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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 393592 times)

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2040 on: May 07, 2017, 01:02:55 am »

I could see a directed frost tower working better for that. also, I would expect the result to be "Nobody can live here, all industry and combat in the region ends." but some personal and localised heating devices could help with that. Still, a full-blown metal-mining industry is very large thing to provide heating for...
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2041 on: May 07, 2017, 06:43:10 am »

I could see a directed frost tower working better for that. also, I would expect the result to be "Nobody can live here, all industry and combat in the region ends." but some personal and localised heating devices could help with that. Still, a full-blown metal-mining industry is very large thing to provide heating for...

To paraphrase President Eden, as long as we hit them harder we win, even if we both die.

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2042 on: May 08, 2017, 01:44:27 pm »

So. In the future, we really need to work on our plant magic. Huge terrain advantages, among other things.

Spoiler: Future Designs (click to show/hide)
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2043 on: May 08, 2017, 08:27:23 pm »

Combat for 931

It does not snow in the jungle this year.

Freezing rains still pelt Arstotzkans, and a chill still permeates the air, but snow doesn't touch the ground and Moskurg soldiers survive - albeit uncomfortably.  No longer shivering at their posts they do a better job of stopping Arstotzkan raids, whereas Moskrugs new policy of firebombing sleeping soldiers is still effective.  Both sides still lose men, but Moskurg loses fewer and has a clear advantage.

A warm wind blows from the south, meeting the cool air from the north.  This causes light, warm rain to fall on the Moskurg side of the battle lines, but the truly freezing rain is still on the Arstotzkans.  The jungle quickly turns to mud everywhere and battles resume with a wet, bloody intensity.  We make limited use of our new Equalizer Anti-Magic shells; only a single HC1-E can use them, and if the shell jams then the cannon is ruined.  We manage to land one close enough to a Moskurg artillery piece that the magic powering it falters and it falls comically short of our lines, but that's about it for effect.  The barrel cooling enchantments are far more beneficial; with a cooler barrel we can fire our HC1-E's even faster.  They still don't make up for being fewer in number than Moskurg's ballistas, but they do close the gap.  The regular HC1's struggle to match range and are often doused with their disgusting, primitive fireballs, killing crew and burning down the wooden carriages.  Our Mage Hunter troops are ordered to get close during the shelling and use their specialty arrows on the ballistas [Order: 1, 3 = 1] but the jungle is too sparse for decent cover and once our elite troopers are out in front of our lines ballista bolts home in.  They're slaughtered, and it hurts the moral of our men to see them fall so easily.  It's a close battle, and we might have fought them to a stalemate and ended on the back foot, but their skirmish advantage ultimately sees our battlelines crumble and we are forced to pull back, especially with al-Mutriqa leading his Black Phantasms against our troops.  Our towers are disassembled and reassembled further back to prevent Moskurg from claiming them, but we're now constructing defenses on frozen taiga soil.  We've been pushed out of the jungle.

The Theatre Commander once again asks for more HC1-E's.  They're good guns, and the frost enchantments make them better than Moskurg's artillery, but we just can't field enough of them.  If that's not enough, then perhaps you could find some way to claim the ocean and use our ships to bombard their lines from the shore?  Any way you can find some advantage or change the nature of the battle would be welcome, because our men are now constructing barricades on our home soil.

Moskurg has gained control of jungle. If they hold it for one turn, they may harvest it for resources.


The mountains are still a frozen hell hole.  The warm desert winds howl up the sides of the mountains, but they are dissipated before they can swim through the peaks.  Moskurg makes a vain attempt to charge up the mountain sides, but our height advantage and freezing cold keep them at bay.  We may now utilize the mines deep underground, and Myark stands firmly atop the castle overlooking the Moskurg desert sands.

Our Theatre Commander is proud to report he has taken back the mountains and kept it secure.  He hopes he's done his homeland proud.  Glory to Arstotzka!

Arstotzka now controls the mountain.  They may harvest it for resources.


We are pushed back out of the plains this year.

Skirmishes are much more even; with the wide open plains we can generally see Moskurg horse grenadiers coming and scramble a defense.  Fire still hurts, but we kill more when we see them coming.  Our own men still creep into Moskurg camps and snipe away.  Over all, it's fairly even between the two of us.

