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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 393501 times)

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2100 on: May 09, 2017, 03:05:54 pm »

Andrea, y'know. The HA1 uses crystal energy storage. It's also an improvement in general to many aspects of ballistics. It's also mundane-useable.
So if we make the HA1 then we'll get a lot closer to rifles.

Also we'll be able to use our revision on something useful instead of upgrading obsolete cannons.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2101 on: May 09, 2017, 03:08:48 pm »

I know, I know... but I also want to have a factory! factories are great.
eh, changing vote.


Quote from: Designs
Spell-forged Steamworks: (4) RAM, 10ebbor10, Roboson,Andrea
AS-HA1 "Onslaught": (4.5) Chiefwaffles, RAM.75, Lightforger, Azzuro, Andrea
Shrouder Shell: (1) FallacyofUrist
More powerful, longer ranged MFTs: (1) Andres
Pillar of unmagic: (.5) RAM.5

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2102 on: May 09, 2017, 03:12:19 pm »

How are you guys not tired of cannons yet? Factory helps our cannons, and we can then later revise it to make anything else later. Industrial revolution much anyone? Cannons are so overdone at this point.

EDIT:

I know, I know... but I also want to have a factory! factories are great.
eh, changing vote.


Quote from: Designs
Spell-forged Steamworks: (4) RAM, 10ebbor10, Roboson,Andrea
AS-HA1 "Onslaught": (4.5) Chiefwaffles, RAM.75, Lightforger, Azzuro, Andrea
Shrouder Shell: (1) FallacyofUrist
More powerful, longer ranged MFTs: (1) Andres
Pillar of unmagic: (.5) RAM.5

This makes no sense, you changed your vote so that factory loses...
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2103 on: May 09, 2017, 03:12:53 pm »

Polling closed.  HA1 "Onslaught" wins.

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2104 on: May 09, 2017, 03:18:14 pm »

Anyone else beginning to miss magic?  ???
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2105 on: May 09, 2017, 03:20:08 pm »

/evillaughing

We can probably, assuming no game changers from Moskurg, do the factory next design phase. We can revise for fixing the Equalizer, skirmish, bugs, or maybe even Flare this revision phase.
The HA1, if it goes well, will make us win the artillery game and we will either keep that advantage or force Moskurg to counter it while we do other things next turn.

Because this is more than just a sequential design. I've said this before, but it's a culmination of lots of our recent efforts. We've had a lot of improvements just waiting to actually work and the HA1 should realize them. I doubt Moskurg has the same, so we can do more in a design phase to or artillery than they can. 

Of course, this is only if it gets good rolls. It probably won't.


@Roboson:
...he says, after voting for a factory.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2106 on: May 09, 2017, 03:28:18 pm »

/evillaughing

@Roboson:
...he says, after voting for a factory.

At least it was a magic factory. It was interesting, and new, and could be used to make tanks and submarines someday. Or literally anything. Cannons are just such a losing battle. Here's how the Cannons Race game goes:

M: 10 badass points
A: 1 badass point
M: 1 badass point
A: 1 badass point
A: 1 badass point
M: 1 badass point
A: 1 badass point
A: 1 badass point
M: 1 badass point
M: 1 badass point
A: 1 badass point
M: 1 badass point
A: 1 badass point
M: 1 badass point
A: 1 badass point
M: 1 badass point
A: 1 badass point
M: 1 badass point

And this goes on forever, but the enemy is always going to have those lucky strike bonus points. Cannons cannot win. Magic ammo or something like that might be able to do some extra good shit, but just making the cannons better won't get us where we want to go.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2107 on: May 09, 2017, 03:30:40 pm »

You are forgetting something.

We have a ton of steam engineering experience, and we can harness that.

In any case, we have reached the pinnacle of cannon engineering with this design.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2108 on: May 09, 2017, 03:34:31 pm »

Oh, no, yeah. I completely understand. This kinds of arms race (heh) definitely isn't a new thing.
Unless we absolutely need to in order to counter some OP Moskurg thing and if the HA1 works, I'm done with cannon designs after this.
Like I said, this is a culmination of lots of semi-failed designs and revisions as well as designs that didn't directly address cannons. Logically this should make the design do more at a lower risk.

Basically:
Before:
Arstotzka - 0.7
Moskurg: 1
After:
Arstotzka: 2.2
Moskurg: 1.

Where numbers are some sort of abstraction for the artillery game. We can do more in this design than they should be able to with theirs, meaning if they want to catch up they have to spend more effort than us.

And also what Ebbor ninja'd me with.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2109 on: May 09, 2017, 03:45:49 pm »

Indeed, this cannon should be more or less the peak. If it works flawlessly, there is nothing else we could add, besides more shells.
Factory next turn sounds good. And maybe a proper boat after.

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2110 on: May 09, 2017, 03:52:57 pm »

... Well now we need to spend our revision on getting the metal bonus to our ships.
Infantry rifles will not work currently due to antimagic.

I am in favour of some sort of crystal-encased metal hull. The metal can host a crystal-summoning circuit to protect itself from the elements and add a bit off rigidity. The weight needs to drop post-haste. We could try reinforcing the boilers with crystal to cut down on metal use though I don't know if that would get our metal bonus. We need more of them and we need them lighter... Wood is already pretty strong and light, so just, "replace it all with metal" won't necessarily work. We could revise their hulls to sit eeper in the water, with metal-core crystal hulls or something...

