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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 393374 times)

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2025 on: May 06, 2017, 11:07:04 am »


Quote
Revisions :
1 - Standardized HC1-E Manufacturing (Cheaper HC1-E's): Chiefwaffles
1 - (Andres)Cheaper Frost Towers: Andres
0 - (Roboson)Reverse fireball:
3 - (10ebbor10)Magic Condensor : 10ebbor10, Andrea, Stabby
0 - (RAM)Summon water:
0 - (RAM)Dogwizard Staves:
0 - (RAM)College of mathemagical manipulation, methods, and misuse:
Orders :
3 - Operation Exhaustion : 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles, Stabby

You know we should had ignored anti-magic shells and made magic-seeking shells instead. That would have equalized the playing field.

that... is actually a good idea.

So I'm going to go ahead and post this now. It probably won't get enough support to win out for this round, but perhaps in the future. Since we don't seem to care about the biggest issue (their lucky strike), but do care about firepower. So I'm going to to post something that may give us a similar advantage.

Anti-Invocation Directional System
Spoiler: Visual Aid (click to show/hide)

The Anti-Invocation Directional System (AIDs for short) is our nation's response to lucky strike. Utilizing our anti-magic crystal technology, we've designed a type of anti-magic homing system. The system is contained with a modified rifled artillery shell. Each AIDs Shell has several antimagic charms around the diameter surrounded by a reinforced tube. These tubes are held within the shell until the shell begins its descent, which forces them to deploy. The tubes are designed to be aerodynamic, almost like small wings, so as to not impede the flight of the shell, but instead, guide it. The antimagic crystals held within give off small amounts of magic energy, which then forces the shell to turn slightly. This occurs until all the crystals are giving off the same amount of energy, which only occurs when the shell is perfectly on-target.


The magic seeking shell design I posted a while back. Its frighteningly simple as it relies on math more than it does on magic. Its also not a whole lot different than our anti-magic shells.

Edit: Its basically a rowboat. If you paddle properly on the right, you turn left (and vice versa). However, if you paddle in reverse on the right, you turn right. This system operates like that. By putting a tiny bit of reverse thrust on one side, you can turn a moving object by a few degrees without effecting velocity by a noticeable amount.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 12:50:54 pm by Roboson »
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RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2026 on: May 06, 2017, 04:02:51 pm »

I am still not entirely sure how they would work. The targeting has a vertical component and the projectile has an arc. If we include a vertical component onto anything that cannot either predict the arc or completely keep the projectile from arcing, at least temporarily, then it will be pulled into a direct course that it cannot maintain and will not hit anything. If it doesn't have a vertical component, then best-case it acts as a magic detector that reveals magic from a careful observation of its flight-path(making it a tracer round might be good...) and removes the horizontal element from aiming at enemy magic(I suspect that the vertical component is more of a problem than the horizontal...). Worst-case it constantly gets pulled off course by wizards and fractal butterflies that are between it and anything that it is likely to land on and thus tends to be too far off course by the time it starts homing in on a legitimate target. And, of course, all antimagic works the same way, so our antimagic cannot detect magic inside of their antimagic, so they have a defence against it, albeit one that requires activation and inhibits their own operations...
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Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2027 on: May 06, 2017, 05:18:44 pm »

Hmmm, that's a good point. The vertical aspect is rather unsolvable with some sort of thruster. Side to side would work fine, but without some sort of lift it won't help with that aspect. Unless the crystals give off enough energy to aid with that. Also because it's rifled the entire thing will be spinning, which means it will be constantly be undulating as far as crystal thrust output, but that won't really make a difference.

As for the magic interference, it's true that fireballs may draw it off course, but as long as their mages keep casting their wind spell to protect against out longbows, it should work. Their antimagic seems to not stop their spells, but does prevent our casting. So that won't be an issue.
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2028 on: May 06, 2017, 06:20:08 pm »

Revision: Magical Condensor: [5+1]

We get the details of the condensing system worked out.

It certainly took some complicated spellwork; the spell needs both the input of the outside temperature, the temperature of the metal it's engraved in, and the target temperature.  It needed a rather complex formula to govern the intensity of the spell based on these inputs and a number of safeties to prevent it from cracking or freezing parts of the machine it shouldn't. 