The desert winds howl across the flat ground, and snow now only falls in the winter.  It's not as cold now, and though Moskurg soldiers still shiver like terrified cats they still fight and survive the night.  Across the open fields artillery reigns absolutely supreme.  Charges across the flat ground result universally in death for both side, and soon the land is marred with craters and trenches.  Wooden stakes line the land between the two sides and men hide below the ground.  It rains freezing rain non-stop on our side of the line, flooding our trenches and making our men sick.  Their artillery still outranges most of ours, so the HC1-E's are used primarily to maintain as large a distance between the two lines as possible.  The raid from last year in the nearby village hurt our food supplies, and our Dogwood mages resort to growing vegetables and grains non-stop to help feed our hungry troops, mitigating that effect.  Fire blasts and ballista bolts have a tendency to kill men who don't hug the southern wall of the trench, and after a year we're run ragged.  Another year of this and we'll be forced to retreat back north.  Arstotzka is on the back foot.

Our Theatre Commander is not happy.  This 'hiding in holes' business is for cowards, but he can't charge men to their deaths.  Longer-range artillery would let us creep south, but at this point he'd just settle for more HC1-E's.

Neither side gains ground in the Plains.


To the north, Moskurg's ships find themselves cut off from their home.  Their ships make a valiant effort to sail back south, and only a few make it.  We chase them out and sink the majority of their ships.

Arstotzka gains control in the Northern Sea.

In the western and eastern seas, our battles stall.  Our Steam Ships can hold their own, and they're just a bit faster than Moskurg's ships so they can get into favorable positions, but the range is equal between the two sides.  Once most of the Steam Ships are gone, the advantage shifts towards Moskurg.  At that point their fleet is too depleted to win the day, so battles generally end in stalemates.

Neither side gains ground in the Eastern and Western seas.



It is 932, the Design Phase.

Spoiler: State of Forenia, 932 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Arstotzkan Elite Units (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Arstotzkan Spells (click to show/hide)



Behavior Rules.  Please Read.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 08:52:08 pm by evictedSaint »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2044 on: May 08, 2017, 08:49:10 pm »

Our Theatre Commanders really like artillery. Really, upgrading artillery at this point is an extreme benefit to every theatre. So, once again...

AS-HA1 "Onslaught"
What if, thought the Project Lead earlier, We had more artillery?
With this genius idea in mind, he sprinted to his office where he gathered his subordinates and they got to work. The AS-HA1 "Onslaught" is a culmination of all our efforts so far. The HA1-E is an amazing creation. Recent developments have increased its fire rate, it can fire at Extreme Range, and it has great accuracy, is more reliable and is simply better than our HA1. The HA2 could be useful, but the incompetence of now-executed relocated mathemagicians have rendered it useless. Improvements in the steam engines of the SBP1 Fog-O-Wars have allowed for greater ease in creating

Our regained plentiful metal supply make the construction of the AS-HA1 Onslaught an easy task. High-quality metal is able to be used for every construction task and standardized construction equipment given to every craftsmen drastically reduces the time to manufacture. Ideally, these improvements should radically decrease the price of the AS-HA1 to a point where we can wheel them out en masse throughout the fields.
The range is increased via much longer barrels and further "enchantments" increasing the power of the spells used and therefore the pressure applied to the shells.

But perhaps the most important upgrade is in how its used. Our apprentices have been reduced to nothing more than glorified artillery operators. By "storing" magical energy in crystals similar to our anti-magic charms but without the magic absorption and use of our new "enchantments", mundane soldiers can now operate the artillery with ease. The energy storage crystals, or "batteries" as called by the project members, are replaceable, but they hold enough of a charge that a single apprentice can handle extreme amounts of artillery by simply charging each artillery piece when it runs out of energy.

TL;DR: +range, +cheap, +mundane use. All based on previous designs and revisions, so the design should be relatively easy to accomplish. And "cheap" is made much easier with mountain metal.



In revision, we should look towards either fixing the Anti-magic shell (Evicted, is this possible? Can we fix the Equalizer shell in an revision?), fixing the inevitable bugs with the design, or gaining an advantage in Skirmishing. Alternatively, I bet they'll be upgrading that frost tower counter of theirs this round.
Possible revisions: (not listed in any particular order)
1.) Frost tower upgrade: Counter their counter to our frost towers.
2.) Skirmish revision: Help our troops in Skirmish phase
3.) Anchored crystal
4.) Fixing bugs with the design this phase.

