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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 394121 times)

Azzuro

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1005 on: April 27, 2017, 07:37:44 am »

My god, when I saw four new pages I thought Moskurg dropped a thaumonuclear bomb on us. But it's all arguing about the antimagic arrows and failing to decide what to pawn off for sweet gold.

Quote from: Worse than a Dutch ballot
3 Sell Wand of Fireballs: Azzuro, 10ebbor10, Andrea
1 Seize ship: RAM
2 Sell crate of crystal weapons: 10ebbor10, RAM
1 Sell steam engine: FallacyofUrist
5 Sell original steam engine: Chiefwaffles, stabbymcstabstab, Tyrant Leviathan, roboson, RAM
1(-3=-2) Do not deploy anti-magic arrows : 10ebbor10
4(-2=2) Deploy anti-magic arrows: Chiefwaffles, Andrea,RAM, Azzuro
1 Sell crate of crystal weapons, original steam engine, and Wand of Fireballs: Andres
1 Use channelled fog where it is likely to be hit by antimagic. Inform us of the results. shamelssRAM
1 Use crystal weapons which are protected by antimagic: put some caltrops and an antimagic charm down someone's pants and put a crystal axe in one hand and a gem-powered crystal axe in the other then stick them in front of a firewall protecting our archers then wait for it to go poof and check what survived. shamelessRAM
1 Give antimagic charms to our elite anti-wizard guard or hunters or whatever they are now. Especially the ones who are carrying bombs. shamelessRAM

Changes: I never voted to seize the ship, don't know who put my name up there. Changing my vote to deploying the antimagic arrows, instead of against.

Seizing the ship sounds risky, as I think it's high chance of getting an Expense Credit vs low chance of getting two. As we aren't too pressed, I think we should play it safe and attempt to trade with the guy. And yeah, about the arrows, since we have them, we need to deploy them to better gather information on how it performs in the field, which would presumably help us in deciding to how best revise it.

To sum up the whole arrows argument, you guys are devolving into separate headcanons and arguing gets nowhere. Should ask the GM, evictedSaint:
-are our Mage Hunters currently equipped with Antimagic Charms (as of the latest combat report)?
-do our Mage Hunters use magic in their fights or have magic-users within their ranks?


And regarding the trader, I'm still on team Sell the Wand. The revision for PSFs basically said the Wand is Obsolete with a capital O - we haven't used it in nearly a decade! If sold on to Moskurg, it's the least harmful, as there's only one (National Effort-cost) and they already have a wand they're using anyway. They need to spend four design phases and as many revisions to get the use of fireballs widespread among their forces as we have, and that's even more time for us to double down on our specialisations. Not to mention, the trade is specifically looking for magical artifacts that are flashy, of which the Fireball Wand is definitely the most attention-grabbing. The original steam engine isn't all that impressive - just water+fire=steam and pushing a cylinder around in a way that's nearly impossible to get useful work from. (meta) We only think it's impressive because we live a world in the aftermath of the revolution that steam power wrought. Crystal weapons do have the 'shiny!' factor, but they're just sharper and lighter versions of ordinary weapons, and if you were a foreigner who didn't know better they could appear to not be magical at all, just made of strong glass.

I'm against selling the crystal weapons or the first steam engine because they'll give a clear advantage to Moskurg. The crystal weapons can be used against our own forces, though I don't know if they're armour-piercing. The steam engine isn't all that magical - the only magic is the modified firewall spell, which we managed to do in real life without the aid of magic, so I wouldn't count on Moskurg not being able to use it. Steam power will revolutionise the battle for the waves, let's not give them the slightest hint that we have it, or they'll start designing ways to counter it before we even deploy it.

Although they may already be doing so, going by ATHATH's post in the main thread.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1006 on: April 27, 2017, 07:56:46 am »

You forgot thevmost important question.

