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Author Topic: Non-hostile Tower on embark  (Read 1256 times)

Shizmoo

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Non-hostile Tower on embark
« on: April 19, 2017, 01:05:40 am »

I modified the raws so everyone is hostile towards me adding babysnatcher, permit steel, etc... I found a good spot where I will be attacked by every race, but the Tower doesnt have red dashes. Will I still be raided by the tower?
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cyrohound

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Re: Non-hostile Tower on embark
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2017, 08:44:34 pm »

Are you sure your tower is actually occupied? If it is are you sure it's not by someone that just isn't going to care about you? Like a cougar man or something? Just because you make a civ hostile towards you doesn't magically give every civilization (like kobolds, creature men, etc.) the power to siege you. A lot of towers, dark pits, forts, and towns are ruins/abandoned and no one actually lives there. This is especially true if you have a world with a lot of history or a very savage world with a high large creature count. This means more sites get taken over, destroyed by monsters/beasts/other civs, and otherwise have disasters that cause the population to either die or flee.

I once put my fort at a river fork with 3 goblin sites and a tower nearby and never got attacked. So I went into legends mode, and found out all those structures were ruins. The goblins pissed off the dwarves and the humans at about the same time and were stomped in about a 20 year war. So there were like 2 goblin sites left in my large world and they were in the middle of nowhere. Apparently there was a necromancer in the tower once, but some human killed him about 100 years before my dwarves showed up near his site. All this was within normal world parameters. So I basically settled in the ruins of some old civilization with no one around. I didn't even use advanced features, I just had a super savage world with tons of big monsters.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 08:47:13 pm by cyrohound »
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BadCompany141

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Re: Non-hostile Tower on embark
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2017, 10:14:45 pm »

The tower may have not ever encountered your civilization therefor the group inside the tower probably has no idea if you exist or not; until they send out a scout that occasionally will get caught by your dwarves because of their mediocre ambusher skill, in which usually ends up in a undead siege some time later.
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Shizmoo

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Re: Non-hostile Tower on embark
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 12:31:18 am »

Are you sure your tower is actually occupied? If it is are you sure it's not by someone that just isn't going to care about you? Like a cougar man or something? Just because you make a civ hostile towards you doesn't magically give every civilization (like kobolds, creature men, etc.) the power to siege you. A lot of towers, dark pits, forts, and towns are ruins/abandoned and no one actually lives there. This is especially true if you have a world with a lot of history or a very savage world with a high large creature count. This means more sites get taken over, destroyed by monsters/beasts/other civs, and otherwise have disasters that cause the population to either die or flee.

I once put my fort at a river fork with 3 goblin sites and a tower nearby and never got attacked. So I went into legends mode, and found out all those structures were ruins. The goblins pissed off the dwarves and the humans at about the same time and were stomped in about a 20 year war. So there were like 2 goblin sites left in my large world and they were in the middle of nowhere. Apparently there was a necromancer in the tower once, but some human killed him about 100 years before my dwarves showed up near his site. All this was within normal world parameters. So I basically settled in the ruins of some old civilization with no one around. I didn't even use advanced features, I just had a super savage world with tons of big monsters.

You may be true. Last embark, right after first dwarf caravan and 40 dwarves, I got raided by 2 necros and 20ish zombies mixed in steel that just steamrolled my ass. This embark, the only thing I have gotten is a goblin thief after 3 dwarf caravans and thats it. I assume legends mode is the only way? I wish there was some kind of indicator instead of tedious research. Dont know how many more embarks I got in me before I keep starting over after 10+ hours of gameplay re-setting everything up because of something heh.

edit - Checked legends
◾9 Dwarves
◾4 Humans
Other Populations
◾37 Animated Elves
◾13 Animated Dwarves

« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 01:10:22 am by Shizmoo »
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cyrohound

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Re: Non-hostile Tower on embark
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2017, 08:20:52 am »

edit - Checked legends
◾9 Dwarves
◾4 Humans
Other Populations
◾37 Animated Elves
◾13 Animated Dwarves

Does the game even consider that enough of an enemy population to send sieges? I've never thought about what the minimum enemy population must be to send a siege, I just know your fortress population must be 80 by default to trigger a siege or titan attack. I'm pretty sure it's not on the wiki anywhere. But since Toady himself made sieges make more sense than before, I think there must be one. Actual members from the enemy civ have to be drafted into the military and march across the map now, which implies that they must exist in the first place. I'm not sure a tiny town of necromancers would siege you. It wouldn't make sense for a tiny population of 60 individuals to send 2/3 of their population to die against your fort and then be murdered by a forgotten beast while their 'military' was gone. But the AI does lots of other stupid stuff, I mean, this is the same AI that players routinely abuse with trap corridors; so maybe I'm overthinking this.
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Shizmoo

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Re: Non-hostile Tower on embark
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2017, 12:37:15 pm »

edit - Checked legends
◾9 Dwarves
◾4 Humans
Other Populations
◾37 Animated Elves
◾13 Animated Dwarves

Does the game even consider that enough of an enemy population to send sieges? I've never thought about what the minimum enemy population must be to send a siege, I just know your fortress population must be 80 by default to trigger a siege or titan attack. I'm pretty sure it's not on the wiki anywhere. But since Toady himself made sieges make more sense than before, I think there must be one. Actual members from the enemy civ have to be drafted into the military and march across the map now, which implies that they must exist in the first place. I'm not sure a tiny town of necromancers would siege you. It wouldn't make sense for a tiny population of 60 individuals to send 2/3 of their population to die against your fort and then be murdered by a forgotten beast while their 'military' was gone. But the AI does lots of other stupid stuff, I mean, this is the same AI that players routinely abuse with trap corridors; so maybe I'm overthinking this.

I checked the legends of the first embark that had the necro siege in the first year and this is their pop:
Civilized Populations
◾12 Humans
Animal People
◾1 Olm Men
Other Populations
◾23 Animated Humans
◾4 Animated Elves
◾2 Animated Goblins

They had less with a human site government and their siege was actually a declaration of war according to legends still ongoing. Im not sure if all necro attacks become a war or not. I was 5ish tiles from the tower on embark and current embark im 10ish away from a tower. The current embark tower shows a dwarf site government for the tower which is why im assuming the Tower embark didnt have red dashes. It shows them attacking human and elf sites that are farther than mine as well. I just want to know if the game will let them attack me or not which looks like a same race site government wont let it.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 01:00:25 pm by Shizmoo »
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