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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 393164 times)

andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1590 on: April 30, 2017, 06:15:32 pm »

you messed up somewhere. You added a vote to fireballs, but put your name next to antifreeze, replicing light forger.

You said we vote for two.

keep in mind you can vote for 2, since we have 2 revisions.

Indeed. But what I mean, you changed the number next to a revision, but added a name to another without changing the number on that. And in fact you deleted the name of another person.
Could you clarify which designs are you voting for, in plain text?

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1591 on: April 30, 2017, 06:16:48 pm »

Design: Sacrificial Conjuration:
Spoiler: super bomb (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 06:28:06 pm by RAM »
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

stabbymcstabstab

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1592 on: April 30, 2017, 06:19:29 pm »


Quote
Designs
3 - Chain Artillery: Chiefwaffles, Ebbor, Stabby
2 - MK1 Hybrid Cannon Increased Range: Chiefwaffles
3- Long-range Fireballs: Ebbor, Andrea, tyrant,
4- Rifled Barrels: Andrea, Light Forger, Roboson, stabby
0 - MK1 Hybrid Cannon Increased Accuracy
1 - Crystal Plates Lught Forger
1- MK2.1- Antifreeze, Roboson


Edit;I'm not get new post warnings for some reason.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 06:21:44 pm by stabbymcstabstab »
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Long Live Arst- United Forenia!
"Wanna be a better liberal? Go get shot in the fuckin' face."
Contemplate why we have a sociopathic necrophiliac RAPIST sadomasochist bipolar monster in our ranks, also find some cheese.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1593 on: April 30, 2017, 06:24:18 pm »

I guess I'll take out my chain artillery vote and put just one in Rifled Barrels. It's risky, but whatever. I still think we should do increased range for the cannon. Once we make it available to use for mundane crews, that means an extreme-ranged non-magic form of artillery.
Also:
Fireballs + 6 on range = Long-range; Matching the range of ballistae and our existing artillery.
Cannon + 6 on range = Extreme-range; Becoming the farthest-ranging weapon for both sides. We'd be able to out-shoot literally anything they have.

Though we may not need it if Rifled Barrels rolls well, so we'll see.

I'm keeping my vote for Increased Range on the cannon to keep it somewhat relevant. I doubt it's going to cause confusion at 1 vote total.
Quote
2 - Chain Artillery: Ebbor, Stabby
1 - MK1 Hybrid Cannon Increased Range: Chiefwaffles
3- Long-range Fireballs: Ebbor, Andrea, tyrant,
5 - Rifled Barrels: Andrea, Light Forger, Roboson, stabby, Chiefwaffles
0 - MK1 Hybrid Cannon Increased Accuracy
1 - Crystal Plates Lught Forger
1- MK2.1- Antifreeze, Roboson
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1594 on: April 30, 2017, 06:38:13 pm »

revision: antiluck charms
Find the magical signature for luck and absorb it. The wearer has neither good nor bad fortune. Based upon the relics that we found from the original archaeological site that suggested fortune magic existed and that the accursed keggers are obviously operating according to the "luck not skill" school of military practice...

Still, this assumes that they are using luck. They could have derived skill from their heroism wand. although I doubt that skill could explain quite that much accuracy.

It also assumes that luck is always reciprocal. Shooting someone through the eye-slit is lucky, being shot through the eye-slit is unlucky.

Also also, antimagic charms are pricey, so this wouldn't affect their general good fortune, just their 'this shot is going to hit a commander or wizard' luck because commanders and wizard can't be unlucky enough to be the only thing in a large field to be hit. It may also help against lightning strikes which are notoriously fortune-based

What has happened is that the Jungle cover was never an apocalyptic -this will loose us the terrain- problem. It was a minor problem that was overstated, and failing to adress that has shown that it was just that, a minor problem.
I am not so much concerned with losing the jungle as a region, but rather losing it as a resource.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 06:54:50 pm by RAM »
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1595 on: April 30, 2017, 06:59:13 pm »

Returned my vote to fixing the MK2. Which I think has best overall results. It fixes the jamming/temperature issue, and it allows us to work on the magic steam recycler. That magitech is going to be vital for when we return to steam engines. Rifle barrels are nice and all, but they don't mean diddly if the cannon jams on the third shot. I'd take reliability over improved accuracy anyday. Although, with two revisions we may get both  :P

Quote
2 - Chain Artillery: Ebbor, Stabby
1 - MK1 Hybrid Cannon Increased Range: Chiefwaffles
3- Long-range Fireballs: Ebbor, Andrea, tyrant,
4 - Rifled Barrels: Andrea, Light Forger, stabby, Chiefwaffles
0 - MK1 Hybrid Cannon Increased Accuracy
1 - Crystal Plates Lught Forger
1- MK2.1- Antifreeze, Roboson
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1596 on: April 30, 2017, 07:11:13 pm »

I'd assume the rifling impacts both the MK1 and MK2?
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1597 on: April 30, 2017, 07:19:10 pm »

Revision: Rifling [1]

It takes a bit of doing, but the math doesn't lie.  If we made our ammunition spin during flight it will dramatically improve the weapons accuracy.

In fact, it does exactly what we want it to.  We produce a working prototype with several clock-wise spiralling grooves on the inside.  These grooves grab hold of the cannon ball as it exits the cannon and force it to rotate.  This rotation improves the stability, letting us hit the same location with a tighter grouping - the spread is about halved at maximum range, hitting reliably in the same 15-20 meter area if the cannon is re-aimed each time.

