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Author Topic: Middle-earth: Shadow of War  (Read 75280 times)

Aklyon

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #570 on: October 05, 2017, 12:24:42 pm »

This review that I found via that TB tweet chain seemed to have little issue ignoring the lootboxes.
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Crystalline (SG)
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Man of Paper

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #571 on: October 05, 2017, 12:26:38 pm »

mfw people act like grinding in games hasn't been a staple for RPGs for a decade

Honestly seems like more of the same with a few additions, so I'll definitely be getting it.
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umiman

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #572 on: October 05, 2017, 01:03:44 pm »

I know I was the one who linked it, but I wouldn't be surprised if Polygon was talking shit. Those guys have proven time and time again they don't know how to play games.

Case in point: their DOOM gameplay video.

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At the same time, I know that WB have repeatedly been caught paying for reviews and instituting ultimatums to the paid people to only focus on good things.

Incoming: "hurr, u so dumb everyone pay 4 review hurr"

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Either way I still think this game can burn in hell.

nenjin

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #573 on: October 05, 2017, 02:05:15 pm »

This review that I found via that TB tweet chain seemed to have little issue ignoring the lootboxes.

Yeah, he straight up says he spent dozens of hours hunting down legendary orcs to staff his fortresses with. So if you weren't planning on using loot crates, nothing has changed here.
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Aklyon

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #574 on: October 05, 2017, 02:49:57 pm »

This review that I found via that TB tweet chain seemed to have little issue ignoring the lootboxes.

Yeah, he straight up says he spent dozens of hours hunting down legendary orcs to staff his fortresses with. So if you weren't planning on using loot crates, nothing has changed here.
True, but I'd been mostly seeing if they also had such a grind to a halt at the end, and saw no note of it other than just 'You can ignore these boxes'.
Staffing forts sounds more like an mp-focused thing.
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Crystalline (SG)
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It's known as the Oppai-Kaiju effect. The islands of Japan generate a sort anti-gravity field, which allows breasts to behave as if in microgravity. It's also what allows Godzilla and friends to become 50 stories tall, and lets ninjas run up the side of a skyscraper.

nenjin

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #575 on: October 05, 2017, 03:00:14 pm »

Apparently the grind has to do with seeing the full ending cutscene...or something? Not quite clear on it. I think I'm ok with that, TBH. The ending is sounding like garbo anyways.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Aklyon

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #576 on: October 05, 2017, 03:02:49 pm »

I don't really remember the ending to the first one, I'm assuming it'll be the same with SoW. I'll do it at somepoint and then probably go back to dominating all the dudes like I did in SoM.
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Crystalline (SG)
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It's known as the Oppai-Kaiju effect. The islands of Japan generate a sort anti-gravity field, which allows breasts to behave as if in microgravity. It's also what allows Godzilla and friends to become 50 stories tall, and lets ninjas run up the side of a skyscraper.

Fewah

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #577 on: October 05, 2017, 03:12:05 pm »

I've always viewed Shadow of Mordor/War as a more self-roleplay type game.
Setting challenges on your own, expanding the story through yourself and enjoying the environment and actions happening around you,


I know a lot of people don't like setting personal limitations or restraints in video-games though.. But I'm use to a lot of strategy, RPGs and simulation games so I enjoy that.
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nenjin

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #578 on: October 05, 2017, 03:23:00 pm »

I don't really remember the ending to the first one, I'm assuming it'll be the same with SoW. I'll do it at somepoint and then probably go back to dominating all the dudes like I did in SoM.

Something something get on a boat, something something fighting in front of a fortress, something something 5 Orc Captains in red, something something fight The Hand, something something Sauron QTE.

SoM was never about the story for me but when I went back specifically to finish the game just so I could say it was done, I was pretty underwhelmed.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 03:25:16 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

ThtblovesDF

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #579 on: October 05, 2017, 04:49:36 pm »

In SoM you had less options after finishing the game then before, less events, less going on...
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Damiac

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #580 on: October 05, 2017, 05:29:23 pm »

Whether or not the ending you 'earn' through grinding is actually any good doesn't matter, it's that it's behind a grind.  A grind can be fun, at least for some people, but it becomes really suspicious when the game provides a way to skip that grind by paying. That is just basic free to play game logic.  Even if they totally don't intend in any way to push players toward buying those crates, the very fact that they exist means every subsequent patch and balance change have to consider not just the enjoyability of the game, but whether they're going to impact the money they're bringing in.  And what if they notice making it just a little tougher makes just a little more money?