The result is a more efficient steam engine.  This increases the devices reliability because the pipes no longer need to dip into the ocean, and the weight by a small degree due to the smaller amount of metal components required.  The colder steam creates a low-pressure area in the condensor that draws more steam in, so the engine doesn't have to actively push the fluid through and more energy can be spent driving the turbine.

The net gain from all this is our SPB's will now outpace Moskurg ships by a non-negligable amount, even though they still match us for range.  As a bonus, we've also applied this spell inscription to our HC1-E's, allowing them to cool off quicker and fire at an increased rate.  Because steam needs to exit the cannon to get the most velocity for the shot, we can't use this to reclaim the steam for the cannon, however.

The inscription requires the complex spellwork to be engraved into the metal by hand in an intensive, length process that only skilled metalsmiths are able to pull off.  The engraving is then filled in with gold, allowing the magic to be held within.

Curiously, we discover by accident that a completed circle, or "circuit", allows the spell enchantment to remain on the weapon indefinitely.  Breaking this circuit causes the magic to dissipate.

The enchantment is not immune to anti-magic effects. Very Expensive
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 06:22:49 pm by evictedSaint »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2029 on: May 06, 2017, 06:27:23 pm »

Awesome. Bit less weight, more reliable, faster, and increased rate of fire for the HC1-E's.
Furthermore, we have a foothold in enchantments and magical circuits, which should be useful for some pretty cool designs in the future.

I still would have preferred a bigger focus on weight reduction, but I seriously cannot complain at all with how this turned out.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2030 on: May 06, 2017, 06:45:30 pm »

Where was this 6 when we were trying to make the new shells?

Anyway, the result is excellent. I suggest next time to experiment with copper instead of gold for the circuit and to replace the fireball spell with an inscribed one as well, so that we don't need mages to man the cannons.

which leads the way to steam rifles for our army! we have a frost spell to keep it cool so the soldier doesn't burn his back with the boiler. we have gun experience. And we no longer have the need to have a mage do the casting. All we need to do to turn our cannons into rifles is make everything smaller! ( oh, and inscribe a summon water spell, of course. can't have a water cart after each soldier)

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2031 on: May 06, 2017, 07:51:30 pm »

Wouldn't rifles still need a wizard to invoke a fireball? We could have permanent firewalls and condensers for steam-pressure, but they would be lower-powered without that fireball kick... AND they can still antimagic it. Could still be good though, but I would be more inclined to do something like a turret to protect our campsites.

How about this for a design: Gem-fuelled flame-wand. We revised our notes from reverse-engineering fireballs from our wand and inverted the process to create a wand of our own. We refined the pattern as much as possible using mathemagical know-how and magic-materials, such as circuits, gem-sustained crystals, and the work on the forever frost tower's fixed magical workings. We then added a gem that can store magic for prolonged periods of time to supply the wand with power. The difficult part is to refine the design to the point at which the wand can be operated by a mundane soldier. To do this we are reviewing the idea of living magic by reviewing the method by which firewasps are alive. There would be a second gem hosting a summoned magical entity that can manipulate the magic through the wand's spell-work. It would be conditioned to be loyal, and most captures would occur due to enemy antimagic which would likely kill the magical entity rendering the wand non0functional. The wand would recognise the person wielding it and could potentially form a friendship with them, so transferring these might be difficult, but it would prevent misfiring, as many users are likely to be uttering the command word simultaneously. Fortunately, we unearthed a powerful and swift command word from the noted of the original excavation: "pew". We are aiming for low-costs, so will be starting with cheaper materials and reducing the power of the spell as needed rather than looking into more powerful options that higher-grade materials might offer. Finally, we are looking into a design that more easily lines-up with the wielder's vision and is less-likely to fall from their grasp, the test subjects, for reasons we have been completely unable to extrapolate, have begun referring to these new wands as "Sci-fi Pistols"...
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Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2032 on: May 06, 2017, 09:52:03 pm »

Wouldn't rifles still need a wizard to invoke a fireball?


