Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Doubloon-Seven]

You know what, those are some pretty good points. I should prolly take a closer look at everyone before voting.
Unvote TheBiggerFish

Aand, this is why I need to study all the posts on a page before using it as a reason. Still, a quote would've helped.

Anyway, to answer your most recent question, yes, if the player was trying their hardest to make the game unfun, and was constantly being
 insulting/trolling the game. Otherwise, no.

[Gentlefish]

It's the weekend leading into deadweek. I'll try to get something up tonight but I'm taking a well-deserved brain rest this weekend.

[webadict]

Wow I missed a lot while I was asleep.

@webadict: ( I think it was you who asked the question)
I would probably cop TBF. No real obvious targets, and he just seems to be asking for it.
@doll:
I would probably not lynch the guy who claims to be cop, assuming he isn't acting too suspicious.

I might have missed a third question, just lemme know if I did.

Yeah, but why TBF? Why is he asking for it?

Well he starts off the bat antagonizing roo. No other reason. Do we have to kill someone first turn? (disarm? whatever.)

Technically, no. There are multiple strategies that can be employed to determine who's scum and who's not. Typically, though, we prefer to lynch players earlier, as this gives town relatively more chances to succeed, since every chance you lynch someone is another chance they may be mafia. This game has relatively little influence from power roles, so lynching early is the way to go, giving you a total of 3 mislynches before the game is over. If you skip a lynch, you lose it forever, but you gain an extra Day to debate... That isn't usually worth it.

Alright, now for the answer. Yes, he's antagonizing roo. He's antagonizing plenty of people. Do you have any other reasons for why you would vote him?

The reason I am voting him is exactly as doll has posited. I believe that, even if TBF is Town, he is a liability to town players. I would STRONGER ENCOURAGE HIM to take this opportunity to learn a thing or two about not doing what he usually does. I have seen him use chances where he is 100% confirmed Town and waste them. It is purely vindictive, perhaps, but I am incredibly sick of having games feel awful because he chose to make them awful.

In fact, if I were mafia, I would kill him first. Even if this meant that this gives me away.

IC SIDENOTE:

Now, you will probably want to avoid saying the previous sentence I've just said for a variety of reasons. This is a very WIFOM-laden statement. In fact, let's explain why this is bad, but why I am also saying it. This is actually a great learning experience in advanced Mafiaing. I won't mark points off for going after me, and I won't call you stupid for questioning anything I say above or in this.

In Mafia, there are many tools you can use to win, for any alignment. Typically, these involve the Day game, as the Night game is incredibly random and highly probabilistic. Your scum and town game will increase the better you read players. And everything you type tells a little more about yourself to all the players. You can tell a lot more as scum, though, since you have reasons for WHY someone is being quieter than usual (Perhaps they have a power role and don't want to be killed?) That information is missing from town. So, how can you go about telling the town something that can't be used against you by the mafia? This is why it is easier for scum to lie about things: They have more information they can unveil that will protect them, that their lies can be based on, since the best lies are those that have truth to them. It is why it isn't suggested you should lie as Town. If you're caught in a lie, you will more than likely be lynched.

Now, WIFOM is something that should be avoided as well. It can be used against you in many circumstances (Say, the mafia kills TBF, which is what I said I would do. I cannot say I didn't mean it, as that could be determined as a lie that I posted then. So, now I have painted myself into a corner.)

So why did you use WIFOM?

My typical playstyle is that of self-confidence. I am extremely confident in anything that I do and my ability to get myself out of any situation. This is because I plan out certain moves, and I use a lot of my experience as a player to feel out how that will turn out. It's not 100% foolproof, and I believe it took a long time to get any good at it. It is NOT for everyone, and I recommend against it. I am okay with it because I know there is two players here who will understand why I use it: 4maskwolf and doll. But, not only that, but it will cause them to counter-engage me. Doll is a little different though, in that every move we make toward each other is like a chess battle in and of itself. I prod him, and he prods me. It goes on forever until one of us has come out the victor, or, more likely, one of us is killed. 4mask, on the other hand, will be more combative towards me, and it is much easier to read him in a direct confrontation. At the same time, it should hopefully engage some of you newer players to realize that I SHOULD NOT be trusted, except in explanations for WHY something happens. I will not lie to you about the game itself, but if I am mafia, I can use what I know to haphazardly justify my actions.

In other words, I am trying to increase activity.

