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[Chiefwaffles]

Ugh. Great potential in its cheapness but annoying that we have to spend a revision to make it useful.

Revise: Large-scale Plant Growth - The Wand of Plant Growth/whatever its name is can be used to create thick foliage and trees (appropriate of a jungle). In addition to keeping the jungle alive and well, this can be used to block enemies, create cover, shield ourselves from view, and more.

Expense credit: Anti-magic bombs - If we get more anti-magic bomb arrows (and are careful with their use, but that's a given; especially considered the lack of friendly fire last update) and spread them throughout our ranged forces, that will greatly increase our effectiveness against enemy mages. By a huge degree, probably.

1 - Revise Large-scale Plant Growth: Chiefwaffles
1 - Expense credit for Anti-magic bombs: Chiefwaffles

[Roboson]

Expense credit: Anti-magic bombs - If we get more anti-magic bomb arrows (and are careful with their use, but that's a given; especially considered the lack of friendly fire last update) and spread them throughout our ranged forces, that will greatly increase our effectiveness against enemy mages. By a huge degree, probably.

Unfortunately if we do that, it will kill lots of our troops. It sounds like even being close to our mages will set them off.

[Chiefwaffles]

We had zero trouble with that last battle.

Actually, y'know what...
evicted: Are our ranged units typically in close range with our mages? Would deploying wide-scale anti-magic bombs prove an risk?

Genuinely curious now here.

[evictedSaint]

It's generally infantry in the front, archers in the back, calvary on the flanks, and mages scattered throughout.  Your Theatre Commander is competent enough not to put magic-sensitive bombs next to the mages and will reallocate his forces as tech develops.

[Roboson]

It's generally infantry in the front, archers in the back, calvary on the flanks, and mages scattered throughout.  Your Theatre Commander is competent enough not to put magic-sensitive bombs next to the mages and will reallocate his forces as tech develops.

If that's the case,

2 - Revise Large-scale Plant Growth: Chiefwaffles, Roboson
2 - Expense credit for Anti-magic bombs: Chiefwaffles, Roboson

Do anti-magic charms prevent arrow detonation

You know what?  No, they don't detonate in anti-magic fields.  Just remember, you asked for this.

I really don't like that this happened.

[RAM]

Revision: Refined steam engines.
Just refine everything. Get the turbines better fitted, get the transmission well-secured and reliable, perfect the fog-summoning technique to supply water(preferably with a more condensed fog spell but that is probably too much to ask for...), clean up the boiler to manage the pressure and cleaning access better(although if it runs wholly on conjuration it shouldn't need much more than a small pressure whistle to tell people to reduce the fuelless flame or pure water...)... Just get the thing operating well with what we have so it is ready for a ship design on the morrow.

Revision: Summon water.
Concentrate the summoned fog into a water spell, to reduce logistics, control fires, make camps more self-reliant and bring water to the desert. And, umm, try to avoid it disappearing after someone has drunk it... Just, y'know, watch out for that, but it should still work fine for the steam engine...

 Ooooh oooh!!! Idea! Sacrifices for permanent conjurings! We sacrifice something and the conjuration replaces it! Conjure permanent water by sacrificing sand! Permanent crystals by sacrificing metal! Permanent annoying biting stinging wasps by sacrificing unwanted Moskurger pests... It could be the final key to making our crystal stuff last forever. I would want this to be added as an addendum to the summon water revision, but it is a lot to ask from a revision as it sort of covers new ground. On the other hand, the effect is just to make the summoned fog spell permanent, arg, so many designs we need...

revision
3 - (Chiefwaffles)Revise Large-scale Plant Growth: Chiefwaffles, Roboson, RAM
0 - (RAM)Refined Steam Engines:
0 - (RAM)Summon water:

Credit
2 - (Chiefwaffles)Expense credit for Anti-magic bombs: Chiefwaffles, Roboson

Orders

Trees mean Favourable campsites, healthy jungle, and minor additional cover against sky-spears. Also it is one step closer to Yggdrasil and the end of the world as Midgard becomes but a footnote to a glorious root-system...

I am fine with the expense credit there, but I just don't feel inspired by the thing.

I really don't like that this happened.

