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[evictedSaint]

Revising the cannon will let you take into account the plentiful ore in the mountain and (although it wont do it automatically) let you make it cheaper as a bonus action.

Example:  A new magical circuit design on the cannon won't make it automatically a level cheaper, since you're not dealing with the cannon manufacturing process.

Improving the cannon's overall design, figuring out how to do rifling better/cheaper, or standardizing the production tolerances to allow homogenous ammo across all cannons would automatically drop the cost because it involves overhauling the manufacturing process.

[andrea]

Regarding the cannon, one of the improvements for cheapness we could make is trying to substitute the gold in the frost enchantment with other metals, such as copper.
Of course, standardized parts would perhaps be a priority ( gold can be mad ein very thing foils after all). at some point, we could actually decide to design a factory.

small note about the revision: knowledge of circuits may be the key to making the antimagic shells work. Remember, during the last combat one shot fell close enough to the ballista, and lucky tsrike was countered. circuits mean we can use cheaper, worse crystals and just activate them by circuit. A well designed circuit with a proper spell could also act as a fuse to detonate the shell in flight, filling the field with anti magic shrapnel.

[evictedSaint]

It seems like AS-HA1 is in the lead.  Unless that changes soon I'll roll up the design.

[10ebbor10]

That is better than I expected, and does change my ideas about it.

Since we have a guarantee that we can drop the cost of the cannons in the revision, I see no need at all in doing it in the design action.

Designs!
1.75 AS-HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles RAM.75 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447733#msg7447733
1 Shrouder Shell: FallacyofUrist http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447735#msg7447735
1 Flameshrieker Shells: Lightforger http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447746#msg7447746
2 Spell-forged Steamworks: RAM, 10ebbor10 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
.5 Pillar of unmagic: RAM.5 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
1 More powerful, longer ranged MFTs: Andres http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7448054#msg7448054

Spoiler: Posts without votes (click to show/hide)

Designs :

0 Deadly Spiders:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447753#msg7447753
0 Anti-magic mosquitos:
0 Crystal Pyramid Bunker:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447865#msg7447865
0 Fire Ball Staff:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447865#msg7447865
0 antiluck charm: RAM http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761


Revisions!
0 Revealing Mist:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447772#msg7447772
0 Flare:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447772#msg7447772

Spoiler: Reactions to all Designs (click to show/hide)

"Onslaught"

While a good design, I'm not entirely sold.

Shrouder Shell

Expanding upon a national effort spell without addressing it's flaws, very risky. Oh, and I fear that antimagic mist would fall prey to Moskurg wind spells.

Flameshrieker Shells

Extra range is nice, but not that usefull without spotters. Explosions are also nice, but I'm not sure if we need extra lethality.

Spell-forged Steamworks

An interesting idea, certainly, that should aid us in both naval and cannonry related matters.

antiluck charm

A Charm that explicitly includes drawbacks in it's description does not seem nice.

Tower of anti-magic

Nice Superweapon, but now I feel we should focus more on deploying existing advantages

Crystal Pyramid Bunker

Nice weapon, but does not help at Sea

Fire Ball Staff

The primary problem here is that not even our mages are using fireballs now, due to lack of range

More powerful, longer ranged MFTs

Protection against the elements is listed as a cheap spell in the OP. I do not want to encourage the Moskurgians to develop it, and hence don't want to push them too much with cold.

knowledge of circuits may be the key to making the antimagic shells work. Remember, during the last combat one shot fell close enough to the ballista, and lucky tsrike was countered. circuits mean we can use cheaper, worse crystals and just activate them by circuit. A well designed circuit with a proper spell could also act as a fuse to detonate the shell in flight, filling the field with anti magic shrapnel.

I don't see how Circuits would accomplish that.

Using bad crystals seems like it would make them more likely to break. Detonating the shell just stops the antimagic from working.

Remember, any damage to the circuit stops the entire thing from working altogether.

It seems like AS-HA1 is in the lead.  Unless that changes soon I'll roll up the design.

I am changing it.

Primarily because the AS-HA1 for some reason ignores we have a way to make spells permanent (the circuits) and tries to make it's own crystal based energy storage instead.