So, tomorrow happens and TBF has been killed. Someone points out that I have said I would've killed him, and oh look, he's dead. I can counter this point by saying that, yes, indeed, I WOULD have killed TBF, and I will go into a tirade about why it is better to remove those players and win by true skill instead of making the game miserable for others. Is this something scum Webadict would do? Possibly. Is this something that town Webadict would do? You're not entirely sure. But, think one step further: Did it advance the cause of the Town that he may have baited out the death of TBF, a player that he has had a reasonable explanation to get rid of?

Sticky situation, indeed. You can't be sure whether it is useful information or not. Overall, it would waste the Town's resources and cause headaches to focus on it, and constantly doing so may drain the will of the town, which is why it is a terrible tool to use.

I'm gonna be honest, I will probably only do these explanation likes maybe once every couple of days. They are exceedingly awful.

@Everyone: Who would you inspect as a Cop and why?

All things equal, I'd inspect you or doll.  Both of you are competent and hard for me to read, and if everyone was equal in my eyes I'd go with one of you.

Now, obviously, not all things are equal in a game of mafia, so I'll give a bit more of an in-depth answer.  I wouldn't inspect TBF, because it's a waste of an inspect to target someone who is likely to be lynched in the future.  Even if I did inspect him and he turned up town, I'd have to out myself to save him and it's not worth the tradeoff.  I'd try and go for someone who's in the middle of the pack: not incredibly townie-looking, but not likely to get their ass lynched either.  That way, my inspection results will hopefully be useful when it really matters come late-game.

That's a good answer, and one that makes the most sense to do.

Which is why I would instead inspect doll. BECAUSE he's the most likely to be killed other than me, he is the best person to inspect, since the most obvious choice is usually the least likely to happen, and anyone that goes for the most obvious choice tends to have less experience, which means that I am less likely to require the investigation if they do kill him.

Alternatively, you answer leaves open the gap where you COULD save someone from being lynched, at the expense of yourself, but then again, is self-preservation more useful in this case? Your goal is to use your information ASAP, but, the longer you withhold, the more investigations you will have, so it's a tricky situation. Perhaps two investigations is all you need. Perhaps you COULD hold out for a third.

Overall, I give your answer a D-. I feel like it was the right answer by virtue only. It lacked the depth needed for it to be one hundred percent correct, and while there was supporting evidence, it felt forced.

webadict

Aye, we've already got one TBF, let's refrain from having two. Perhaps it would be better for you if you provide accompanying evidence. Am I suspicious? Am I a nerd? Am I a some sort of arch-villain, dedicated to the destruction of the world? Your vote really only makes YOU look like a suspicious person, especially since I'm about to drop a wall big enough to crush puppies and orphans for their tears.

Hit me up when you want real answers, or if you believe that will be of any use. Although, it did get a response, so there is that, but it could give you a useful response with something to respond to.

Additionally, since it's been established that I apparently cannot stand staring at computers because of BLARING COMPUTER SCREENS, my eyes are not the best. If I miss your question or answer, I apologize, and you can call me dumb.

[roo]

Player 1: hey player 2 get engaged ask questions.
Player 2: question?
Player 1: uhh dumb question Fuck head
Lol what? I thought this was a beginner game?

I know that acting like a 'passive' aggressive shit and generally putting words in people's mouths in order to instigate conflict is sort of your thing but could you tone it down?
Asking questions which don't advance the game is tolerated insomuch as this is an opportunity to learn ask other questions instead.
Acting like criticism is an unhelpful attack on the character of the other person defeats the whole point of their taking an opportunity to learn.

@Doll why aren't you mad at webadict and 4mask for not adding anything to the game?
If anything tbf is a lazy low effort vote or do you disagree?

They are adding to the game. My interaction with 4mask is the most usable part of the thread to date. Webadict hasn't posted much so there's not much to comment on there, but his posts aren't empty and his RVS question was actually useful.
There's no such thing as a lazy low effort vote in RVS. We're still in RVS.
TheBiggerFish has made it clear that at present he has no intent to contribute to the discussion. This makes it impossible to read him. The chance that he is scum has no bearing on the number of players left, as scum would never kill such a useless townie. That means that the best thing we can do with him is to lynch him early, because otherwise we incur an opportunity cost for leaving him alive. Unless someone appears who is scummy enough to overcome that opportunity cost or TBF pulls himself together and contributes to the game, we are lynching him today. This is bad for town, because it limits our ability to hunt, given that TBF is unlikely to be scum (statistically) and we could easily do better if we were scum hunting, but having TBF here takes a lot of pressure off whoever is being called scum. For this reason, it is especially scummy (and not merely a neutral 'anti-town') to be unhelpful this Day1, since it would be hard to be more unhelpful than TBF.
roo
You seem to be acting like we're well out of RVS, in which case you must have something you can point on to call somebody scum.
Why are you voting Webadict? Is he scum?
You haven't annotated your vote. Is there any particular point on which you would like to apply pressure?
Who do you think is scummy right now?