The problem is that this rifling requires a level of precision beyond anything we've ever tried before.  Each cannon must be hand-chiseled carefully over a long period of time; a task made extraordinarily difficult by the small bore size.  Casting results in far too many defects in the delicate rifling despite our best efforts.  We can still make them, but only enough to outfit each theatre with 2 or 3.  Very Expensive.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 07:27:27 pm by evictedSaint »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1598 on: April 30, 2017, 07:26:54 pm »

...of course.
This round has not been kind to the cannon. And so much for improved range, which would have helped the most by far. At least we can be glad this only increased expense.
Evicted: Does this affect both the MK1 and MK2, or does it only affect one of them?

Also, let's resubmit any revisions this time to keep clutter down. Assuming this revision applies to both versions...
Revision: Cheaper Cannons
Make both versions of the hybrid cannons cheaper to use by designing a standardized manufacturing process for the cannons.


Quote
Designs
1 - Cheaper Cannons: Chiefwaffles
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1599 on: April 30, 2017, 07:28:41 pm »

Evicted: Does this affect both the MK1 and MK2, or does it only affect one of them?

It will be applied to both.  The Mk1 is still Expensive, but the Mk1-r variant will be Very Expensive.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1600 on: April 30, 2017, 07:30:31 pm »

Wait, so we can deploy both the Mk1 and the Mk1-r at the same time?
If that's the case, then I think we should just go for improved range instead of cheapness.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1601 on: April 30, 2017, 07:31:23 pm »

Revision 2. I'm reproposing fixing the steam return on the cannon. And change its name from Antifreeze to CSR, with Caesar as a codename (because codenames are cool).

To reiterate, temperature control and lack of steam recycling. These are the two things that are causing our cannons and our engines to fail (especially at sea). If we can fix these (which this does) then we're golden. This revision can be applied to the Mk1, Mk2, and MkR as well as steam engines.

Cooling Steam Recycler (CSR), aka Caesar.

Upon looking at at the design for the MK2, our engineers realized how silly the design was. It employed a freezing spell directly on the cannon barrel and implements a mundane steam recycler. This was entirely backwards. The CSR system solves the temperature issue altogether by moving a weaker version of the freezing spell to the condenser (and not on the barrel) and then having the return pipe coil around the cannon barrel. The temperature difference of the steam condenser allows it to collect much more steam and makes it quite cold, but not quite freezing. The coiled return pipe wrapped around the hottest parts of the barrel cools the cannon after each firing as very cold condensed water is captured by the condenser and returned to the reservoir.

Ninja'd by Chiefwaffles

Assuming this revision applies to both versions...
Revision: Cheaper Cannons
Make both versions of the hybrid cannons cheaper to use by designing a standardized manufacturing process for the cannons.

We need more reliable cannons, not cheaper ones. Our cannons are overheating and need temperature control. It would be better to fix our cannons than to mass produce them with the flaws they have.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1602 on: April 30, 2017, 07:40:34 pm »

We don't need more reliable cannons.
I'm changing my vote. (I assumed before that the MK1 itself was Very Expensive, but now I think we should just revisit the MK1/2-r later and cheapen it, but for now let's use the regular variant)

Also, I'm going for a more Arstotzkian naming scheme in my future magitech revision/designs. I think the cannon warrants it now.


Revision: HC1/2-A (Longer-range Cannons)
Improvements to the barrels and projectiles allow for even greater range in the MK1 hybrid cannons. With this, we can bombard enemies from afar. Our ships will outrange theirs, our artillery will be able to fire on the enemy without any risk of counterfire. With this revision, the resulting version of the Hybrid Cannon MK1 will be called the HC1-A for "Hybrid Cannon MK1 - Artillery" and the MK2 will be called "HC2-A" for self-explanatory purposes. The current "-r" variants will become the "HCx-AR".


Think about it. This gives us a huge advantage.
1.) It effectively counters lucky strike on artillery for the time being. If their arrows and ballistae can't reach our artillery, then we don't need to worry about lucky strike.
2.) It will give us an advantage at sea - our ships will outrange theirs, giving us an advantage similar to the one that they had which let them beat us at sea. Reminder that we were told we will lose again at sea without any improvements in that regard.
3.) Long-range fireballs just bring them to par with existing artillery on both sides. This one is groundbreaking stuff.

So:
Quote
Designs
1 - HC1/2-A (Longer-range cannons): Chiefwaffles
1 - CSR (Cooling Steam Recycler): Roboson
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1603 on: April 30, 2017, 08:06:36 pm »

We don't need more reliable cannons.

But actually we really do.

Combat for 928

 It doesn't help that our cannons explode with alarming frequency.  Even when they don't, a misfire will result in the cannon jamming and being essentially useless for the battle.

It doesn't matter if our cannon can outrange them if it can't even fire. They jam and explode frequently, so a high rate of fire, good accuracy and great range only matter for a few shots. If we're going to compete with their lucky strike ballistas we need to be raining artillery on them, not shooting one volley and then losing our cannons to self-destruction.

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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1604 on: April 30, 2017, 08:11:32 pm »

"It doesn't help."
It's an issue, but there are far more important things at stake.

"A few shots" is an extreme overstatement. Note how much our cannons are helping currently - even with the reliability issues, they evened the advantage Moskurg had with their ballistae.
Being able to fire a bit more would help, but the cannons would still be target to lucky shot ballistae strikes.
It also won't help that much on sea.

But with range, again, it's a groundbreaking improvement that Moskurg can't fight with yet. When our ships outrange theirs, it doesn't matter if ours break occasionally when we don't have to worry about counterattacks. Same for at land. When their ballistae and archers can't even reach our artillery at all, Lucky Strike becomes literally nonexistent for them.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!
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