I feel that, but I always expected that to be the case. It is the logical outcome that something that absorbs magic won't work when magic is sucked out of the environment. I am a little dubious as to whether all anti-magic fields would be like this. Ours work by draining all the magic from an area, something that works more like a jamming field should still be throwing magic around and be just as vulnerable as any other magic. Something that forcefully nullifies magic would be tricky. It probably works by pushing magic into an area and then creating an effect that insists on magical absence(basically a form of wishing magic where the wish is for no magic), in which case they will still be hit with magic and have something to use as fuel, but maybe their magical nature gets cancelled. I somewhat dislike the antimagic transparency here because our antimagic creates a magical void, which really ought to be one of the most reliable and powerful antimagic effects, but is very difficult to project over a distance or aim at a target. The antimagic bombs are a good example of this, they are not beams, they are not invoked onto a target, they are not conjured in thin-air, they are just an ordinary sphere of magic vacuum that is thrown using very mundane means.. Their thing seems pretty easy to project over a distance and capable of spontaneously zapping a fireball spell in progress and seems to function just fine when wielded by their own mages. So I would like to think that it has some limitations in terms of raw power or metamagic foundations in terms of what trumps what when they meet. And it seems extremely odd to me that our own antimagic ignores our crystals weapons when they suck magic out of the environment, indicating that the crystals are, at least, impermeable to their own magic leaving them through raw suction, yet instantly vanish under enemy scrutiny, as though the underpinnings of their existence were exposed to all the world...

But still, I walways expected that an antimagic spell would turn them off. It still means shooting their own mages with antimagic, which presumably takes out the mage that is busy antimagicking and the mage that is being antimagicked, unless they can antimagic themselves while antimagicking themselves, which should be difficult because they are being antimagicked... And if they can antimagic themselves, they still aren't casting anything else unless they learn double-casting... !doublecasting!

[Tyrant Leviathan]

Revision: Refined steam engines.
Just refine everything. Get the turbines better fitted, get the transmission well-secured and reliable, perfect the fog-summoning technique to supply water(preferably with a more condensed fog spell but that is probably too much to ask for...), clean up the boiler to manage the pressure and cleaning access better(although if it runs wholly on conjuration it shouldn't need much more than a small pressure whistle to tell people to reduce the fuelless flame or pure water...)... Just get the thing operating well with what we have so it is ready for a ship design on the morrow.

Revision: Summon water.
Concentrate the summoned fog into a water spell, to reduce logistics, control fires, make camps more self-reliant and bring water to the desert. And, umm, try to avoid it disappearing after someone has drunk it... Just, y'know, watch out for that, but it should still work fine for the steam engine...

 Ooooh oooh!!! Idea! Sacrifices for permanent conjurings! We sacrifice something and the conjuration replaces it! Conjure permanent water by sacrificing sand! Permanent crystals by sacrificing metal! Permanent annoying biting stinging wasps by sacrificing unwanted Moskurger pests... It could be the final key to making our crystal stuff last forever. I would want this to be added as an addendum to the summon water revision, but it is a lot to ask from a revision as it sort of covers new ground. On the other hand, the effect is just to make the summoned fog spell permanent, arg, so many designs we need...

revision
4 - (Chiefwaffles)Revise Large-scale Plant Growth: Chiefwaffles, Roboson, RAM, Tyrant
0 - (RAM)Refined Steam Engines:
0 - (RAM)Summon water:

Credit
2 - (Chiefwaffles)Expense credit for Anti-magic bombs: Chiefwaffles, Roboson

Orders

Trees mean Favourable campsites, healthy jungle, and minor additional cover against sky-spears. Also it is one step closer to Yggdrasil and the end of the world as Midgard becomes but a footnote to a glorious root-system...

I am fine with the expense credit there, but I just don't feel inspired by the thing.

I really don't like that this happened.

I feel that, but I always expected that to be the case. It is the logical outcome that something that absorbs magic won't work when magic is sucked out of the environment. I am a little dubious as to whether all anti-magic fields would be like this. Ours work by draining all the magic from an area, something that works more like a jamming field should still be throwing magic around and be just as vulnerable as any other magic. Something that forcefully nullifies magic would be tricky. It probably works by pushing magic into an area and then creating an effect that insists on magical absence(basically a form of wishing magic where the wish is for no magic), in which case they will still be hit with magic and have something to use as fuel, but maybe their magical nature gets cancelled. I somewhat dislike the antimagic transparency here because our antimagic creates a magical void, which really ought to be one of the most reliable and powerful antimagic effects, but is very difficult to project over a distance or aim at a target. The antimagic bombs are a good example of this, they are not beams, they are not invoked onto a target, they are not conjured in thin-air, they are just an ordinary sphere of magic vacuum that is thrown using very mundane means.. Their thing seems pretty easy to project over a distance and capable of spontaneously zapping a fireball spell in progress and seems to function just fine when wielded by their own mages. So I would like to think that it has some limitations in terms of raw power or metamagic foundations in terms of what trumps what when they meet. And it seems extremely odd to me that our own antimagic ignores our crystals weapons when they suck magic out of the environment, indicating that the crystals are, at least, impermeable to their own magic leaving them through raw suction, yet instantly vanish under enemy scrutiny, as though the underpinnings of their existence were exposed to all the world...

