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[Tyrant Leviathan]

Yeah my next design plan is a steam engine type and my own steam ship idea. Revisions? The plant thing I voted hard for. So going to make revisions. Yeah

[andrea]

We will probably need both design and revision next turn to make a good steam ship, unless we get great rolls. Our engine still needs tweaking before it can be truly useful.

[Roboson]

awww, no love for steam cannons?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Revised steam version.

Once again, just throwing ideas out there. Given what we know about steam and fire, it could theoretically be done in a turn.

[Tyrant Leviathan]

Think just fire ball would be better. Less advanced, more to point.

[andrea]

are we even sure the fireball actually produces much explosive forces? we know it incinerates squads, but I don't think it has been stated that it can actually push stuff?

Steam cannon also provides a stepping stone toward steam rifles, which are a totally sensible idea.

[Chiefwaffles]

The problem with steam cannons is that regardless of when we work on them, they require a lot of effort. We'd have to:
1.) Get the steam engine to a useful state. I'd guess this would take 2 designs/revisions.
2.) Design the steam cannon and iterate it until it's useful.

That's at least 3 design/revisions if everything goes right. We can't really afford to spend that time. I think we need to produce things with immediate benefits next design+revision phase. It all depends on how next battle goes, though. Though lately it's been a pattern of them chipping away at our advantage. I'm not too worried about losing claim of the jungle next battle report but if it continues at this pace they'll be in the jungle again very soon. Actual steam cannons definitely would be extremely useful, but in my eyes not useful enough to justify the time spent on them.
Personally, I think steam cannons should wait until we have actually functional steam-based propulsion and are confident we can spend a few turns without immediately useful designs and not lose anything too drastically.


My very rough idea for an order of operations:
1.) Create/revise an effective long-ranged projectile.
1a.) Basic magic cannon (If I'm reading Roboson's magic cannon thing right, this should be pretty simple. Pressure/funnel/etc. to increase range of fireballs and similar spells.)
1b.) Hybrid magic cannon (The idea is to use steam and fireballs to make more "pressurized" fireballs and very notable range improvements. Could be a stupid idea, but if 1a works this could be at evision.)
1c.) Reverse-charm Magic Cannon (More of an alternative option to 1b - the idea here is that it uses a "reversed" anti-magic charm to amplify the fireball instead of absorbing it. Could potentially in super distant future be extended to automatic-summoning fireballs. FIREBALL MACHINE CANNON. Probably way too hard for step 1 though.)
2.) Steam propulsion fitted onto boats
3.) Full steam/magic cannons.

And @Andrea: Steam rifles are a very long ways away. We'd have to completely perfect steam technology then spend lots of time on the rifle, then hope it isn't just outclassed by having cheap apprentices with cheap fireballs.

6 posts have been made while I wrote this.
Sigh.

[Roboson]

Really it all depends on the combat phase. If having cheap longboats gives us enough to hold our position, then having long range weaponry may be more important than having fast ships. But I can also see how having faster ships could be more important in the naval theater. Since their ballista ships already out-range us, and they can use lucky strike to sink our ships fairly easily, we may want to hold off on making advanced ships that can't defend themselves.

The thing about the cannons, including the steam cannon, is that it condenses the force. So a fireball that can destroy a big area can be condensed down into a smaller area for a much greater force. That's basically the premise of all cannons. If you just light some black powder, it explodes in a wide area, but if you compact it in such a way that the force can only go one direction, it amplifies the force by containing it and directing it in a single direction.

Think just fire ball would be better. Less advanced, more to point.

I agree. If its enough to incinerate squads at a time, its enough to fire a cannonball. And its simple enough to get a prototype in one turn. But if I'm being honest here, it's would probably require the revision in addition to the design despite have 0 to 1 moving parts. However, they were invented by the Chinese in the 12th century (and came to Europe about a century later) and so are well within the era this game takes place in.

[andrea]

I don't understand, why do you think we need to perfect steam engine as a prerequisite to cannons? I support doing that anyway for completeness reasons, but the only part of the steam engine we need for the cannon is the boiler, which is already working perfectly. Everything else is cannon specific problems which don't benefit much from the work we will do on engines, which is mostly turbines.

I don't think we are 2 designs and 2 revisions to get the steam engine useful, more like one design and one revision. Last thing missing to have it be better than rowers is better sizing of the turbine.

Steam rifles are not a serious proposal. they are a far future dream, but they require so many innovations that we can't hope to do anything useful with that idea in the short or mid term.

edit: about the fireball cannon, I owuld like to know exactly the mechanism in which fireball operates. gunpowder works because its combustion turns a solid into a lot of hot gas, icnreasing pressure quickly and enormously. Depending on the working of the fireball, it may not be able to produce much thrust even when confined. It incinerates enemy squads, but you just need heat for that not an explosion. (note: heat would still expand the air and provide some pressure.). Of course, I am not saying it won't work, but we should ask the GM if the fireball is actually explosive or if it is just a ball of hot gas that spreads on impact or something.

In case it does properly explode, fireball cannon could work I guess.

[Chiefwaffles]

Sorry, "2 designs/revisions" meant "any combination of designs and revisions adding to 2".

[andrea]

In that case, yes. That is more or less what we need. Sorry, I misunderstood.

[Roboson]

Order:Operation Mountain Fortress
Our forces in the mountain begin planting forests at the approaches from Moskurg, especially in mountain passes and open fields. And seriously try to have someone competent at logistics running the show. We can just cut our way through again if we block the wrong corridor, but it is still a hassle...

+1.  I'm for using the plant magic in all theaters to impede the enemy's ability to advance.

the only part of the steam engine we need for the cannon is the boiler, which is already working perfectly.

Cannons are a lot easier than steam engines which require precising timing and temperature control and all sorts of things. A cannon has very few moving parts and can be done with relative ease, especially since we have everything we need to be able to design them (plus the metal bonus). Depending on how combat goes, it could go either way as to which we need to build first.

[Chiefwaffles]

Wel, I wonder then.
Evicted: Any chance that you'd mind telling us how "new" steam-based cannons would be? EDIT: What about magic cannons?

[Roboson]

Wel, I wonder then.
Evicted: Mind telling us how "new" steam-based cannons would be?

For the record, I'm more for straight fireball cannons over steam powered cannons. I think the steam would complicate things, and may be better as a revision if need be.

[Tyrant Leviathan]

If a order to give. Impede those bastards. Mountain fortress.

[andrea]

archimedes of syracuse for steam cannons, it seems. Or leonardo da vinci.

There must be something in Italy that causes the idea of steam cannons to pop up.