I was reading doujins. I'm all sticky... ahem.

Generally speaking I agree with you on TBF; however, it does not mean I must now spend the day talking about tbf or try to get him to do something. You have decided to lynch him. Why spend the day phase on him/talking about him or at him? Why not move on to something more productive? Removing the presssure from our choice lynchee makes us less likely to think critically. If the decision has been made what next Doll? If he flips town? (Good riddance I'm assuming, nothing of value was lost?). Who on his wagon might be scum looking for the easy lynch? If he flips scum?

@Doll how do you find scum/scumhunt?

What do you think is the best thing for town to do at the beginning of a game in order to catch scum? How are you doing it?

If rvs is "random voting" is not beneficial to move us out of this? Or must we all come To a decision of mutual understanding and announce yes now rvs has ended go catch scum everyone? Like I said before rvs is as much a state of mind as a phase of the game. I've come to play that's all.

Who is scum Dollface? What reads do you have so far? Or is there not enough info? We're at page 6 with a few days to go. What's keeping you?

I'll be honest I don't see how 4mask and webadict have added to the game. In short I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Maybe you're my better hell idk. They both made a sort of ic post and have answered and posed "random questions" wouldn't that just be called standard? Is that really moving the game forward? What is proactive about their play? And why isn't it just you being respectful towards their play? Or are they a cut above the rest with the type of questions posed and their manner in answering it? In the end isn't random still random? Well that's how I feel about it anyway.

Webadicts question of who would you cop has almost no value methinks since their is one possible option of jailkeeper. If I said I would cop webadict because he's a penguin what have we gained? Or if I said I would cop someone lurking because scum usually hide their, again what was gained? If I was scum I have no reason to lie when answering these types of questions or get emotional, slip up, or reveal their mindset.

And your interaction with 4mask are you talking about him claiming vanilla? I can see his post coming from either alignment. But if you're telling me it's usable teach me dude how can you use it? What did you learn from it? Are you leaning some sort of way toward 4 mask? How have you used it in a proactive sense? I mean I don't see any evaluation of his post for a site that really values "evidence" where is yours? I take you at your word because 1. why lie as either alignment when saying a post can be used 2. Why bother saying it in the first place. I would be interested less in the evaluation and more in the application.

And finally I voted webadict because of his lazy vote on TBF and lousy explanation for said vote. It amounted to cuz he isn't playing how I think people should play this game. That ignores all other options. I see it as a lazy scum mindset going for an easy lynch and not a townie one. More important I naked voted him just to see what webadict would say about it. I wasn't surprised with the active hostility and attempt to ridicule with the underlying threat sprinkled in. It made me more sure of my position on webadict and his scum mindset: stay away from me or you're next like TBF.

Other options:

1. Ignore tbf and say I'll lynch him at the end of the day meanwhile I'll be awesome and try and find scum or make a townbloc and ride into the night fighting for freedom or get a feel for the players.

2. Vote tbf and say my vote is staying on but I'm gonna look at other avenues.

3. Warn tbf that if he did not stop his shenanigans  he would vote him for death.

Followed up by his post on johiah why tbf. It left a bad taste in my mouth. Is webadict unable to read the state of the game or atmosphere and the overall reception of TBF? Idk I think it's susp.

Why does webadict not ask johiah how does TBF asking for it make him scum? Or is hindsight just 20/20? Or am I giving to much credit to townwebadict vs scumwebadict? I'm just going by feel right now so meh. Essentially:

Webadict wants to keep the conversation of TBF going and does not get to the core of the issue.

Maybe I am just completely against the TBF lynch. My gut might be trying to tell
me something. I'll stand by what I said and see what happens.

I also dislike your pass at how we are still in rvs so any vote is excusable we're also almost at the deadline with people posting once a day. If you respect Webadicts play I ask that you also respect his vote and recognize that currently as it stands it is a poor one. If RVS is really random why bother asking people to explain their votes? Certainly there must be something meaningful in a votes otherwise bother asking how come. You're also assuming that somehow people don't have alignments in rvs which is quite patently false.