Quote
Designs
1 - AS-HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles

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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2045 on: May 08, 2017, 08:52:18 pm »

Our current anti-magic shells aren't working very well. Let's change that. With some new ones.

Shrouder Shell: As neat as our current anti-magic shells are, these are better. To put it simply, when they impact, they explode into a large cloud of fog. Fog that absorbs magic(such as Lucky Strike, anti-magic staff magic, and wind magic, among other things) and uses that to expand.

I'm thinking we use our revision to make the HC1-E cheaper, using our metal bonus.

The fact that the Shrouder Shell makes it hard to target foes won't matter if we use wide-area attacks. We will need to do something to make our magic work in the fog later, but not right now. These shells are meant to take their artillery out of the picture, we can use our normal shells on their formations.

Quote
Designs:

1 - Shrouder Shell: FallacyofUrist
1 - AS-HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles

« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 09:04:17 pm by FallacyofUrist »
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Light forger

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2046 on: May 08, 2017, 09:07:12 pm »

Flameshrieker Shells
So named for their distinctive noise this conical rounds designed to be fired by both the HC-1 and HC-E and, have a small infused quartz gemstone placed in the back of the round. Once exposed to enough heat(like that of our cannons firing) the gemstone is enchanted to produce a long lasting powerful jet of flame. The jet of flame help to propel the shell granting it significantly increased range. After the shell hits something the gemstone will shatter and release all of it's remaining magical energy in a single blast. This explosion, provided the shell didn't travel too far is more then able to incinerate a man wholesale if he is within a few feet of the round. As added befit the shell with also send burning hot iron fragments everywhere and causing multiple fires or igniting Moskurg's greek fire jars. The gems are made by a mage enchanting a gemstone with a prestored spell(in this cause an extremely modified fire wall spell) and then infusing it with magic roughly equal to a dozen for so casings of fireball.

Posting this again because I still think it's our best option but, don't worry I will stop after this turn. Any who we need artillery our commanders aren't asking for anti-magic stuff they are asking for better guns.

Quote
Designs:
1 - Shrouder Shell: FallacyofUrist
1 - AS-HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles
1 - Flameshrieker Shells: Lightforger
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 09:09:25 pm by Light forger »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2047 on: May 08, 2017, 09:14:55 pm »

Our commanders' suggestion aren't always the way to go. They're basically just "This is a solid avenue of improvement"; there could very well be a better way to go.
That being said, I do agree with the idea of better artillery. But better damage isn't what we need. We need cheap first and foremost. Then everything else.

Ideally we only want to be using one action on artillery. Having to spend a design for better damage + range then spending a revision on expense simply isn't viable. That revision could be much better used elsewhere. I still like the idea of Flameshrieker Shells, but they're improving an area that doesn't really need improvement instead of areas that actually do need improvement.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2048 on: May 08, 2017, 09:16:30 pm »

One thing we can do is harass the shit out of them before actual combat.

Deadly Spiders
After a long hiatus, we return to summoning swarms of insects to harass our enemies. This time instead of wasps, we chose a deadly species of spider. This particular species of spider delivers a potent venom that can be fatal if untreated, but is otherwise incredibly painful and dehabilitating. What's more, these spiders can be controlled in a similar manner to our wasps, which allow us to send them against our enemy during all phases of battle. 

I proposed a similar design a while back (it was a lot better, but I couldn't find it) Basically this will give us an advantage at all periods of battle, especially if we can get the venom to be potent enough. Who needs range? Spiders are at all ranges.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2049 on: May 08, 2017, 09:18:44 pm »

Anti-magic mosquitos.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2050 on: May 08, 2017, 09:19:42 pm »

