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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 393589 times)

andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2250 on: May 11, 2017, 04:59:47 pm »

a big balloon is significantly harder to hinder than a wasp, and we have antimagic arrows aimed at them. Plus , for spotting it doesn't need to be anywhere close to them.
But you don't need to convince me, I am not voting for such a thing.

A giant sequoia would work well for spotting as well and more resistant to winds... but our plant magic seems to suffer extremely slow improvements as well.

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2251 on: May 11, 2017, 05:01:09 pm »

There's no way they can use strong wind magic on top of those things. They'd blow themselves out of the air and all over the place.

They already do it to stop arrows, which are much harder to blow away than insects.

Quote
I think it's time to bring the venerable sport of Moskurg-skeet shooting to the masses and get our first musket. Also magic storage which also very important and, if we don't fail horribly we can make faux HE rounds for our cannons.

The GM said that stored spells must be a separate design.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 05:03:20 pm by 10ebbor10 »
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helmacon

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2252 on: May 11, 2017, 05:02:10 pm »

(I'm just gonna jump into this game here)

If the carpet bombers (pun intended) are not using anti-magic, why aren't we using spells like "summon swarm" or "Webs" on them?

Alright, I think these frost towers have a lot of potential, but revising them to have a broader effect is the wrong way to go about it. For one, I think we would run into the problem of diminishing returns, but it would also be easy for them to counter if it became a problem for them. I think we ought to revise the frost towers to be smaller, and more concentrated.

Frost Thrower Heavy weapon emplacement
Using the basic principles developed with the frost tower and steam engines, The frost thrower projects a directed cone of extremely cold material over a short range.

The basic apparatus is simple. A large pressurized tank of water is connected to two flexible hoses. In front of the tank sits a chair on a 180 degree swivel. The two hoses are attached to an armored frame around the chair, ending on a piece of metal jutting straight out at an angle. The operator can target the apparatus using the swivel, and controls a valve to fire a pressurized stream of water. At this point, the device is essentially an armored water cannon.
The inside of the tank is inscribed with runes to keep the water at just above freezing temperatures. A metal attachment on the end of the hoses is inscribed with runes to amplify a freezing spell, allowing it to act fast enough to flash freeze the water as it is projected out from the hoses. This drops the temperature of the material to well below 0. On impact it can kill organic targets. It easily bypasses non-insulated armor, and renders normally resilient materials brittle and vulnerable.  We already understand cold magic from the frost towers, pressurization from the steam engines, and runic inscription from our cannons.

No matter what point the miniaturization gets it too, this will still be useful.
If it stays tower sized, it can be used to freeze specific skirmish sites prior to an assault. At the size of artillery/cannon it can be used to wipe out an advancing squad or cavalry charge at short to mid range, or to freeze thier carpet bombers mid air. It could also be mounted on ships to provide a versatile armament that could be fired on both aerial targets, or other ships.
At an even smaller size, we could place the tanks on the backs of our apprentices and use the frost thrower to clear out trenches or fortified positions.
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Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2253 on: May 11, 2017, 05:04:10 pm »

There's no way they can use strong wind magic on top of those things. They'd blow themselves out of the air and all over the place.

They already do it to stop arrows, which are much harder to blow away than insects.

On top of a magic levitating carpet? Without losing stability? Well that sucks...
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2254 on: May 11, 2017, 05:05:45 pm »

Quote
why aren't we using spells like "summon swarm" or "Webs" on them?

They have a simple Wind spell which allows them to blow away insects. Webs can only be cast by very experienced mages.

On top of a magic levitating carpet? Without losing stability? Well that sucks...

Yup, Moskurg is silly.
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Light forger

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2255 on: May 11, 2017, 05:08:14 pm »

The GM said that stored spells must be a separate design.

Anddd what else are we making? Possibly the spring striker? Otherwise it's just a smaller cannon which thanks to how our boring tech works should be easier to make then our current cannons.
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helmacon

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2256 on: May 11, 2017, 05:12:29 pm »

If they are using a wind spell for defence, then they can't be dropping bombs at the same time, or flying around. Essentially, use the wasps to hold the stationary, and then hit them with the bomb arrows. If they try to move, the wasps dive in and set thier carpets on fire. If they don't move, the bombs blow them out of the air. ...well, assuming it's only one person on the carpet. I don't think it was explicitly mentioned how many people they had on each carpet.
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andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2257 on: May 11, 2017, 05:25:05 pm »