Also my last paragraph I had no clue how to phrase certain things so if you understand it great! If not less great but as long as you get the gist it's fine.

@Doll currently I am pursuing hapah and webadict as possible scum.

[Hapah]

Such a busy weekend! I'll catch up tomorrow after work.

[TheBiggerFish]

...Hapah, you seem to be activelurking just a bit.

[doll]

Generally speaking I agree with you on TBF; however, it does not mean I must now spend the day talking about tbf or try to get him to do something. You have decided to lynch him. Why spend the day phase on him/talking about him or at him? Why not move on to something more productive? Removing the presssure from our choice lynchee makes us less likely to think critically. If the decision has been made what next Doll? If he flips town? (Good riddance I'm assuming, nothing of value was lost?). Who on his wagon might be scum looking for the easy lynch? If he flips scum?

I voted myself earlier because I don't want to lynch TBF.
I expect to, and I intend to if he doesn't improve his game. But I don't want to, because I'd prefer he improved his game.
He's not scummy, however.

@Doll how do you find scum/scumhunt?

What do you think is the best thing for town to do at the beginning of a game in order to catch scum? How are you doing it?

I look for people who let slip that they are scum, taste inauthentic, or play against the interests of the town.
In particular, I'm looking for subtext that the other player knows something that I don't. If the other player knows something that I don't and doesn't want to share it, it's often because he's scum (sometimes it's because he's the cop, but that's why the cop has a big responsibility to balance looking towny and having a believable claim and useful role in steering the town).

The best thing for town to do at the beginning of a game is to generate a very large amount of activity. The players I am the most interested in hearing from are players who haven't answered my RVS questions yet, so I'm mostly just fielding questions and writing walls of text at this point.

If rvs is "random voting" is not beneficial to move us out of this? Or must we all come To a decision of mutual understanding and announce yes now rvs has ended go catch scum everyone? Like I said before rvs is as much a state of mind as a phase of the game. I've come to play that's all.

Allow me to clarify: I am still in RVS because I'm still waiting for the initial response to several RVS questions I am actually interested in the replies to.

Who is scum Dollface? What reads do you have so far? Or is there not enough info? We're at page 6 with a few days to go. What's keeping you?

I've actually got an extremely strong read on a certain player, but I wanted to see how it would go without giving away my position.
Continued below.

I'll be honest I don't see how 4mask and webadict have added to the game. In short I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Maybe you're my better hell idk. They both made a sort of ic post and have answered and posed "random questions" wouldn't that just be called standard? Is that really moving the game forward? What is proactive about their play? And why isn't it just you being respectful towards their play? Or are they a cut above the rest with the type of questions posed and their manner in answering it? In the end isn't random still random? Well that's how I feel about it anyway.

Webadict and 4maskwolf are giving a lot away. You could say that they are a 'cut above the rest', though it depends on where they go from here whether or not they've actually done well for themselves. I have, however, been able to make some inferences about their play.
In particular, I wanted to wait on 4mask because I've got something good to follow up on and I've been waiting for him to post.
I would never consider a random lynch on these IC's because it's much easier (for me) to play with them here. In a way, this reduces the pressure on them, but actually it rather puts them in the spotlight. I can get a lot out of their responses in RVS because these responses have been earnest and thoughtful, if not necessarily 'correct'.

Webadicts question of who would you cop has almost no value methinks since their is one possible option of jailkeeper. If I said I would cop webadict because he's a penguin what have we gained? Or if I said I would cop someone lurking because scum usually hide their, again what was gained? If I was scum I have no reason to lie when answering these types of questions or get emotional, slip up, or reveal their mindset.

What we would have gained is an insight into how you are thinking when you approach the game.
You can see in my response that though there is the usual afterthought of finding scum amongst potentially dangerous opponents, the main point is that I'm looking for town that I can manipulate even when I am the cop. This lets you know that I'm trying to control the lynch. I would have told you that myself, if you asked, and in effect webadict did. What conclusions you wish to draw on my trying to control the lynch are your own.
I can get away with being vague just now, as Webadict says, because there are two other players who are likely to believe my explanations and rally around me when I get called out, so I've no pressing need to surrender my anonymity. Players who have played with me in the past may see parallels to my past play, and attempt to draw meta-inferences on those. Maybe it's a bluff along those lines. The point is that when you describe your motivations and position on certain issues, you give other players an opportunity to see how you are thinking and what might be influencing your state of mind. In particular, there has been a lot of rolefishing this RVS. This is to be expected, and certain players are offering up more than you might hope, but there's a lot of information floating around already. Floating around a few, active players.
(As it stands, you are one of them, so bravo; you're my towniest pick so far)

And your interaction with 4mask are you talking about him claiming vanilla? I can see his post coming from either alignment. But if you're telling me it's usable teach me dude how can you use it? What did you learn from it? Are you leaning some sort of way toward 4 mask? How have you used it in a proactive sense? I mean I don't see any evaluation of his post for a site that really values "evidence" where is yours? I take you at your word because 1. why lie as either alignment when saying a post can be used 2. Why bother saying it in the first place. I would be interested less in the evaluation and more in the application.