If their antimagic goes long-ranged then we have problems. I would still like to try revising an antimagic charm into an anti'anything even reomotely resembling magic' charm with massive capacity and no range, that could be used as wards to stop enemy antimagic from getting past them.

I really want a conjurmelon vine. It makes water-melons that are filled with slow-summoned caltrops that, due to having a justification for existing better than "I wiggled my fingers in it's general direction" might be permanent, stable, and natural, thus being immune to anything but the most meta of antimagic. With the experience of that we could make a glorious defense flower, a spread of vines, studded with caltrops and threaded with spiderwebs, with flowers that produce fog, and an underground reservoir of fire wasps at its centre. When disturbed it would flail around with its vines, produce a cloud of confusing fog, and then release a swarm of glowing wasps, that, while quickly blown away, will light up the target zone for our night-shift artillery...
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2111 on: May 09, 2017, 03:55:36 pm »

We're gradually working towards indirect antiantimagic with our circuits and energy storage stuff.
Also deep hulls is one of the reasons why our Fog-O-Wars were (aren't?) doing amazingly at sea. Speaking of which...
Evicted, did the anti-magic condenser's reductions to steam engine weight help with the "sink after single hit" problems our SPB1's were having?
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2112 on: May 09, 2017, 04:02:50 pm »

Not enough, as was noted. They reduces weight just a tiny bit.

Oh, and circuits and anti-magic don't actually stop antimagic.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2113 on: May 09, 2017, 04:07:31 pm »

Well, that's annoying, but oh well.
And that's my point about circuits and energy storage stuff. Kind of. Even though we could without a doubt make much quicker progress in the antiantimagic department if we focused, our other developments (circuits, energy storage) are gradually moving towards antiantimagic. With a bit more general development, we could most likely easily use circuits, energy storage, and other magitech to easily make antiantimagic. Not now, though.

But with that being said, I hope to god that I will never see the word "antiantiantimagic" typed in a serious tone in this thread.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2114 on: May 09, 2017, 04:26:24 pm »

Design: AS-HA1 "Onslaught" [6+1-1, 5+1-3, 4+2-3]

The AS-HA1 is ambituous.  Perhaps our most ambituous piece of equipment yet. 

The cannon sheds its name in favor of a new one that more accurately reflects its function: Artillery.  The steel barrel is the longest one we've built yet and stretches the limits of our metalworking capability - manufactured barrels require lengthy periods of tempering, sanding, shaving and chiseling to get within the correct tolerances, as such large, whole peices of metal tend to warp once cooled.  The complicated series of steam valves, boilers, water-loaders, drains, and tubing requires careful maintenance, but is again the largest we've ever built.  It requires three apprentices working in tandem to generate three separate PSFs to flash-steam several buckets of water to a super-heated state.  This drives a shell the length of a mans arm from elbow to knuckle down the tube, sending it sailing beyond Extreme Range to Beyond Line-Of-Sight Range.  The solid iron shell is devestating for whatever it hits, but the rounds tend to bury themselves in the ground otherwise and provide minimal splash damage.  It is accurate at Beyond LOS to within 20 meters, within 15 meters at Extreme, 10 at Long, 5 at Medium.  The rifled barrel is to thank for this unprecidented accuracy.  Due to the larger inner bore it's much easier to chisel the rifling by hand, despite there being more material to remove.  It's still not machine-perfect, but it's better than anything else in the world (and will be for six more centuries).  The gold-inscribed circuit cools the barrel enough between each firing event that a highly trained team could get off four shots per minute.  The heavy wooden carriage allows angling between -45° and 45°.  It must be affixed to walls when firing downward, but doesn't jump like the HC1.  At lower angles its shots will skip, tumble, and break apart into lethal shrapnel, but at higher ones it will make a small crater in the ground.

The ammunition is still unique to each individual artillery piece due to variences in construction, and stone ammo crafted in the field will break and jam due to the incredible stresses the cannon puts on it.  The incredible weight and size of the ammo means an entire supply train is needed to bring enough into battle for sustained firing.  Likewise, the sheer size of the HA1 and need to be set up and taken down before moving means we will have to destroy it when retreating, lest it fall into Moskurg hands.  It is too heavy to be mounted on any of our existing boats, and even if we could a single firing would flip it.  The gold circuit is also proving to be less reliable; attempting to fire too fast means it can't cool down quickly enough and the gold will melt and run out of the engravings.  Weapon failure generally occurs soon after.  Additonally, the incredible rate at which the cannon consumes water means it must either ship water with the ammo or set up near a stream or lake.  It is also very obvious - the cannon sticks out above our lines, making it a target if the enemy gets within firing range. 

The Circuit, Metal Cost, and Rifling all hurt the cost of this device, offset by our metal bonus in the mountains. 

The ambituous nature hurt the effectiveness and bug probability, but our experience building cannons helped offset that. 

Having never built an artillery piece this big introduced some further bugs, but our experience integrating steam, circuitry, and rifling helped offset that.

Despite my better judgement, it is merely Very Expensive. 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 04:52:07 pm by evictedSaint »
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