Do anti-magic charms prevent arrow detonation
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1007 on: April 27, 2017, 12:05:11 pm »

Combat for 926


While neither side developed any new defensive tools to help against skirmishes, this year saw Arstotzka develop a frightening new weapon.  Arstotzkan soldiers shed their noisy armor to creep close in the night, targeting Moskurg mages.  They fire only a single salvo before retreating, but when Moskurg mages scramble to use magic to defend themselves the spent arrows suddenly - and violently - explode.  Being unarmored in the middle of the night means the resulting shrapnel leaves lacerations in everyone nearby.  Several mages are blinded, and in the confusion the Arstotzkan raiders slip away.  The shards are super-heated and cause minor fires where they land, all of which their men scramble to put out.  This happens once more before their mages learn not to cast whenever these raiders attack, as the arrow explosives trigger on contact with magic.  We've managed to incapacitate a few of their mages before the main combat, but they will likely learn not to cast during these engagements.

Both sides do massive damage during nightly raids, with Arstotzka coming out slightly ahead.

The melees have likewise increased in lethality.  Before the combat even begins a two meter long spear falls out of the sky, impaling one of our commanders through his breastplate.  As our men scramble for cover more fall from above, hitting with the same uncanny accuracy of Moskurg archers.  We lose a significant number of mages and commanders before the battle even begins, but after a while the spears taper off and stop all together.

At medium range, however, the battle turns in our favor. Moskurg arrows are still utterly useless against Arstotzkan plate and gambeson, but our arrows and newer fireballs hit with devestating effect.  It's as if every one of our mages was equipped with our original fireball spell, and each blast wipes out squads at a time.  We have fewer mages here due to the earlier sniping, but they're still working to devestating effect.  Their mages can't even cast to try and stop us as our Anti-Mage snipers are continuing to use their explosive arrows. They blast small holes in Moskurg barricades, and their mages are forced to stop casting and hunker down lest their cover be blown to shreds. 

Things grow more even in pitched melee, however - Moskurg has rolled out a new halberd, one which is effective at punching through our plate armor.  A single enemy soldier is obviously inferior to an Arstotzkan soldier, but their larger numbers would turn the tide in their favor were it not for our remaining mages making use of flame walls to channel their troops into killing zones.  This, combined with how they can only use their lightning half the year, means we come out on top.  Considering how they were on the back foot last year, the cowardly Moskurgs are ultimately forced to retreat and we claim the last section of jungle from the enemy.


Our Theatre Commander is worried.  The spears that killed our mages and commanders are a significant problem, even if we can make up for it with overwhelming firepower.  The dense undergrowth has died enough that Moskurg could start marching in formation next year if they wanted to.  The fireballs are nice, but he worries about diversifying our weapons.  What if Moskurg develops something that could counter our fireballs?  He points out that if the antimagic bomb arrows were cheaper, our entire archer force could use them.  Also, why do they need to require magic to activate? Why not give them a timer instead?

Arstotzka gains the jungle. If they hold it next year, they may exploit it for resources.



Our fireballs prove to be less effective on the sea.  Moskurg stays at a distance, hitting our ships with rocks cast from a surprising distance away.  We chase them, but our fireballs don't have the same range.

We lose a few ships before Moskurg retreats, but it's not quite enough to force us to give up a section of coastline.  Another year like this and we'll be forced to give up ground.

The Theatre Commander is frustrated with our inability to catch Moskurg.  Either get the steam engine working or make the fireballs longer ranged - it's been so long since he's sunk a Moskurg ship.

Neither side makes coastal gains in the Western Sea.


Expense Credit:  As it turns out, T’ung-K’ao has a knack for magic, but he's no Myark.  Try as he might, he fails to get the Wand of Fireballs to work, much to his frustration.  He likewise passes over the steam engine, completely uninterested in its mundane nature.  He does seem interested in the crate of Crystal Axes, picking one up and giving it an experimental swing.  He accidentally hacks a chunk out of the railing of his ship and his eyes gleam with child-like wonder.  He manages to convey that he is interested in purchasing the crate, unless there's something more fantastic you'd like to show him.  Sell the Crystal Axes, or something else?