I followed up there with a set of questions. Further action in that sphere is pending his response to those questions.

To clarify, if you really are lost and don't see what I'm chasing after in his post; at the most fundamental level, any honest and believable claim to being a vanilla townie reduces your chances of being nightkilled and, in theory, increases the exposure of town's power-roles (for whom the scum are fishing) to the scumkill and rolecheck. 4mask knows this, and so do I; therefore, his responding to me in this fashion is curious. It isn't suspicious in and of itself because he's made this claim with his eyes open. It is, however, a matter worth pursuing, because it should give me a chance to get a lot of content out of 4maskwolf relating to how he wishes to present himself re: his role.

As an aside: as scum, or any other role, you can't really control how your role influences how you think. Answering the questions, especially for players with an earnest or undeveloped style (note: not the same thing) can give a lot away. Answering the questions, for players with sophisticated and manipulative methods, can also do a lot of work in setting yourself up in the minds of the rest of the town.

And finally I voted webadict because of his lazy vote on TBF and lousy explanation for said vote. It amounted to cuz he isn't playing how I think people should play this game. That ignores all other options. I see it as a lazy scum mindset going for an easy lynch and not a townie one. More important I naked voted him just to see what webadict would say about it. I wasn't surprised with the active hostility and attempt to ridicule with the underlying threat sprinkled in. It made me more sure of my position on webadict and his scum mindset: stay away from me or you're next like TBF.

Other options:

1. Ignore tbf and say I'll lynch him at the end of the day meanwhile I'll be awesome and try and find scum or make a townbloc and ride into the night fighting for freedom or get a feel for the players.

2. Vote tbf and say my vote is staying on but I'm gonna look at other avenues.

3. Warn tbf that if he did not stop his shenanigans  he would vote him for death.

Followed up by his post on johiah why tbf. It left a bad taste in my mouth. Is webadict unable to read the state of the game or atmosphere and the overall reception of TBF? Idk I think it's susp.

Why does webadict not ask johiah how does TBF asking for it make him scum? Or is hindsight just 20/20? Or am I giving to much credit to townwebadict vs scumwebadict? I'm just going by feel right now so meh. Essentially:

Webadict wants to keep the conversation of TBF going and does not get to the core of the issue.

A lot of players don't post much on weekends. Webadict is one of them. So, apparently, are 4maskwolf, Hapah, and Gentlefish. I expect more content to be forthcoming. If there isn't, that is suspicious. However, as I've been saying when I've been saying we (or I) am still in RVS: a lot of the fundamentals haven't been built yet.

Maybe I am just completely against the TBF lynch. My gut might be trying to tell
me something. I'll stand by what I said and see what happens.

I also dislike your pass at how we are still in rvs so any vote is excusable we're also almost at the deadline with people posting once a day. If you respect Webadicts play I ask that you also respect his vote and recognize that currently as it stands it is a poor one. If RVS is really random why bother asking people to explain their votes? Certainly there must be something meaningful in a votes otherwise bother asking how come. You're also assuming that somehow people don't have alignments in rvs which is quite patently false.

Also my last paragraph I had no clue how to phrase certain things so if you understand it great! If not less great but as long as you get the gist it's fine.

I agree, TBF is probably not scum.
However, voting another town player instead would be worse for us.
If reasonable grounds appear to suspect another player, it would be odd not to see the votes move to that.
If such does not happen, either it is likely even that TBF might be scum, or the town simply wasn't active enough.

Despite everything, we actually have a lot of time this D1.
Can can also extend if the players we're waiting on aren't forthcoming with their posts.
Let's try not to have to do that, however.

@Doll currently I am pursuing hapah and webadict as possible scum.

While there is something I would like to say about webadict that I'll get to in another post, I don't particularly share your suspicion of him.