But still, I walways expected that an antimagic spell would turn them off. It still means shooting their own mages with antimagic, which presumably takes out the mage that is busy antimagicking and the mage that is being antimagicked, unless they can antimagic themselves while antimagicking themselves, which should be difficult because they are being antimagicked... And if they can antimagic themselves, they still aren't casting anything else unless they learn double-casting... !doublecasting!

Voted. And only have twelve design/branches left in me anyway. For latter. (Some others are revision)

[10ebbor10]

revision
4 - (Chiefwaffles)Revise Large-scale Plant Growth: Chiefwaffles, Roboson, RAM, Tyrant
0 - (RAM)Refined Steam Engines:
0 - (RAM)Summon water:
1 -(10ebbor10) Anti Lucky strike charms
Credit
2 - (Chiefwaffles)Expense credit for Anti-magic bombs: Chiefwaffles, Roboson
1 - (10ebbor10) Expense credit on longboats : 10ebbor10

Orders

You are all happily forgetting that we're on the cusp of losing the seas. Which, if we do, will give a significant bonus to Moskurg.

Revision : Modify Anti-magic charms to protect against lucky strike and other long range magic

Expense credit : Use on our longboats.

On a side note,our naval commander is an idiot. For several turns the Moskurgians have been running away from him, and his only action is to wait and let it happen?

When the enemy runs away, you go after things that they must defend. Go to their ports and burn them down, force them to engage in combat.

Edit :Tyrant Leviathan, please don't quote an dntire massive post. It's a mess.

[Tyrant Leviathan]

Do not know what expense thing means so not touching it. Apologies for the post. Was being rushed.

As for navy: Yes they are beating us now. But we are focused on jungle. If we gain it for good, cheaper boats. Then we kick their asses at sea.

Designs: Honestly aside my stuff just going to vote or or bring up what others have said. If I feel it's worth it. ( And my main two ideas next phase is all navy.)


Just praying we beat the enemy and keep jungle. Then shift focus.

Our navy commander is a idiot who needs replacing btw.

[FallacyofUrist]

Had a thought. What if their antimagic works by convincing our mages they can't use magic? Like a mental block?

[RAM]

Had a thought. What if their antimagic works by convincing our mages they can't use magic? Like a mental block?

That makes a lot of sense, right up until it makes the caltrops vanish. I am pretty sure that it is either wish-based magic-denial or teleportation-based magic void, or possibly a MASSIVE disruption that completely changes the laws of magic at the most fundamental level. The wizard we questioned said that it was like magic just didn't exist anymore(like a child flapping their arms trying to fly? except moreso because they didn't even feel wind under their arms?)... My best hope is the living magic approach, where the magic can will itself into being against a denial effect and manually hold onto its magic in a drain. But the crystals are already immune to our drain so why would theirs be different? Is it just stronger? When it doesn't even have a material focus?

Revision : Modify Anti-magic charms to protect against lucky strike and other long range magic
...
When the enemy runs away, you go after things that they must defend. Go to their ports and burn them down, force them to engage in combat.

It is in the basic rules of the game. Territory doesn't exist, only armies.

I dislike revisions and such that lack justification. It is ultimately up to the G.M., and my votes rarely count for much, so you are not losing much, but it is my understanding that the charms don't work that way, unless the aiming spell needs to sense our position somehow, but that ought to fail already... It basically just makes the other people luckier, and has no effect on us. Luck being a tangible element is pretty powerful when you think about it, but that does seem to be the only explanation. This is pretty bad when they are on another ship and our antimagic charms have a range of about a metre or so. Effectively the only way to extend them is to move them, which we are already doing with the bombs. We could try to extend the range of the bombs I suppose... It also points out a value for increasing the volume of antimagic bombs against mundane soldiers. They do seem to love their buff-spells over there so I might vote for the expense going to the bombs... Except I am too lazy to copy the tally...