[Roboson]

Designs!
1.75 AS-HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles RAM.75 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447733#msg7447733
1 Shrouder Shell: FallacyofUrist http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447735#msg7447735
1 Flameshrieker Shells: Lightforger http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447746#msg7447746
3 Spell-forged Steamworks: RAM, 10ebbor10 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
.5 Pillar of unmagic: RAM.5 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
1 More powerful, longer ranged MFTs: Andres http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7448054#msg7448054

Because whoever made this list forgot to put spiders on it, I must vote for the magic forges. It just seems like it will really assist all of our production needs.

Edit: Still, poisoning our enemies before we even fight them would give us an unquestionable advantage. Moreso than another cannon design.

[10ebbor10]

Spiders are cold blooded.

[Roboson]

Spiders are cold blooded.

So they'll move into the warmth of the Moskurg desert wind and find a nice boot to live in. Also most spiders, at least nontropical spiders, produce an anti-freezing agent in their bodies.

[Chiefwaffles]

Uh. I doubt we can store the energy required with circuits. Heavily so. Sure they may be able to sustain constant enchantments, but actually casting spells with just circuits? I doubt it.
I can change the design if they would convince anyone, though.

And Evicted, I still don't really understand. You say it's a bonus action to make it cheaper thanks to the metals but we still need to explicitly revise that? Or is it "revise something semi-related to it and automatically get the expense thing"?

[10ebbor10]

We don't need to cast a spell to fire the cannon though. An adjustable enchantment will do just fine.

We can turn steam into water, why should the reverse be harder?

[Light forger]

Speed, you can turn steam into water over a few seconds. You need to turn water into steam almost instantly.
Anyway swapping to the cannon we need more guns.

Spell-forged Steamworks: (3) RAM, 10ebbor10, Roboson
AS-HA1 "Onslaught": (2.75) Chiefwaffles, RAM.75, Lightforger
Shrouder Shell: (1) FallacyofUrist
More powerful, longer ranged MFTs: (1) Andres
Pillar of unmagic: (.5) RAM.5

[evictedSaint]

Or is it "revise something semi-related to it and automatically get the expense thing"?

Yes.

And because I did a poor job clarifying, your circuits run off an on-going minor enchantment (which still requires a terribly complex and expensive circuit just to "keep something the right temperature").  The circuit allows an enchantment to remain permanently - it draws the energy to function off the mage casting the PSF's to power the steam engine or cannon (like the gas-blowback system on an assault rifle).

I'm sorry I didn't make that clear, I was a bit distracted when writing it up.

[Azzuro]

Spell-forged Steamworks: (3) RAM, 10ebbor10, Roboson
AS-HA1 "Onslaught": (3.75) Chiefwaffles, RAM.75, Lightforger, Azzuro
Shrouder Shell: (1) FallacyofUrist
More powerful, longer ranged MFTs: (1) Andres
Pillar of unmagic: (.5) RAM.5

Voting for more and better cannons. I'd prefer the Moskurgs not to do another ballista upgrade and outrange us even further if they do, so going for this will give us equivalence, or artillery superiority if they don't.

[andrea]

keep in mind that the steamworks is a design that specifically makes our canno0ns cheaper while improving overall quality. And we have a revision as well.

Spell-forged Steamworks: (4) RAM, 10ebbor10, Roboson,Andrea
AS-HA1 "Onslaught": (3.75) Chiefwaffles, RAM.75, Lightforger, Azzuro
Shrouder Shell: (1) FallacyofUrist
More powerful, longer ranged MFTs: (1) Andres
Pillar of unmagic: (.5) RAM.5

That said, making gem powered cannons would make me happy as well, since that is the last before rifles.

[Chiefwaffles]

I really want to use that revision to make our Equalizers not useless or to improve our skirmishing capabilities though. And I also really want to be able to do super extreme long range. It may not mean much now, but it saves a revision in that and we can easily make a spell (flare) to help with spotting and more, making it much better later.
We've been revising our cannons too much. We need a new iteration in designs and we need one that works.

[evictedSaint]

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