Hapah is an interesting case because he's not done himself any favors. He went after a trivial case knowing that it was weak and reflected poorly on himself, and he's reminded us that he's here but he's not even faked activity.
It's often said that the promise of activity, if undelivered, is among the strongest scumtells available. I would be inclined to agree that it is amongst the worst things you can do to the town in the daygame.
Hapah, therefore, has about ~24 hours before people start voting him for not posting anything.

4maskwolf has given a strong position, but he hasn't yet given me enough to determine a direction for that strength. I'm waiting on questions to continue to follow him.

Gentlefish is suspicious. I'm not making a big case out of him because he has yet to respond, and the longer that goes on the harder it'll be for him to reverse any bandwagon I set moving in his path.
Note here that I've stated my intent in positioning the town. I am, as it were, being honestly less than honest, even though I am voting for the target of my suspicion. But I don't seem to want you to vote him yet, because I want him to make it easier for me to get you to vote him. Since he has an out for this (doing what I want and going for something, answering my questions), it also makes it easier for him to avoid the lynch if I can get him to do what I want, which is to give me an opportunity to read him (and so decide if I want to push for the lynch after that or not).

[doll]

Webadict
You seem to be painting the nightgame as random and unpredictable, yet you do a lot in your post to move the scumkill away from yourself.
Why didn't you comment on this? Are you not thinking about it (avoiding the scumkill) because you're scum? Are you just so used to doing it that you didn't notice? Did you omit that comment on purpose so as not to weaken your dodge?
As an aside, I don't really put much value on 'evidence'. What matters is your ability to move the town. Having a 'because', or better yet many points of 'because', will help with this, but it is far from necessary to win.
It should be understood that town can effectively win like scum, simply by having multiple players appear so towny that they are lynched last by process of elimination. For this reason, scum like to kill strong players (like Webadict) first. To counter this, players like Webadict like to make their position look worse, and will often attempt to flirt with the lynch to avoid the kill. This has the added benefit that almost getting lynched makes it much harder to lynch you in the future, because of a kind of cognitive inertia decisions get after they are made.

[webadict]

Webadict
You seem to be painting the nightgame as random and unpredictable, yet you do a lot in your post to move the scumkill away from yourself.
Why didn't you comment on this? Are you not thinking about it (avoiding the scumkill) because you're scum? Are you just so used to doing it that you didn't notice? Did you omit that comment on purpose so as not to weaken your dodge?
As an aside, I don't really put much value on 'evidence'. What matters is your ability to move the town. Having a 'because', or better yet many points of 'because', will help with this, but it is far from necessary to win.
It should be understood that town can effectively win like scum, simply by having multiple players appear so towny that they are lynched last by process of elimination. For this reason, scum like to kill strong players (like Webadict) first. To counter this, players like Webadict like to make their position look worse, and will often attempt to flirt with the lynch to avoid the kill. This has the added benefit that almost getting lynched makes it much harder to lynch you in the future, because of a kind of cognitive inertia decisions get after they are made.

Multiple reasons. The first is that I was trying to get a long post out, and I get really lazy making sure I say what I wanted to say. The second is that I actually prefer NOT to die in BMs because I become less invested in them, which sucks because I'm an IC, which seems counter to part 1, but is meant more as a reinforcer. The third is that I never thought of that last one, but I can't find a hole in it, since it creates some sort of lynch fatigue.

But perhaps that's not true at all. Regardless, I have decided to put slightly higher priority on teaching than winning this game nit because it's not worth winning, but because I can only focus so much before my brain liquifies.

Which leads me to roo, who I will refuse to call names because I'm not mean, and simply suggest adding quotes or links to specific posts that you believe justify your suspicion. It's better to get a bad case with evidence than a good case with none. It also seems to be easier on players to mentally separate those out.

That said, your case implies that I have the power to stop TBF from being himself, which is odd, because I do have that power, but it seems to manifest itself into bold red text, so here's where the deal starts and ends: I think TBF is a scum player by merit. Just as an additional player. He literally brings game down a player on start. And until he decides to play nicely with the other children, maybe I'll start giving him the respect of not instavoting him. But I am gonna maintain with a 99% likelihood that that simply won't happen until he gets thrown out of towns left and right, like some sort of ostracized leper. Consider it IC of the highest calibur, where I am trying to multifacet teach at the same time I'm trying to kill a mother grizzly, threatening to maul me for having been added to the same mafia game her cub is in. Sorry, I'm getting off topic and back into bad habits. Overall, this is RVS where I shot R in the end and moved the gun to Org, I mean TBF's head. He has a choice to make, and you can move your gun to my head, but I refuse to move mine until he decides this isn't Candyland.

