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[Andres]

Thought about it, but crystal does have that heat fracturing problem we discovered earlier. And while it was just minor fractures before, steam engines do tend to get quite hot and it feels like it'd build up over time.

What heat fracturing problem? Was said problem not fixed when we did the crystalworks? If said heat problem does exist, we should endeavour to fix it, because such a material would be massively useful if we could fix that problem. The steam engine would only be the beginning.

Glory to Arstotzka.

[Chiefwaffles]

Heat fracturing problem as in the one we discovered with Crystal Circuits. While the Crystalworks didn't explicitly mention it, I'd doubt it would be fixed by that. It's just a fundamental property of Crystal. We could probably fix it with a revision for that one purpose, but I don't really think it's worth it. And doing it as part of the Crystalclad with everything else and lighter steam engines is definitely too much for one design.

Everywhere but magitech like the steam engine and circuits, it's not a problem and Crystal is still fireproof. What I'm worried about is years of operations with the steam engine turning off and on and gradually damaging the crystal. Crystal could definitely take more than enough firebombs to last its design's lifetime, as firebombs aren't as consistent or frequent as the steam engine changing temperature. Each time the temperature changes, the crystal gets mildly more stressed. When consistently done every day for years, at some point there's going to be a noticeable crack and who knows when it might appear.

[RAM]

Are crystals cheaper than metal? They both have a cost reduction right now...

[evictedSaint]

They're about the same.  Crystals are sharper and lighter and harder than steel, but steel is less brittle.

[Andres]

They're about the same.  Crystals are sharper and lighter and harder than steel, but steel is less brittle.

You did say that, but later you said that machine crystal was as brittle as steel due to the fact that original hand-made crystal was better than steel to begin with.

Another question about crystal: in terms of heat, is it bad when it comes to steam engines or is it only bad when doing something as precise as circuitry?

@Chiefwaffles, remember that ship maintenance is a thing. That applies to engines as well. So long as it can be relied upon to not break down mid-battle, it's fine.

[Chiefwaffles]

Good point. I've made them crystal engines.

[evictedSaint]

Ah, sorry - it's tough keeping all the details from two nations over the course of 26 turns. 

Machine crystal is about as brittle as...I dunno, really high-carbon steel.  It doesn't have the same flexibility as steel and tends to accumulate microfractures.  It's not a concern for most things like axes, but for stuff that experiences periodic, cyclical stress like circuits or machinery (like the steam engine) it would be a concern.  That's not to say you can't make steam engines out of crystal, and a good design would make that problem negligible.  Your crystals experience the same issues and properties that all crystals experience.

[VoidSlayer]

I say we go for ambitious and if we fail bad somewhere revise a fix.

Exploding shells should be a full design, whichever final plan we go for, next turn.  Combine all that we know and add a few new things in.

[Chiefwaffles]

Hmmm...let's saaay it's slightly more brittle than high-carbon steel?  It won't be a major factor unless it's in a piece of equipment that regularly experiences systematic stress, like a joint or lever or something.  It'd be fine as a breastplate - it's not going to crack if you trip and fall while wearing it, or even if someone hacks at it.  Might have issues with bludgeoning weapons like hammers, though, but no one has any of those kinds of weapons.

Weren't crystal weapons supposed to be markedly superior to steel in every way? Wouldn't mass-produced crystal still be better than steel if it's just slightly worse to hand-made crystal?

*shrug*

sure, whatever.  same brittality as hardened steel.

Did you change your mind?
(Not trying to be hostile at all; just confused. Whether or not I include crystal steam engines in the Crystalclad depends on this.)

Also Void pls vote for Crystalclads to make more of a consensus and perhaps even an update sooner.

[evictedSaint]

I'm just trying to reconcile the original description of crystals with your new machine-made version.  It won't make much of a difference, in the grand scheme of things.  If you roll well on a crystal engine design then it wont matter, and if you rolled badly it would be something like "the engine has a tendency to crack after x amount of hours despite being lighter" etc.  The small details really don't make a big difference beyond being obvious "fix this for a +1" flag.

[RAM]

Arrogant speculation alert, this is all hypothetical theoretical assumptions.
I would have thought that crystal would behave very differently from metal. Metal tends to harden from repeated stresses and turn brittle. Crystal has a very precise structure and starts off brittle. I would expect that the vast majority of stresses on crystal are a matter of either working or not working, which would make maintenance and operation a very binary matter. You can't really repair crystal without growing it again and machining it again, probably with a fault-line where the old growth misaligns with the new growth. So, basically, repairs are impossible, you need replacements. Conversly, it doesn't really suffer from degenerative failure. It will have its surface grind off if subjected to the correct forces, and chips can be taken out, but I am not familiar with crystals suffering from repeated heating and cooling. Either it expands enough to shatter along a fault, or it doesn't.
 I would imagine that we can either make steam-engines of proportionately large volume out of crystal, which don;t really fail without outside help, and lighter due to superior material performance compared to weight, or smaller metal steam engines which can be maintained and repaired but also need repairs and maintenance. So the metal ones would get you more power for the same volume and could be maintained in the field, while the crystal ones would get your more power per weight and last longer but would need to go back to dock when they failed.

[Chiefwaffles]

I do like the idea of regenerative crystal. After we get some machine crystal designs out we could revise/design it as an addition to the Crystalworks. Proobably not a revision, but as a design maybe? That part's hard because it feels like an action between a design and revision.
But it could definitely be a huge help - everything that uses crystal would just repair itself on the field. Crystalclads spontaneously regenerate holes knocked through the armor, personal armor repairs itself; any crystal design could benefit from it.

[Kadzar]

Hello. I have just spent the past few days reading through this entire thread, and would like to join the design team of glorious Arstotzka!

Also, I will vote for the Crystalclad, though I have two recommendations of things to cut: 1. The Magegem system seems cool, but it might not be ready for implementation on a ship at this time, since I don't think we have confirmation yet that even the most powerful kind can power the necessary fireball spell, much less any work having been done to configure the devices to be compatible. 2. Making the engines out of crystal is also pretty risky. It certainly has benefits, but I'd feel safer at least making it its own revision.

3 - Crystalclad: Chiefwaffles, Andres, Kadzar
1 - Rod To God: RAM
0 Ragnarok Rounds
0 Metaconjuration
0 Vine Mine
0 Antiluck wards

Also, I was planning to do some sort of RP introduction of myself being a common soldier who went to the mage academy so that he could join the design team and give those eggheads a piece of his mind, but it's late and I'm tired, so maybe next time.

[Chiefwaffles]

The Magegem system I'm confident in. They're mostly there to allow for fewer apprentices on board the ship - a few can simply recharge the Magegems when needed. Worst case scenario, the Magegems don't work particularly well with the cannons and our apprentices have to all sit in the Magegem room when firing. The point is now that we can power the ship from a centralized location reducing the amount of apprentices needed. It benefits the entire design and is a simple addition, as we already have Magegems.
I'm not too sure about the crystal engines too, though. Because it is sneaking a revision onto a design. At this point, I'm probably going to let it sit until morning and hope to get more feedback or if Evicted does it, mercy from the god that is RnG.

You should post your joining story in the core thread to share examples of Arstotzkan dominance. Though I find it a bit hard to believe that an apprentice survived passed their combat "exam". I guess there's a first for anything; even the impossible.

Also on a lesser note, I really want to revise breech-loading cannons some day. I'm not even sure how we're loading the HA1 at this point. Ladders? Human stacking?
Some day.

[RAM]

read through this entire thread
would like to join

Oxymoronsayswhat?
Welcome aboard! We always have room for the mad ones!