Design: Spell-forged Steamworks
There are seveal elements to this
A basic circuit to create a geomagically perfect crystal in the shape of a mould.(mathematgic and crystal expertise)
A crystal conjured by a circuit into a pice of cloth. When empowered the circuit is encased and protected by the crystal, holding the circuit in a stasis induced by the lack of atmosphere...(circuits)
The above crystal being invoked with a basic ability to follow impulses, in this case commands to activate or absorb a circuit's power.(fire wasps, crystal expertise, this design action)
Fine adjustments to crystal summoning.(crystal expertise, mathemagics)
Layered metal to prevent all the impurities from being in the same place.(Common sense, broadswords?)
Fine temerature control.(forever frost.)
Magic storage in gems.(permanent crystals)
We create a number of circuits to produce temporary crystal moulds for the various components of our steam technology. Boilers, turbines, pipes, shafts... Which can be filled, cooled, and then an interior circuit is removed, opening space for a new layer of metal that has been cooled to a precise temperature to flow while not completely melting the outer layer. the circuits can be removed because a 'living crystal' and 'storage gem' have been iplanted into the ircuits. The living crystal is imbued into the circuits as, in effect, a part of its body, and it can move the magic around, activating the circuits to summon crystal moulds and deactivating them by transferring the magic from a circuit into the storgage gem. Given that a circuit can be made top incorporate mathemagical components, the crystal forms generated through them can be made to be perfect geomagic shapes, whihc produces perfect spheres for weakness-free boilers and perfectly identical moulds for cannon barrels and ammunition. And finally, given that the magic is transferred between a storage gem and back again, only very little magic is lost in the process, so a wiard is only required rarely to recharge the gem, while a separate circuit is put into place to cover the more precise circuitry(barring the living crystal and storage gem for control and resupply purposes) with a protective layer of crystal to prevent it from succumbing to wear-and-tear.

In effect, this produces a forge that can, with the press of a marked panel on a summoned crystal, produce or remove a perfect mould. Complete with removable layers to produce a more reliable layer-forged-metal. And powered by mundane-operable controls so that our industry can function solely based on occasional visits from academy students. It allows us to finally be rid of the problems of ammunition mismatches, the vast bulk of exploding boilers, issues with ill-fitting turbines, time and dificulty involved in hand-forging moulds that can rarely be used more than once, and all with the now plentiful metals from the newly-conquered regions.

Makes steam-cannons and steam-engines, stronger, cheaper... better!

Design: antiluck charm
Knowing that Keggers lack the skill to shoot straight, and the ancient texts suggesting the existence of fortune magic, we have concluded that the Keggers are manipulating fortune. It is also noted that it is not actually possible to make weapons which are so accurate at such range with such projectiles.

 Concluding that there is a magical means of manipulating luck, we have poured over our antimagic research and every mathemagical analysis that we have ever done with a certainty that there is a fortune component to magic and that it must be found. After spending months with massive prototype antimagic charms modified and focused, aiming exclusively at specific magical elements we have finally distilled the 'luck' aspect to magic. A thorough analysis leads us to believe that magical fortune is reciprocal. That is, it is shared by all entities influence by it. A gambler who wins a coin toss and their opponent who loses are both subject to the same 'luck' event, one receiving fortune and the other misfortune as parts of a single instance of fortune. Likewise, a wholly beneficial act, such as fair weather, Is distributed amongst all people who wanted a picnic, and opposed to everyone who prefers moody weather... Thus, it seems impossible to benefit from good fortune at the expense of another unless they are also subject to ill fortune.

We do not know anything about actually controlling it in any conventional sense, but we have specialised versions of our antimagic charms that instead of draining magic they only drain fortune. 'Luck', be it good or ill, becomes impossible within the area, which has been greatly increased over the now-old charms of before, and can protect an entire cannon and its crew. While we have concerns as to what this will do to morale, as exceptional successes often support the mood, it has become clear that the common Kegger is just too lucky...
Pillar of unmagic
By focusing all of our mathemagical and trigothaumical developments, along with our experience of the forever frost towers, we construct a great tower with an intricate core of quartz, with dimond studding on key locations allowing exposed magical pathways which permit fine control of the effect. This is, in essence, a giant antimagic charm, but capable of detailed attunement. It will, with careful handling and a large amount of time spent measuring its effects and trial-and-erroring precisely what is needed, be able to select a single spell and absorb all instances of it within a single theatre of battle.

Quote
1 AS-HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447733#msg7447733
1 Shrouder Shell: FallacyofUrist http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447735#msg7447735
1 Flameshrieker Shells: Lightforger http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447746#msg7447746
0 Deadly Spiders:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447753#msg7447753
0 Anti-magic mosquitos:
4 Spell-forged Steamworks: RAM4 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
2 antiluck charm: RAM2 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
3 Pillar of unmagic: RAM3 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 09:34:22 pm by RAM »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2051 on: May 08, 2017, 09:33:37 pm »

Future Revision: Revealing Mist
They have an advantage in skirmishes with our men.
We want to in the future be able to spot for our artillery.