And I don't actually believe they are acting in completely good faith.  I dislike this enough to take it into my consideration of purchasing the game, as there is some value to me in not giving them any money as my tiny, imperceptible way of saying "I can't support this".  That's not to say I won't get it, but the argument seems valid that this is a turning point in full priced games using free to play money making tactics.  Specifically the concept of 'fun pain', which is the idea that the game is always making things just a little unpleasant for you to get you to spend money to relieve that irritation.  I don't want that in my games, and if it makes more money, people are going to keep doing it in the future.
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nenjin

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #581 on: October 05, 2017, 05:50:03 pm »

I've seen the tactic called 'Pain Removal' a few places over the last couple of years. It's nothing new to the F2P economy, depending on a given developer or publisher's ethos. Warframe, for example, has been doing Pain Removal since Day 1. The community has never really minded because WF is a game about grinding and acquiring more stuff than you'll ever possibly use. Compared to Path of Exile, where how powerful you are has a direct impact on how fast you can clear content, and is all about bragging rights and having the best build and so forth. So Pain Removal is patently unacceptable to GGG and Path of Exile players.....mostly.

What I've read about SoW so far is that to see the true end of the game, you have to defend a lot of fortresses. And each fortress can have up to 6 to 7 captains + overlord. So that's like.....40+ Legendary Orcs you would want to grind for so your fortresses are the best and most unassailable forts you can have, and make the final series of attacks easier to beat.

So accepting that these practices aren't going away and are part of the norm, the question to me is what can you live with. I can take a lot of "pain" in game before I'll decide to spend money. (I think I've spent maybe $100 in Warframe over like 4 years, just because Potatoes take a lot of grinding to get the stockpile you want but don't necessarily need.) Pain and pain removal aren't issues to me that much as long as you can still win via skill and the pain is pleasurable enough that it doesn't make me put the game down. People saying you "need" Legendary Orcs in all your forts and it's a grind to do and that's a deliberate attempt to push people into MTX loot crates probably has to do with the fact Orc levels are very broad in SoW vs. SoM. You'll have low level orcs that aren't up to the end game snuff and they'll need to be replaced with tougher, higher level orcs farmed from the current content, because the stuff thrown at you in the end game will be very high level and your low level schmuks you haven't worked on in a while will be very outclassed.

That feels like a self-inflicted grind yeah but I don't think it comes strictly from a scheme to get more MTX sales. I think it's more or less a natural consequence of making SoW more RPG like and the fact that Monolith doesn't do game endings well at all. Combining those two, you get a redundant end game grind that on the surface appears to be an attempt to increase MTX sales.

Put another way, if the loot crates had never been added, I'm guessing we'd still have the same end game we're hearing about now.

I also think developers often get the shaft because everyone assumes what their motives are. So far reading I've come to a) Monolith still doesn't know how to do end games in a satisfying, original way. They really just recycle all the activities you've been doing the whole time and add some cutscenes and a QTE fight. b) Knowing the weakness in their end game, they did pad it out. Because that's what you do when your game play loop is so loose and open.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Ozyton

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #582 on: October 06, 2017, 12:22:15 pm »

RPS review is out.
The relevant bit:
Quote from: RPS
And yes, there are loot boxes. But put down those pitchforks for now. Truth be told, I’m not really sure what the point of the paid versions is. An in-game currency called mirian drops like rain from quest rewards, random fights, and even from breaking down Talion’s old gear, which you can then use to buy an occasional loot box from the “Market” menu that gives you level-appropriate gear in a pinch. Never once did I feel the need to spend real cash on one of the better boxes, as I usually already had good stuff I’d looted from captain kills and collection rewards. I kept waiting for the need for better gear to overtake the cash flow, but it never did, not even when I discovered I had to pay 1,000 mirian to unlock gem slots for my weapons and gear. Sure, the most expensive loot boxes contain all legendary gear and orcish followers, but strikes me as a case of spending money for the sake of spending it. Maybe it’s worth noting that I didn’t play on the hardest of Shadow of War’s three difficulty settings, but I’m not convinced it matters.

Sartain

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #583 on: October 06, 2017, 01:04:48 pm »

Quote
According to the Gamespot review. Legendary orcs are only available in paid loot boxes. Random lootboxes ingame will only give up to epic

According to Total Biscuit.

Also Polygon is saying the final act is an incredible grind if you don't pay.

I've played for maybe 5 hours total and I just managed to create a Legendary Orc by accident. I'm not even far enough in the game to actually dominate the bugger.
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umiman

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #584 on: October 06, 2017, 01:11:44 pm »

Quote
According to the Gamespot review. Legendary orcs are only available in paid loot boxes. Random lootboxes ingame will only give up to epic

According to Total Biscuit.

Also Polygon is saying the final act is an incredible grind if you don't pay.

I've played for maybe 5 hours total and I just managed to create a Legendary Orc by accident. I'm not even far enough in the game to actually dominate the bugger.
Yeah that's what I thought. I suspected Polygon just doesn't know how to play games.
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