[webadict]

Also, I'm only letting my anger through filtered so that doll will think I'm town and get off my back, because I don't feel like I can chess battle him and every newbie that will go after me for not being Web the Almighty. Sorry dolly, I just ain't up for it today.

But I'm also posting this so you'll also think that and ultimately leave you to try to WIFOM your way out of that. You'll probably figure out what it means, since you usually do. Or maybe I know that and lied on purpose.

Oh and to anyone else, you can safely ignore this message as it doesn't mean anything to you. Peace.

[TheBiggerFish]

doll and webadict: Why exactly do you people think I'm "not playing nicely with the other children"?  What the heck is it that you think I've done, or do, that makes my play worse than anyone else's?

[webadict]

doll and webadict: Why exactly do you people think I'm "not playing nicely with the other children"?  What the heck is it that you think I've done, or do, that makes my play worse than anyone else's?

The fact that you cannot see the faults in your own play is one of the many faults in your play. Think about it like this: You are Chaotic Neutral. You have relatively little moral system, don't fully understand the rules enough to exploit them, fail to learn from your experiences, and when given the chance to make something of yourself, you buckle. I have tried. You aren't learning though. Are you trying? Because here's the thing, if you're trying, then I don't get it, what is your overall goal? When you get the the lategame, everyone thinks you're scum anyway. You have to try to be recognized. Because I have played many games with doll and 4mask and I will never lynch them on personality, because they are good players. But you? You I just don't get. You DON'T improve Town's chances of winning by doing what you do.

[roo]

Webadict
You seem to be painting the nightgame as random and unpredictable, yet you do a lot in your post to move the scumkill away from yourself.
Why didn't you comment on this? Are you not thinking about it (avoiding the scumkill) because you're scum? Are you just so used to doing it that you didn't notice? Did you omit that comment on purpose so as not to weaken your dodge?
As an aside, I don't really put much value on 'evidence'. What matters is your ability to move the town. Having a 'because', or better yet many points of 'because', will help with this, but it is far from necessary to win.
It should be understood that town can effectively win like scum, simply by having multiple players appear so towny that they are lynched last by process of elimination. For this reason, scum like to kill strong players (like Webadict) first. To counter this, players like Webadict like to make their position look worse, and will often attempt to flirt with the lynch to avoid the kill. This has the added benefit that almost getting lynched makes it much harder to lynch you in the future, because of a kind of cognitive inertia decisions get after they are made.

That said, your case implies that I have the power to stop TBF from being himself, which is odd, because I do have that power, but it seems to manifest itself into bold red text, so here's where the deal starts and ends: I think TBF is a scum player by merit. Just as an additional player. He literally brings game down a player on start. And until he decides to play nicely with the other children, maybe I'll start giving him the respect of not instavoting him. But I am gonna maintain with a 99% likelihood that that simply won't happen until he gets thrown out of towns left and right, like some sort of ostracized leper. Consider it IC of the highest calibur, where I am trying to multifacet teach at the same time I'm trying to kill a mother grizzly, threatening to maul me for having been added to the same mafia game her cub is in. Sorry, I'm getting off topic and back into bad habits. Overall, this is RVS where I shot R in the end and moved the gun to Org, I mean TBF's head. He has a choice to make, and you can move your gun to my head, but I refuse to move mine until he decides this isn't Candyland.

Thank you for your suggestions. I did not see the need to link your only two posts that I was referring to. 103 106 And I am fairly certain I represented both of them fairly and the content therein while analyzing them. I didn't misrepresent you at least not to my knowledge. And you did not say I misrepresented you. Instead you have sidestepped it and given me an suggestion of "how to" while ignoring the content and have doubled down on TBF being the only lynch option.


My case (if it can even be called that) does nothing of the sort (you are super awesome penguin with magical mind controlling powers) webadict. It states you went for the nuclear option at a stage of the game that is considered low information. Are you in rvs? The information gathering stage? Doll seems to think so (I'm assuming) and you say as much. but your vote on tbf for death implies otherwise. It says I have enough information and Decent read on a couple players. Which begs the question why do you want to remain in rvs webadict?

You still only want to talk about tbf. Thats on you m80. Why not ignore him? Or is it cuz you're all about the teaching?

Do you think my vote on you is fair at this stage of the game webadict?

What is your read on on johaiah and doubloon seven?

[4maskwolf]

Soz, had a busy couple days and disappeared for what I think is now over 48 hours.  Well, I is the back now.