Revealing mist is a variant (not a replacement) for Obscuring Mist. The reason for it being a revision is simple: All we need to do is "mark" the enemy. The mist is, in a way, embedded with an element similar to that of our anti-magic charms. Yet this aspect of Revealing Mist is so tiny that it's just attracted to sources of magic. The mist will then be attracted towards magical presences. One may think that this would only be useful in identifying enemy mages, and that person would be wrong and needs to be failed out of the Academy. See, every living being has a magical "spark" to them. Mages just have a much bigger one. So the mist will tend to gravitate towards them more, but in the end all humans are marked with the tell-tale sign of a vaguely human-shaped obvious cloud of mist.
Of course, for the time being, Revealing Mist does not differentiate between Moskurgian and Arstotzkan life, but it's easy for magic-users to manipulate the spell to avoid casting it over our own troop positions.

TL;DR: Make a variant of our mist where it's attracted to humans and will clump around them.

It's a revision, will help greatly during Skirmish, and will help our anti-mage units. Also has potential for the future when it comes to developing super-extreme range, I think.


Future upgrades to this:
-Disrupt: Marked people will become soaking wet, will find it hard to move, and will have obscured vision due to the mist clouding around them. Logically, this should be a part of Revealing Mist but I took it out to keep it simple and fitting for a Revision.
-IFF: Make it differentiate between us and them.
-Long-range: Make some kind of "beacon"/"flare" thing



Future Design/Revision(?): Flare
This is simple. A fireball spell modified to travel far into the sky and become extremely bright and illuminating. The fireball can also be configured to appear as a fun wide array of different colors.
The advantages are extremely simple.
Communication - Color coding can allow squadrons to communicate. Charge, attack, reinforcement, etc.
Fighting @ Night - The flare will illuminate the ground below it, giving us a light advantage over them.
Artillery Spotting - A color can be designated as an artillery flare; wizards can shoot the flare over an enemy target and our artillery can easily find and annihilate the target.

I actually really like this one. If it could fit as a revision, it may be the best option.



EDIT: I 100% think Flare should be next round's design (maybe with some extra features to make it worth a design action) with longer-range artillery this action. We'd have super-extreme range artillery! Imagine the possibilities!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 09:39:07 pm by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2052 on: May 08, 2017, 11:05:49 pm »

Okay, first of.

None of that multiple voting nonsense. Secondly, there was an agreement to limit clutter by allowing no more than 2 designs per person.

In any case, it seems like more artillery is the way to go. It will allow us to make our ships cheaper, and dominate Moskurg on land.

Quote
2 AS-HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles, 10ebbor10 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447733#msg7447733
1 Shrouder Shell: FallacyofUrist http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447735#msg7447735
1 Flameshrieker Shells: Lightforger http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447746#msg7447746
0 Deadly Spiders:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447753#msg7447753:
1 Spell-forged Steamworks: RAM http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
1 Pillar of unmagic: RAM http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 11:07:28 pm by 10ebbor10 »
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2053 on: May 08, 2017, 11:52:34 pm »

Crystal Pyramid Bunker: A square pyramid made up of four crystal walls, large enough to hold a cannon and crew.  They are anchored at the four corners by gems to keep it stable and strong.  The walls can be instantly unsummoned and resummoned by storing the energy inside the gems, this allows the cannons to fire with minimum exposure time.  The spell is continuously channeled with the crystal concentrated on being tough to damage, rather then long lasting.

Fire Ball Staff: This staff contains an incomplete engraving that draws magic from a magic charged gem and fires a fireball out of the tip.  The engraving can be completed by inserting a "fire" key containing the missing part.  The gem can be removed and replaced to allow a new fireball to be thrown.  The staff is designed to be usable by non mages, with the gems recharged between combat by apprentices.

I don't like the spell forged steamworks because it seems too ambitious.  Maybe we should look into crystal and spell assistance in forging before making a competently automated factory?

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2054 on: May 09, 2017, 12:25:42 am »

Okay, first of.

None of that multiple voting nonsense. Secondly, there was an agreement to limit clutter by allowing no more than 2 designs per person.

In any case, it seems like more artillery is the way to go. It will allow us to make our ships cheaper, and dominate Moskurg on land.

