lost our chance to get 4\4 in jungles by going for the Navy and airforce. Should we start ignoring it, that sacrifice will be for nothing.

The aerospace engineer in me really really wants to get an actual fighter too, but it is an enormous gamble conceding the last jungle section to them as they can then threaten our desert oil and will start gaining ore next next turn. Don't forget, they already control the other two central islands for Titanium and Aluminium already.

Also, proposal for revision: improve the AS-AC18. That poor thing is more than 20 years old at this point, yet 4/6 of the aircraft in our air force use it (except the Yellowjacket and the unarmed Reckless Effect). Improving it would also improve our armoured car MV21-AL, which together with amphibious APC may allow us to turn the tide in the jungle.

UF-39-APC "Croc": (5) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, evictedSaint, NAV, Kashyyk
-Rename Bullfrog: (0)
-Rename Salamander and add flamethrower: (1) Kashyyk
-Rename Salamander and upgun to 37mm's: (2) evictedSaint, NAV
-Rename Salamander and upgun to 37mm's AND flamethrower variants: (1) Azzuro
UF-40-H/MB-T 'Demolisher': (1) Taricus
UF-HAT-39-B"Vanguard": (1) Khan Boyzitbig

EDIT: Also Kashyyk, it's 'ford' not 'fjord' in your design. I don't think APCs capable of crossing fjords have been invented yet.

[piratejoe]

UF-39-APC "Croc": (5) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, evictedSaint, NAV, Kashyyk
-Rename Bullfrog: (0)
-Rename Salamander and add flamethrower: (1) Kashyyk
-Rename Salamander and upgun to 37mm's: (2) evictedSaint, NAV
-Rename Salamander and upgun to 37mm's AND flamethrower variants: (2) Azzuro, Piratejoe
UF-40-H/MB-T 'Demolisher': (1) Taricus
UF-HAT-39-B"Vanguard": (1) Khan Boyzitbig

[NAV]

UF-39-APC "Croc": (5) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, evictedSaint, NAV, Kashyyk
-Rename Bullfrog: (0)
-Rename Salamander and add flamethrower: (1) Kashyyk
-Rename Salamander and upgun to 37mm's: (1) evictedSaint
-Rename Salamander and upgun to 37mm's AND flamethrower variants: (3) Azzuro, Piratejoe, NAV
UF-40-H/MB-T 'Demolisher': (1) Taricus
UF-HAT-39-B"Vanguard": (1) Khan Boyzitbig

What should be modified about the AS-AC18?
Obviously changing the mechanism to allow for ammo types to be swapped without re calibrating the gun.

20 years isn't even that long. M2 browning has been in service for over 80 years. Some designs are like sharks.

[Sensei]

UF-39-APC "Croc"
Following the basic frame of a T-2 Breaker, this eight-wheeled all terrain vehicle is designed to carry a squad of infantry, plus support gear (tiger armour & squad weapons for example). It is fitted with a turreted AC-18 Autocannon and coaxial Sorraia. The armour is Medium all round and it is specifically designed to be as sloped as possible for maximum deflection, additionally, it uses one unit of Manganese alloy to improve armour further. It has a rear access ramp, as well as two side doors, all rubber sealed. It is designed to achieve 64km/h on smooth ground, 32km/h on rough, and has a pair of screw propellers to allow  slow  movement across water. It can thus fjord small waterways and swamps and float across larger ones.

Alright, before I go ahead, it's worth mentioning that eight wheels and sloped armor means it's not really on the frame of a T-2 Breaker any more. Also, is it all wheel drive or only on a single pair of driving wheels? One advantage of tracks is they give a large contact area but only require a single pair of driving wheels, making the transmission much simpler.

Also just for the record, the AS-AC18 is an "Advanced-Primer-Ignition Blowback" system, which means it is relatively light weight for a 20mm autocannon but can't easily swap ammo types.

[Baffler]

I'm not sure we can sneak in a flamethrower variant along with the base model in one design action, but it definitely needs the upgun and if we can get a flame variant in the process that sounds pretty great.

UF-39-APC "Croc": (6) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, evictedSaint, NAV, Kashyyk, Baffler
-Rename Bullfrog: (0)
-Rename Salamander and add flamethrower: (1) Kashyyk
-Rename Salamander and upgun to 37mm's: (1) evictedSaint
-Rename Salamander and upgun to 37mm's AND flamethrower variants: (4) Azzuro, Piratejoe, NAV, Baffler
UF-40-H/MB-T 'Demolisher': (1) Taricus
UF-HAT-39-B"Vanguard": (1) Khan Boyzitbig

If that works we can get around to fixing the Archer. It's been more than a year and we still haven't got around to fitting it with the intended gun, and now we can give it ship radar too.

[evictedSaint]

I'm getting flashbacks to the Haast, guys.

We cant make it X and Y and Z.

The flamethrower is overkill.  It's not an "Infantry Killing Vehicle", it's an "Armored Personnel Carrier".  37 mm upgun is plenty of stopping power and the Sorraia will do just fine to keep enemy soldiers at bay.

If we are going with eight wheel full-wheel-drive (dear god), then the transmission alone will be so complicated and heavy it will sink the damn thing.  We could do a large 4-wheel all-wheel-drive to cut weight because - let's be honest - the 37 mm turret is going to be pretty dang heavy.

I'm thinking of copying elements from the Russian BTR-82, with the armament upgunned to 37 mm's...but ultimately we will have to compromise. Let's try not to get too ambitious and end up accidentally building a heavy tank.

[Baffler]

You're probably right. Trying for a separate flamethrower version will just make the roll harder, if it's even allowed.

UF-39-APC "Croc": (6) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, evictedSaint, NAV, Kashyyk, Baffler
-Rename Bullfrog: (0)
-Rename Salamander and add flamethrower: (1) Kashyyk
-Rename Salamander and upgun to 37mm's: (2) evictedSaint, Baffler
-Rename Salamander and upgun to 37mm's AND flamethrower variants: (3) Azzuro, Piratejoe, NAV
UF-40-H/MB-T 'Demolisher': (1) Taricus
UF-HAT-39-B"Vanguard": (1) Khan Boyzitbig