Quote
2 - Improved Frost Towers: Andres, 10ebbor10

removing my vote, as I am unsure how to go forward.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 05:27:52 pm by andrea »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2258 on: May 11, 2017, 05:26:41 pm »

For now I'm going to post some updated designs that I've been half-keeping for contingencies:

Design: AS-HC3 "Unending"
This design is simple. The AS-HA1 and AS-HC2 are limited in their fire rates. Ammunition can only be loaded so fast - every time one of these weapons is fired, the crew has to manually load in new shells from the front, putting them in danger of enemy ranged fire as well as greatly increasing the load times. In order to load a gun, a shell must be brought to the front and pushed all the way to the back with rifling. So we aimed to fix this.
The AS-HC3 Unending has a new "breech-loading" mechanism - shells can be loaded in via what essentially amounts to an openable hatch in the back. Once the gun is fired, the soldier in charge of reloading merely opens the hatch and easily inserts a shell before resuming fire. This increases the rate of fire by an insane degree.
Further compounding this is a somewhat minor reduction in barrel and shell size. The accuracy (and range) is carefully maintained, but the smaller shell size also provides an advantage in reloading - one person can more quickly load smaller shells and smaller shells can be transported in greater bulk. The reductions in barrel size could also theoretically lead to a cheaper overall cannon, but this is low priority to the rest of the design - the aimed Expense target is "Expensive", which shouldn't be an issue considering the expense of the AS-HC1-E. If all else succeeds, then expense can be worked on.
The AS-HC3 is also placed on what we call a "swivel" mount. With the use of careful mathemagics in mundane areas, we found a way to produce joints allowing for the AS-HC3 to have much greater maximum angles of rotation both horizontally and vertically.

The result is a much faster-firing cannon at the expense of shell size, that also has a much greater freedom of movement. This way our AS-HC3 operators can easily target flying targets, and we've found it works great for close-quarters combat both at sea and land.
The AS-HC3 is designed to completely replace the AS-HC1-E in the field.

BENEFITS:
- +++Reloading Time
- ++Firing Angles
- +Cheap? (Extremely low priority)

TL;DR:
We radically improve the firing rates of the HC1-E and put it on a swivel mount so it has much greater mobility in terms of firing angles. Cheapness is also a low priority aspect of this design. The idea for using it here is as a very primitive AA cannon and a general improvement against the HC1-E.

Design/Revision: Flak Shells. AS-SO1-AA "Turbulence"
The new flying carpets are worrying.
But we can easily make them non-worrying.
Introducing the new AS-SO1-AA Turbulence! The shell is technically based off of the SO1-AM Equalizer and Anti-magic bomb designs. In a way. at the very tip of the shell is an anti-magic bomb crystal. This crystal isn't needed for its effects, so the tiny amount
needed is extremely easy to produce and provide for the shells. When the shell hits a magic field such as the one we'd assume that they would use in their cowardly flying carpets, the anti-magic bomb crystal will "explode". This by itself won't do much, but the
crystal is placed in such a way that when it explodes, the rest of the shell follows. The shell will violently blow apart in mid-air. It doesn't have any actual explosive material in it, but the ripping apart of the shell will create a small area of effect for the bomb.
In fact, this area of effect is small enough that it'd likely be worse than the impact area of a regular shell, but in the air it's vital as regular shells require direct hits in order to do any damage, but Turbulence shells can be much more off-course and still actually
hit their target.
TL;DR: Revise a variant of bomb to blow apart (relatively non-explosively) in magic fields. Primitive flak shell.
EDIT: To be even more clear, this is basically an anti-magic shell light. The anti-magic portion is only used as a trigger for the shell to rip apart. It has a small radius of effect but it should make our artillery much better against flying carpets. Probably worse than the HC3 design, though. Unless it's used as a revision in conjunction with the HC3.

More to come later.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2259 on: May 11, 2017, 05:31:38 pm »

Just going to throw this out there, because at this point it would be fun. And we've been completely void of fun for decades at this point.
Lazarus Initiative

Given the sorry state of affairs, Arstotzka initiated its final steps towards ending this war. Only out of desperation could these methods be justified.

Given the enemies incredible advances in helicopters fly carpets and wind technology, Arstotzkan mages found they had more bodies than they knew what to do with. With the hordes of enemies taking a foothold in our homeland, we had no choice but to do the unthinkable.

Wights, undead creatures which fill ancient lore of our nation. Using our knowledge of life magic (plants, wasps, and their related spell components), we looked for ways to harden our soldiers against death.

