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[andrea]

We have a bad lack of expensive equipment/spells. most things there are countered, not used yet, wouldn't make sense to expend them away. Only thing left is the longship, the firewall, maybe the academy.

However, to your list you should add horses. We did this in the past, we can do it again

edit: your argument is good, waffles.
My counterargument is that my proposal has a decent chance to achieve long range as well( although worse than your), but it also solves several other problems in the cannon.

[10ebbor10]

I don't know; pitch what you're hoping to accomplish by reducing the expense and I'll see how feasible it is.

Well, I'd just treat it just as regular expenses are handled.

Inexpensive equipment could be given to every soldier, if you want.  Cantrips can be cast by every wizard.  Expensive equipment can be given to officers, or one per squad (5-10 soldiers). Very Expensive equipment can be used by special squads only, about 1 in 100 soldiers

At the start of the game, it is assumed that you can put out one wizard (probably an apprentice) per five squads, so spells will take effect accordingly.

So, it would increase the prevalence of apprentices in our army from 1 per 50/ 1 per 25 to 1 in 10. With appropriate effects on Spells and the like.

[10ebbor10]

However, to your list you should add horses. We did this in the past, we can do it again

We are already at maximum horse cheapness. Unless you want horses riding horses, I don't see any further improvement.

[Chiefwaffles]

We're still fighting in the jungle, where horses are pretty much useless. They'll be useful in the future and I know you're just listing them as a possibility, but sure. (Goddamn ninja posts)

Evicted, could the expense credit be used on the academy for more apprentices? (EDIT: THIS WAS NINJA'D TOO DAMNIT EBBOR)

[andrea]

since when did we get at maximum horse cheapness? when we tried to invade the desert we used an expense credit on them, so they weren't cheap. And I don't remember anything happening since them that could have made our horses cheaper?

[stabbymcstabstab]

2 - (Chiefwaffles) Extreme-range Cannons: Chiefwaffles, AndreaStabby
1 - (Andrea) Crystal Cannon Ammunition: Andrea
2- (10ebbor10) Long Range Fireballs :tyrant, 10ebbor10

Expense Credit
2 - (10ebbor10) Save until after revision phase : 10ebbor10, Stabby, Chiefwaffles

how about we design a fireball handgrenade next turn for use by non-magic troops. It would allow them to not only destroy enemy formations but also use that cannon without a mage.


Christ let other people post I can't keep up.

[10ebbor10]

since when did we get at maximum horse cheapness? when we tried to invade the desert we used an expense credit on them, so they weren't cheap. And I don't remember anything happening since them that could have made our horses cheaper?

We used a previous production credit on it. There was a bit of a fuzz about it.

[evictedSaint]

So, it would increase the prevalence of apprentices in our army from 1 per 50/ 1 per 25 to 1 in 10. With appropriate effects on Spells and the like.

That's surprisingly reasonable. 

Sure, lowering the expense would allow you to scour your kingdom for more individuals with magical inclination and conscript them into your army.


And to clarify, there's 4 expense levels. 
Cheap/Normal (interchangeable, mean the same thing) - Everyone who can use it gets it.
Expensive - Reserved for officers or trained wizards.
Very Expensive - Reserved for Elite Squads, Theatre Commanders, and Master Wizards.
National Effort - Only one may be used at a time.  Requires your Hero to operate.

[Chiefwaffles]

You forgot to increment the numbers, stabby. Just going to fix it for you now.

About the Fireball handgrenade: we should definitely look into ways to have embedded magic/runes/enchantments/whatever allowing our soldiers to use magic-type things without a mage present. It'd be useful for a large variety of things including revising the cannon to not require a mage presence.

And RE: horse cheapness. The last update says horses are at Regular while the max cheapness is Cheap.

AND RE TO THE NINJA EVICTED: Oh, that's awesome. I'm changing my vote now.

3 - (Chiefwaffles) Extreme-range Cannons: Chiefwaffles, Andrea, Stabby
1 - (Andrea) Crystal Cannon Ammunition: Andrea
2- (10ebbor10) Long Range Fireballs :tyrant, 10ebbor10

Expense Credit
2 - (10ebbor10) Save until after revision phase: 10ebbor10, Stabby
1 - (10ebbor10) Arzotskan Academy: Chiefwaffles

[10ebbor10]

If a piece of equipment is difficult to produce (or a spell is difficult or costly to cast), it has expense levels: 1 is Expensive, 2 is Very Expensive, and 3 is A National Effort

Regular is the same expense as cheap. It's just inconsistent terminology.

[Chiefwaffles]

Ah. I was wondering about that.

[evictedSaint]

I also thought it went cheap>normal>expensive>very expensive>national effort.

That didn't seem to be the case when I was looking through the combat engine though, so I just rolled with it.

[10ebbor10]

Anyway, my case for fireballs versus long range cannons. I'm starting with a straight comparison.

Long range cannons
+ Same prevalence as fireballs (limited by apprentices)
+ Non-magical projectile (not stoppable by anti magic)
+ Penetrating projectile (cannonballs will bounce through enemy lines)
+ Rapid fire rate
- Limited Ammunition
- Mechanically unreliable

Fireball

+ Same prevalence as cannons ( but limited by apprentices only)
+ Splash damage that can destroy entire squad
+ Will start fires
- Magical projectile (not stoppable by current enemy countermeasures, but new ones could be designed)

Let's also think about what they have to do. At extra long range, we need to blow up ships and Ballistae. A cannon shot against the ship will kill a dozen men with splintering, but will leave the vessel otherwise intact. A fireball shot at a ship will set the rigging on fire, allowing our vessels to close in for the dead blow.

Same for the ballistae. A cannon ball needs a direct hit, else the ball will just pass straight on.  A fireball will set the surroundings on fire and destroy their entire battery. (They will place their ballistae close together, so that 1 mage can aid them all).

Cannons have their use against Moskurg's dense formations. There, the cannon ball can bounce through a dozen men, ruining any teamwork and striking fear into their hearts. At this medium range, the rapid fire will heavily disrupt the enemy formation just before the fighting happens.

My only fear is that the Moskurgians manage to make a counter to our fireball. They can not predict the cannon.

I also thought it went cheap>normal>expensive>very expensive>national effort.

That didn't seem to be the case when I was looking through the combat engine though, so I just rolled with it.

So, just to be certain, is the current system

cheap>normal>expensive>very expensive>national effort

or
 
cheap/normal>expensive>very expensive>national effort

[evictedSaint]

cheap/normal>expensive>very expensive>national effort

Besides, gamewise there's no real benefit to "Cheap" when Normal equips the entire army.  Cost is an abstraction and we're not managing resources.

[10ebbor10]

Okay, then my list is correct.