Curiously, we discover by accident that a completed circle, or "circuit", allows the spell enchantment to remain on the weapon indefinitely.  Breaking this circuit causes the magic to dissipate.

The enchantment is not immune to anti-magic effects. Very Expensive

We've stumbled upon a golden discovery here. If we can apply this to fireball/wall, we have an endless energy source for everything.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2033 on: May 06, 2017, 09:57:29 pm »

Flaming shells.
Use our magic circuits (which is 100% what Arstotzkan "enchantments" are) to give our shells the destructive power of fireballs.

Autocannons. (Name mildly misleading) or "HC1-A". Or "HC3".
Cannons with the internal spells automated, making it easy for any soldier to activate it. This frees up our apprentices for other things, potentially makes cannons cheaper??, and is a step towards fully automation for cannons.

@RAM: I really think you're putting too much on the "spark of life" thing. Giving it to inanimate objects is hard enough, but making it intelligent? That'd be extraordinarly difficult. We should start small with that stuff.


Anywhoo, another plan!
1.) Fix Anti-magic shells (by design, with some improvements to the original design. This should be easy to do since having a failed design under our belt will no doubt be worth a ton when it comes to designing a new, fixed version. Also enchantment/magic circuits should help here.)
2a.) Crystal Armor (Revision. This should go first if on our ships - we can outfit our ships with Crystal plating that won't disappear easily due to the range of our naval battles. If this goes after anchored crystal then we can look into Crystal plating for our troops, our cannons, etc...)
2b.) Anchored Crystal (I'd really like to use our crystal weapons again, and this would make crystal plating much more viable at land. Should be more easier with the magic circuit stuff?)
3.) Autocannons + improvements to expense and range.


I think we need a better name for enchantment magic circuits. Like we did with mathemagics. Any ideas?
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2034 on: May 06, 2017, 10:29:32 pm »

Arithmagic? Arithmetic
Enchribing? Inscribing

I suppose that making a best-friend gun would be a bit much, but rote-teaching the thing to cast a spell might work.

And I do not see that we can make spells cast with circuits, not yet. They sustain an enchantment, not cause it to repeat on command.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2035 on: May 06, 2017, 10:47:45 pm »

About the name: I dunno. Something to do with electricity since that's the closest thing. I want to use this stuff for very primitive computers in the far future.
About the other circuit stuff: Hence why it would be something we do. It's easy enough that it can be done as a smaller part of a bigger design.

Anyways. An alternative design that uses simpler techniques that we already know to make something vaguely resembling a "gun". Hell, we could probably try designing this next design phase if we get good rolls and are okay with using a revision. I feel like Evicted would hate us for trying to make guns in the year 931, though.
Future Design: AS-HRW1 "Firerod"
Magic is something that only our magic users, and that's not okay. Imagine the potential if every Arstotzkan could wield magic. This project promises to provide that, or at least the beginnings.
At its core, the Firerod is our own wand of fire. The device is simple - a small chamber vaguely similar to our HC series that'd fit in the hands of a human is equipped with a handle. A gem of similar construct (but less quality for expense reasons) to our anti-magic charm is then inserted into a designated slot in the device, covering the barrel. This gem is, at creation, charged with a large amount of magical energy. The gem is completely inert to external influences of magic, like the anti-magic charm, though some mathemagicians have theorized that if the gems were given an absorbing quality similar to our charms, they could regenerate on the field. But that's a topic to address at a much later date.
A magic circuit created that stretches from the handle to where the gem slot is provides the triggering mechanism. Pressure applied to the part of the circuit on the handle is turned into extremely minute amounts of magical energy that's just enough to "instruct" the gem to release its energy in the form of a fireball spell, propelling the fireball out of the barrel and towards the Firerod's target. The gem is depleted and the soldier holding the firerod takes out the depleted gem and inserts a charged one.
Each soldier also carries around ten of these small gems on their person. They're instructed to keep depleted gems, as recharging gems is easier than manufacturing, and our Mages and Apprentices on the field can easily recharge the gems themselves.

The result is a devastating weapon - no longer will fireballs be restricted to our mages. Regular soldiers can use them on the field with almost no training and our mages can focus on other tasks.