Design proposition:
Using our knowledge of life magic that we gained during our study of plant growth, we discover a way to prevent death from taking hold of our soldiers. We overcharge the corpses of our fallen with a modified life spell, returning them to our ranks and forever preventing them from passing into the next life. This changes their bodies and souls so that they will continue fighting the Moskurgs long after any mortal man would have died. These angry powerful creatures cannot be stopped, only broken down into smaller and smaller pieces. They never stop fighting to destroy the Moskurgs.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2260 on: May 11, 2017, 05:40:33 pm »

At this point I don't think hot air balloons are viable.
They're at complete mercy to their Wind magic. And there's not really anything we can ever do to fix this.

Design:AS-AMD1 "Obelisk"
Arstotzkan Anti-Magic Device 1 "Obelisk"
Using the lessons learned from the anti-magic charm and the Equalizer anti-magic shell, we've developed something new: The Obelisk.
The obelisk is fitting in its name. It's not particularly tall - roughly 8 feet. It is transported from site to site and is not constructed on site. The obelisk is, of course, an anti-magic device but with two improvements:
1.) Expense. The Obelisk utilizes cheaper materials to provide the anti-magic effect, but thanks to mathemagics, the materials are optimized to perform just as well as anti-magic charms.
2.) Selectiveness. The field of Mathemagics has revealed that we can fine-tune our anti-magic charms even more. Different types of magics ultimately appear different at a more detailed level than that used by our anti-magic charms. The Obelisk can be made to be more selective and block out certain types of magic - namely those types (WIND) used by (WIND) Moskurg (WIND).
The Obelisk has a decent but not extremely impressive range. The range is designed so in conjunction with expense, Obelisks can be easily spread across our camps and fortifications to provide semi-permanent anti-magic protection. The range should be enough to reach the typical distance flown by Moskurg carpets.

TL;DR: A small transportable structure that selectively blocks Moskurg anti-magic.
Feel free to vote on any of the designs I'm posting, by the way. If I'm posting them I'm fine going along with them if others support them. Next one to post is probably updated Crystalworks or Magegems.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2261 on: May 11, 2017, 05:55:21 pm »

I lied. It's magegems.
Design: Magegems
We've begun to explore the new areas of magic without the presence of our mages. Magegems are gems (or crystals) based on the anti-magic charm. But where the anti-magic charm actively absorbed ambient energy, a magegem does nothing of the sort. Energy can be actively input into the gem by a mage of any skill level, then the gem can be safely handled by anyone; mundane or not.
A magegem does nothing on its own other than storing energy. But when inserted into a compatible device, circuits on the device can actively draw energy from the magegem, allowing for items with much more drastic effects. Without a magegem, circuits are limited to sustaining low-power existing spells. But with magegems, circuits can actually cast spells and enact significant changes to the surrounding reality. HA1 and HCx series weapons will be able to fire without a mage casting the required spells. Steam engines will be able to start, stop, and last longer without a magician. And more!

Converting our current designs to work with magegems is a simple task. Most modern designs utilize circuits, which means all that has to be done is to configure the circuits to draw power from the magegem instead of a mage. Non-circuit based devices can also be converted fairly easily, as the lack of a circuit suggests making one wouldn't be a complicated task for that particular device. For example, the HA1 already utilizes circuits, so a slot can be very easily added to it and the circuits configured to draw energy from an input magegem.

Magegems at the moment are planned to be only distributed in bulk to sites making use of them, like artillery. But if our soldiers ever require them, they can be issued with a handful of magegems to use on the field to power equipment. Magegems are designed to be reusable - soldiers are instructed to safely store depleted magegems until an apprentice is available to recharge them. But even if there are no apprentices available, the energy stored in magegems should last for long enough. Artillery configured to use magegems, for example, may ultimately require apprentices to charge the magegems, but as each artillery piece won't require the constant attention of apprentices, a single apprentice can be assigned to many different artillery pieces with the simple task of recharging depleted magegems.

As a part of this design, HA1 Onslaughts and HC1-E's have been tweaked to accept magegems. Considerations were made to equip steam engines and other devices with compatibility for magegems, but that was deemed out of scope for now. Future iterations of those devices can be made compatible and the ease of converting likely means adding magegem compatibility can be done as part of a larger revision.

TL;DR: Magic storage. Potentially not immediately useful but has extreme number of possibilities. Mundane artillery, engines, etc. freeing our mages, Crystalworks, Magic Rifles, Grenades (Revision - add a priming mechanism to make them explode), and more.



