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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Azzuro]

Neither of them should be a military challenge, but they will still take two turns to conquer and count as one of the fronts on which you can attack during your turn. You might also gain access to their resources if you join the relevant international alliance later, but this will take longer than just annexing them.

If Cominterm would get us a free territory, then I can't really argue against that, unless my brief moment of lucidity passes... If we get confirmation on that, then I guess someone can changemy voteto cominterm if they care to.

P.S. Has it really been 300 posts since the last turn?

We will gain the resources, but this will take longer than just annexing. However, having two extra chances to advance (one front advantage over the two turns needed to conquer an island) is nothing to sneeze at, considering that may turn the tide in the centre where the resources are.

If we annex and Cannala diplo-vassalises, they will be able to launch twice the attacks that we can. Not to mention that we'll also have to spend a design/revision on more TC.

[Taricus]

We need to have the capabilities to launch the attacks. So we'd likely make as much progress taking the rear island as we would taking the tundra/archipelago in hose two turns anyway.

[Powder Miner]

Negative from our perspective, and that's subjective. And it's the 'Good guys' that write history because they're left standing.

I mean... when you're talking about the Holocaust and the genocide of millions and millions of people as well as the attempted conquest of Europe, there really isn't that much room for debate.

[Taricus]

The problem is at the time, that sort of thing was seen as acceptable (Compared to today anyway). And we do have to take that into account ICly.

[Powder Miner]

The small-scale eugenics programs were acceptable, unfortunately. But the Holocaust was on a whole other level -- Eisenhower himself was so horrified when he rolled through the camps that he did his best to make sure it couldn't be denied Japan-style afer the fact.

[Azzuro]

The problem is at the time, that sort of thing was seen as acceptable (Compared to today anyway). And we do have to take that into account ICly.

You will have to provide a citation for that, because while 'passive' eugenics (disallowing the disabled from having children) was accepted, I'm pretty sure 'active' eugenics (as in exterminating an entire people for being 'genetically inferior') was not.

[Taricus]

@Powder: Yeah, but until they rolled into those camps, no-one really knew about them outside of the SS.

[Powder Miner]

We've already broken the everloving flying fuck out of the future knowledge barrier, I'm afraid, haha.

[andrea]

A final(maybe) argument for the axis:

VON BRAUN!

WUNDERWAFFE!

[Azzuro]

Argument for Allies voters:

You are gambling that Cannala will not pick Allies, which is really objectively is in their best interest to do given that their stuff is Good But Expensive, which an expense credit helps, and that the other island on their side is Allies as well. If Cannala picks Allies, we will lose, and if they immediately use the expense credit, that loss will translate into territorial loss for us which we can't match until the next turn. That may allow them to secure the Tundra and Archipelago by getting footholds on Plains and Mountains, giving them a resource advantage.

Argument for Axis voters:

Don't be the bad guys. Even for wunderwaffes.

In conclusion, VOTE COMINTERN. For more rockets and epic national anthems!

[Taricus]

I'd rather be bad than worst, thank you

[andrea]

Comintern was quite bad as well, yes.

In terms of bonuses, it is still better than allies, so it would be my second pick.

in terms of siding with bad guys... eg. Finland did, and they are not considered bad guys. Comintern isn't better anyway.

[Azzuro]

I will concede that the Comintern did do their fair share of atrocities and war crimes, but not on the level of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, and the ambitions thereof.

Anway, actual argument for Axis voters:

While the Research Credit is useful, I would argue that the Espionage Credit is more useful if we use it to steal proven-successful enemy designs. Don't forget, there's still the slight chance that we can roll [1,1] on a Research credit, while there's no way an espionage credit won't do what's stated on the tin.

Cannala delenda est. Vote Comintern!

[andrea]

Do we have any reason to believe that espionage actions can't fail? It would be extremely powerful if it was totally failure proof. But I don't believe it is.

[Azzuro]

Do we have any reason to believe that espionage actions can't fail? It would be extremely powerful if it was totally failure proof. But I don't believe it is.

Given that they are not stated to be subject to rolls in the OP, I'm inclined to believe they aren't. Expense credits are similarly impossible to fail, for that matter.