AS-Hybrid Ranged Weapon 1 "Firerod"


Oh yeah. Evicted, does the enchantment/circuit invented in the latest revision allow for our steam engines to be left alone, once started, by apprentices and mages? I'm assuming that it makes maintenance easier but the whole thing isn't based off of the circuit yet.
So, on that note, unless Evicted says that yes it does make the steam engines run without supervision...
Future Revision: Autonomous Steam Engines
Our Steam Engines currently require a mage or apprentice to run them. This isn't acceptable! Our mathemagicians tell us that our battle effectiveness rating could be drastically increased if these mages actually participated in the naval battles instead of toiling away in the steam rooms!
So, using the knowledge gained from the magic circuits already present in steam engines, we automate the whole process. The magic circuit will keep the spells in the steam engine running indefinitely once a mage starts it. This allows a ship's  mage to only be required to work on the engine when starting it, and for the rest of the ship's voyage the mage can focus on helping our forces in battle.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2036 on: May 06, 2017, 11:22:49 pm »

http://imgur.com/a/c82si
I did a thing of the gun I proposed, sort of, earlier. would like to get the control gem out as progress towards wilful magic and a method of mundane-operated magic.

And I am just saying this to get it out of the way in advance. I dislike the acronyms. I have suffered under many acronyms in my time and feel they are resorted to too casually. The A.S. is only useful to EvictedSaint. The H.R.W. seems difficult to keep track of. Should a designation-line start with "hybrid" and do we really need to mention that it is a weapon? I am probably missing some great reference that makes H.R.W. awesome, but I would feel more comfortable with something like mundane caster of fire(M.C.F.) so we can clearly see the difference between mundane-operated, wizard-operated, self-operated... Casters(rays), hurlers(arcs), sprayers(flamethrower), pokers... And then fire, cold, acid, lust, lightning, antimagic, crystal... could all be elements...
Not that I wish do dispute the use of acronyms, I am just finding it a little difficult to recall what each proposal does since the acronyms arrived. Wanted to get an argument out on the topic rather than let it keep mildly irritating me forever.

Self Casting Implement - Field incarnation Hand Cannon(Sci-fi hand cannon).
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 11:47:38 pm by RAM »
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
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Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2037 on: May 06, 2017, 11:32:12 pm »

Where are we on the whole, freeze the world plan? Because it seems to me that we're much closer to that than we are to flat out winning the war.

What we need for Ice Age Victory:
1) giant crystal domes (1 design, 2-3 revisions)
2) Sustained fireball heat (1 revision)
3) magic crops (1-2 revisions)
4) Better Frost towers (1 design, 1-2 revisions)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 11:34:54 pm by Roboson »
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2038 on: May 06, 2017, 11:54:13 pm »

Where are we on the whole, freeze the world plan? Because it seems to me that we're much closer to that than we are to flat out winning the war.

What we need for Ice Age Victory:
1) giant crystal domes (1 design, 2-3 revisions)
2) Sustained fireball heat (1 revision)
3) magic crops (1-2 revisions)
4) Better Frost towers (1 design, 1-2 revisions)

5) heated armor suits for our soldiers so we can defend against them as they try and stop us.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2039 on: May 07, 2017, 12:59:06 am »

The AS is just to make it cool. The non-acronym name is there for people who don't want to use the acronyms.
I (obviously) personally like it. It gives a slightly modern twinge to our magitech designs.

Also.

Future Design: Mega Tower of Frost (Name Pending)
The first part of this design is simple. Access the technologies and techniques used to decrease the cost and skill required to operate the small frost towers.
Next: Use this knowledge to scale up the frost tower. It shall be built as a magnificent monument in the center of Arstotzka.
Finally: Scale up the tower to be able to reach as far as possible. Especially Moskurg towns. Leave a relatively small area around the tower untouched so we don't freeze over our citizens.

Moskurg will feel true coldness. This will reduce their will to fight. As the citizens see their families freeze and their food sources fail, they wonder why Moskurg truly bothers to fight. Moskurgians that are moving supplies will be forced to operate during the day to prevent frostbite. Sources of water will freeze over, soldiers moving to the battlefield will die from overexposure.
Arstotzka will bring an ice age to this continent, and make it our home.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!
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