Design: Crystalworks
Crystal is the future. Sure, it may last 24 hours and disappears when the enemy gets nearby, but it's still the future, and the Crystalworks shall make that a reality.
The crystalworks is, essentially, a building placed by the river (which I assume exists). This river powers steam engines that power the mundane portions of the factory.

The Crystalworks is simple: Instead of wasting wizards to make exact shapes of crystal, we let machinery do it for us. Crystal is constantly being summoned by circuits, yet instead of a single circuit making perfect ready-made crystal shapes, the work is divided into multiple circuits across multiple "conveyors" powered by steam engines. These circuits progressively work on the crystal - the crystal starts as raw "blobs" but its hardness, weight, shape, and more is refined and manipulated as the crystal moves throughout the Crystalworks. Eventually the finished product is deposited in large storage containers that are regularly emptied to be brought to the field.
The result is much cheaper crystal items and products.

We've found that crystals are, in a way, "bound" to the summoning wizard. Being dispelled is likely breaking the connection to the wizard. So what if we made the crystals connected to themselves? Then the crystal is a solid object, now completely free of magic and immune to dispelling. The nature of the circuits used in the Crystalworks works great for this - the circuits can easily make "isolated" Crystal because the circuits are "isolated" themselves. No wizard is making this crystal.
The result is permanent crystals no longer tied to magic and therefore no longer dispelable.

As a very minor feature in addition to the selling points of the Crystalworks, it's created in a very modular configuration. It has multiple crystal lines and more can be added easily. These lines can be configured without difficulty to produce different products as we come up with new crystal-based designs.

Finally, powering these circuits is not an easy task. The steam engines may power the mundane aspects such as these conveyors, but a way to power the circuits constantly summoning and manipulating crystal was the hardest aspect of the Spellworks. The result is a series of gems placed in a central part of the Crystalworks that store magical energy. These gems are based heavily on our anti-magic charms, but don't include the "absorb magic" part. They simple store magic. Apprentices can easily input magic into them and then very simple circuits can deliver this magical energy to the rest of the factory. These gems do need to be routinely charged by apprentices, but a mere handful of apprentices can work together to keep the factory powered constantly thanks to the fact that it doesn't need to be constantly charged.
The gems are large, heavy, and expensive. To use them anywhere else would likely require serious design considerations.

The main goal here is to just make crystal better and lay the groundwork to use it (and metal I guess) in our magitech designs. We can still use our metal bonus - things don't have to be 100% crystal or 100% metal.
Crystalworks Design Principles (In order of importance)
1.) Magic batteries
2.) Anchored (permanent+dispel-immune) Crystals.
3.) Cheap crystal anything in the future
Crystalworks Benefits
1.) Make existing crystal weapons usable again
2.) Make current + future crystal designs cheaper.
3.) Helps Crystalclad, crystal armor, more crystal weapons, etc.
4.) Provides infrastructure for complicated designs. (Things like the HA1 can be made to use crystal ammunition. It'd be lighter, stronger, and cheaper to make+treansport. Crystal can be worked into a lot of designs to let the Crystalworks "cover" them in terms of manufacturing. Just be sure to mention it in their designs)


Crystalworks was just copy+pasted from an earlier Future Design post of mine. For maximum safeness (especially consider all the roll penalties we've been getting lately) we can do it after magegems. But I believe it's still a very viable option to develop primitive magegems here then make actual Magegems in a revision.

But again, now is the time to develop infrastructure. We're at a point in defense where Moskurg may not be able to immediately push out again, and there's nothing we immediately lose if we lose ground anywhere (other than Mountains which we've got pretty much covered still). We can use this time to develop infrastructure critical for other things, like the Crystalworks. Want Crystalclad or functioning crystal again? Crystal caltrops? Crystal weapons? Choose the crystalworks!

If anyone thinks the Crystalworks is too ambitious, let me know and I can trim it down.

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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2262 on: May 11, 2017, 05:56:24 pm »

I would trim down descriptions a bit, the more concise the less chance of misunderstandings.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2263 on: May 11, 2017, 05:57:44 pm »

I can trim down the descriptions of any particular design if someone wants me to, but I'd rather not do all of them because that does in fact happen to take time to do.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2264 on: May 11, 2017, 06:09:21 pm »

I'm telling you, we're beating a dead horse here with this future tech. Now if we could just reanimate that dead horse, then we'd actually have something.
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