Quote
2 AS-HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles, 10ebbor10 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447733#msg7447733
1 Shrouder Shell: FallacyofUrist http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447735#msg7447735
1 Flameshrieker Shells: Lightforger http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447746#msg7447746
0 Deadly Spiders:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447753#msg7447753:
1 Spell-forged Steamworks: RAM http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
1 Pillar of unmagic: RAM http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
First: It is not nonsense, I explained the rationale behind it a while back, and even after your edits I literally still had multiple votes so I have no idea what the rules are supposed to be now... I like 4,3,2 weighted voting, so I am using it. I also like proposals not being voted for by their submitters, but that is less of an issue with a 4,3,2 system and if people are inconsistent with it then it does skew the results, so I gotta be willing to vote my own stuff if I wanna be competitive. Also I am being blatantly rebellious because the voting restrictions have been thrown away and now it is a free-for-all and nobody said I couldn't vote this way... And yes, I realise that voting this way is a breach of common sense, but my own common sense is some distance from where we currently are and this could actually work so, meh...

Second: There was no such agreement. There were requests but it was never unanimous and there was very little reasoning given to justify it. A few people expressed a desire for it and I tried to comply, this time I decided not to. There is definitely insufficient consensus to go editing other people's votes over it. I have yet to see an instance where clutter of varying proposals has been an issue. Clutter of very similar proposals does have some issues with it however. Varying proposals people just don't vote for what they don't want. Similar stuff tends to dilute the votes of those who like one idea while another might remain concentrated and win even though it has less overall support, but we are voting as much as we like now so even that isn't much of a thing...

 For a brief, glorious while people were generally not voting for their own stuff and voting only for one idea has been pretty consistent for the whole thing. Now the voting is all over the place, with people editing votes pretty much at random, and the whole thing is chaos and ridicule. If you want to fight for order, then you gotta have consice rules and a consensus. My proposed rules:
Each turn everyone gets three votes, one worth 4 points, one worth 3 pints, one worth 2 points, only one such vote can be granted to any one proposal.
There will be no voting for 6 hours after an update.
Each player may make two free proposals and may sacrifice one of their votes to increase this limit by the value equal to the points that they kost.
A requiest can be made to fuse similar proposals, in which case the replacement proposal can be added to a separate sections of the voting and can be voted upon, these votes will not be counted unless all submitters of the replaced proposals agree to their proposal being replaced. If such agreement is forthcoming, then all votes of the replaced proposals will be added to the new proposal. If this results in multiple votes from a single party, then the lower-valued votes from that party will be removed and placed in a separate section to clarify that the vote is no longer cast.

4,3,2 get peopel what they need, a way to distinguish one proposal from another but stiull support all their most favourite picks. It discourages ties by being varied...
Voting too soon tends to lead to everyone piling on the first proposals and not bothering. People should hang back a bit for ideas to gather before the voting starts so that the votes don't tend to pile up on the fast proposals and leave people nervous about voting on a late idea that doesn't look as though it has a chance to win...
I guess this could maybe be a problem... It hasn't happened yet that I can see, but if there were, like, 20 proposals then something might be awkward. maybe? Not really seeing it but this could be a thing...
Well, yes, it is complicated and awkward, but it is a formal procedure to follow in the awkward event that someone thinks that two ideas are too similar. Having something formal should hopefully stop fights breaking out and it is probably ttoo unwieldy to use so it probably doesn't matter anyway, but could, theoretically, get a good outcome where two people's ideas are merged andthey get to keep all the votes...

I agree on the artillery, although something about skirmishes really ought to be done, and we need a good plant design that we can revise... I am inclined to revise the boats too, maybe we can just raise the sides to reduce the risk of flooding. It is far from perfect, but would get the worst of the issues off, except that their fire burns our wood... Ugh, so many designs that I am holding back on...

Quote
Designs!
2 AS-HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles, 10ebbor10 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447733#msg7447733
1 Shrouder Shell: FallacyofUrist http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447735#msg7447735
1 Flameshrieker Shells: Lightforger http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447746#msg7447746
0 Deadly Spiders:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447753#msg7447753
0 Anti-magic mosquitos:
4 Spell-forged Steamworks: RAM4 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
2 antiluck charm: RAM2 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
3 Pillar of unmagic: RAM3 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
0 Crystal Pyramid Bunker:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447865#msg7447865
0 Fire Ball Staff:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447865#msg7447865

Revisions!
0 Revealing Mist:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447772#msg7447772
0 Flare:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447772#msg7447772

Orders!
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
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