Ehh, sorry, my metagaming instincts are too strong. : (

revision
4 - (Chiefwaffles)Revise Large-scale Plant Growth: Chiefwaffles, Roboson, RAM, Tyrant
0 - (RAM)Refined Steam Engines:
0 - (RAM)Summon water:
1 -(10ebbor10) Anti Lucky strike charms

Credit
2 - (Chiefwaffles)Expense credit for Anti-magic bombs: Chiefwaffles, Roboson
1 - (10ebbor10) Expense credit on longboats : 10ebbor10
1 - (RAM) Myark: RAM

Orders

[Roboson]

Revision : Modify Anti-magic charms to protect against lucky strike and other long range magic
...
When the enemy runs away, you go after things that they must defend. Go to their ports and burn them down, force them to engage in combat.
It is in the basic rules of the game. Territory doesn't exist, only armies.

I dislike revisions and such that lack justification. It is ultimately up to the G.M., and my votes rarely count for much, so you are not losing much, but it is my understanding that the charms don't work that way, unless the aiming spell needs to sense our position somehow, but that ought to fail already... It basically just makes the other people luckier, and has no effect on us. Luck being a tangible element is pretty powerful when you think about it, but that does seem to be the only explanation. This is pretty bad when they are on another ship and our antimagic charms have a range of about a metre or so. Effectively the only way to extend them is to move them, which we are already doing with the bombs. We could try to extend the range of the bombs I suppose... It also points out a value for increasing the volume of antimagic bombs against mundane soldiers. They do seem to love their buff-spells over there so I might vote for the expense going to the bombs... Except I am too lazy to copy the tally...

Personally I think that we could completely revise our anti-magic charms to block lucky-strike. I think there are really only two ways it could work, so here they are and how our magic could defeat them.
1) It makes their arrows magically home in on our soldier's weak points via magical guidance. If this is the case, the charms should make them invisible to that guidance system.
2) It enchants the bow, arrow, or shooter to with magic so their arrows strike true or are just luckier via magic. If this is the case, our charms may not be able to stop them, but our bomb arrows should detonate on them since they're magical. (Could I get a GM check on that after this combat phase?)

One thing we may want to invest in, and that those evil-doers will never see coming, is a lucky miss spell. Where an arrow just barely misses as if its trajectory changes at just the last moment and misses our soldiers. We would never have been able to guess that their arrows were lucky if we didn't know about it from the beginning.

[andrea]

I wasn't awake for most of the discussion, but did anyone bring up the fact that should we perform decently, we will fight on the desert next turn? A good ground combat design would have saved the jungle all the same.

[Roboson]

I wasn't awake for most of the discussion, but did anyone bring up the fact that should we perform decently, we will fight on the desert next turn? A good ground combat design would have saved the jungle all the same.

Yeah, it was discussed. It would have won us the jungle, but cost us our advantage there for future battles.

[10ebbor10]

As for navy: Yes they are beating us now. But we are focused on jungle. If we gain it for good, cheaper boats. Then we kick their asses at sea.

If they defeat us at Sea, they get a massive combat advantage in the Jungle. We can not hold  the Jungle with an enemy sea advantage.

When it doesn't even have a material focus?

It has a material focus

On the offensive they'll get close with their ivory staffs and prevent our mages from smiting attacking Moskurgs with fireba

...

It is in the basic rules of the game. Territory doesn't exist, only armies

The basic rules were abandoned for GM fiat, because the program kept doing weird stuff.

I dislike revisions and such that lack justification

Have some pseudo-magical nonsense.

It's a fundamental feature of magic that any spell must have an equal and opposite reaction. Therefore, if one person casts a fireball, the other is hit by a "going to be hit by fireball" effect. By modifying our charms to deactivate those negative efects jnstead of just active ones, we can detach the inevitability of the hit, dramatically rddycing the accuracy of long range spells.

We could try to extend the range of the bombs I suppose... It also points out a value for increasing the volume of antimagic bombs against mundane soldiers. They do seem to love their buff-spells over there so I might vote for the expense going to the bombs... Except I am too lazy to copy the tally

The bombs will not help, because their ballista has greater range than our archers.

I wasn't awake for most of the discussion, but did anyone bring up the fact that should we perform decently, we will fight on the desert next turn? A good ground combat design would have saved the jungle all the same.

I planned on punching into the plains first.