4maskwolf
If you can't claim without the risk of being taken at face value by new players, why claim at all?
Do you think your fakeclaim is going to make it harder on you to claim latter in the game?
Do you think experienced players surviving into the lategame will make them more suspicious?

For your first question, I fail to understand the specific context you're going for here.  Are you asking why I claimed vanilla town?  As of right now, there are very few people with a vested interest in being seen as anything other than vanilla town.  Genuine town power roles aren't going to want to draw the nightkill to themselves by seeming like a power role, scum don't want to get outed by being counterclaimed, and while a regular townie might want to draw heat off of a power role but for reasons I pointed out in my previous post wouldn't want to claim it directly.  Thus, claiming vanilla town is a neutral claim that is utterly meaningless to what my actual role is at this stage in the game.  For this same reason, me claiming vanilla town now should not be an issue should I claim a power role later on: if it is, I'll just point people to this discussion.  As for your last question... yes and no.  This question is very prone to WIFOM because whatever the answer is the scum can always manipulate things to seem worse than they are (for example, leaving an experienced town who just got some bad reads alive to LYLO in hopes of getting them lynched).  In general, in a BM, I'd say "yes, it makes them a little more suspicious", but like everything else whether or not it makes an individual player suspicious needs to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis.

And yes, before anyone brings it up, there is always the strategy of hinting that you're a power role when you're not to try scum aggro away from the actual PRs.  I didn't mention this for a couple of reasons, the primary one being that it wasn't directly related to the question at hand, and the other being that this is a BM and this strategy is less likely to show up when you have players who are learning the B12 meta for the first time.

That's a good answer, and one that makes the most sense to do.

Which is why I would instead inspect doll. BECAUSE he's the most likely to be killed other than me, he is the best person to inspect, since the most obvious choice is usually the least likely to happen, and anyone that goes for the most obvious choice tends to have less experience, which means that I am less likely to require the investigation if they do kill him.

Alternatively, you answer leaves open the gap where you COULD save someone from being lynched, at the expense of yourself, but then again, is self-preservation more useful in this case? Your goal is to use your information ASAP, but, the longer you withhold, the more investigations you will have, so it's a tricky situation. Perhaps two investigations is all you need. Perhaps you COULD hold out for a third.

Overall, I give your answer a D-. I feel like it was the right answer by virtue only. It lacked the depth needed for it to be one hundred percent correct, and while there was supporting evidence, it felt forced.

Yup, you're right, my answer was lacking in depth and had minimal supporting evidence.  That's how I tend to post, for a variety of out-of-game reasons, but let's just discuss the one that was relevant to this particular post.  That post was written up just before I headed off to work for a night shift, and as I was rushed for time I by necessity cut out a lot of fluff from my answer and gave a terse version.  I also was less invested in providing a blow-by-blow analysis because it was an RVS question, albeit an interesting one that didn't make me want to eat a pistol for being asked it.  My general policy for RVS questions is to provide a little more information than is strictly necessary but not enough that I have to devote significant mental resources to mapping out all the possibilities.  Sorry to disappoint, Wubsy.

@TheBiggerFish: I recall you asking me what the difference is between you antagonizing roo for previous games and me antagonizing you for FBYOR2?  The answer is that I wasn't attempting to antagonize you at all.  I was explaining why I would have a very low bullshit tolerance with you (heavily influenced by that one game) and didn't plan on bringing up that game ever again in that context, I try to let bygones be bygones.  You, on the other hand, greeted roo's entrance into the game with petty sniping and general defamation because of previous games where, yes, he played in an incredibly aggravating manner.  There is literally no purpose to what you were saying beyond direct aggression against roo over previous actions.

[webadict]

It was a suggestion to give your argument more weight. Quoting portions of a post helps focus the attention to where it matters.

I don't believe to be the only lynch option. I believe him to be the BEST lynch option. Like, the only better option is scum.

Of course I'm gonna double down on TBF. I have played several games with him. I don't even believe he's scum. He probably isn't. But the problem is that even as town, he actively hurts the chances to win, which means that I want him to shape up or ship out.

It's not about ignoring you. It's just that you're wrong. You don't truly understand my dislike of TBF until you've seen him ruin a game he had the ability to save.

I think your vote is dumb, but I also know I'm Town, and I understand exactly why i do things. I can post multiple games ruined by TBF. I want him to learn or die.

I don't really care about johaiah or doubloon. They haven't done anything worth noticing.

@4mask: touchy... geez. Do you want like 5 minutes to cry about it privately before you post instead?