It is 927, the Design Phase.

Spoiler: State of Forenia, 927 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Arstotzkan Elite Units (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Arstotzkan Spells (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 12:15:01 pm by evictedSaint »
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1008 on: April 27, 2017, 12:06:22 pm »

Do anti-magic charms prevent arrow detonation

You know what?  No, they don't detonate in anti-magic fields.  Just remember, you asked for this.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 12:13:48 pm by evictedSaint »
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stabbymcstabstab

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1009 on: April 27, 2017, 12:34:41 pm »

That's the most comforting thing I've hears all day. :P


Any way theybe developed a seige engine from the looks of it, so we should probably do the same. Think about it we got very high pressure steam engines and a vast supply of metal and possible wood.
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andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1010 on: April 27, 2017, 12:37:50 pm »

The timed bomb idea isn't even that bad, we nust need to imbue them with a spell and it will blow up.

I am extremely concerned about sky lances however, i can't see a way to protect from them besides dispelling(assuming conjured, althoughh could be ballista) or tanks.

@stabby yes, a steam cannon. I proposed it before. We can even do some nice tricks with ammo, with the magitech we have.

stabbymcstabstab

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1011 on: April 27, 2017, 12:42:55 pm »

It think the sky lances are from ballista since I know you can shoot smaller boulders and rock's with them too. And honestly our best defense would be to develop a crystal canopy or the like for our mages to hide under. It would protect them from lightning too.
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Contemplate why we have a sociopathic necrophiliac RAPIST sadomasochist bipolar monster in our ranks, also find some cheese.

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1012 on: April 27, 2017, 12:49:40 pm »

Do anti-magic charms prevent arrow detonation
You know what?  No, they don't detonate in anti-magic fields.  Just remember, you asked for this.

Nah, my assumption was that they did, the other guys argued that it shoukdn't.


Any way theybe developed a seige engine from the looks of it, so we should probably do the same. Think about it we got very high pressure steam engines and a vast supply of metal and possible wood.

No no no no.

Let's not start another long term project before we finished the current one.
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andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1013 on: April 27, 2017, 12:52:54 pm »

steam cannon inspired by the early accidents with steam engines, this cannon uses a boiler to build up great pressure, which is then released in  a metal tube where it propels a projectile at great distance. The projectile can be a simple rock or metal balls or barrels filled with nails, pebbles and other small hard objects ( lets call this second shot 'canister'). It has wheels so that our sturdy horses can move them on the battlefield.

Why are boulders and rocks an hint of ballista? I don't remember them raining on us?

I can't write more proposals for now, but i would vote for a steam ship or a steam tank.

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1014 on: April 27, 2017, 01:02:51 pm »

Sell the Crystal Axes

Anyway, I'm pretty certain the enemy siege weapon is what it appears to be, a siege weapon. Likely, they've somehow managed to upgrade their True Strike spell so that it can actually reliable target specific people, as the original spell certainly couldn't.

Anyway, for my design

Obscuring Mists : A mist spell, more powerful and larger than any previous mists spells. It can cover an entire battlefield, and will prevent any attempt from enemies beyond to see or aim at those within, even by magical means.

Tl'dr : We're going into open country soon enough, we need something to stay at closer range. Obscuring mists gives us that, and as a bonus prevents the enemy from sniping our mages or commanders. It should help at Sea too, the extended range of the obscuring mist spell allows us to engulf both the enemy and friendly fleet, ensuring that they can not run away upon seeing us, until it's too late.

steam cannon inspired by the early accidents with steam engines, this cannon uses a boiler to build up great pressure, which is then released in  a metal tube where it propels a projectile at great distance. The projectile can be a simple rock or metal balls or barrels filled with nails, pebbles and other small hard objects ( lets call this second shot 'canister'). It has wheels so that our sturdy horses can move them on the battlefield.

Why are boulders and rocks an hint of ballista? I don't remember them raining on us?

I can't write more proposals for now, but i would vote for a steam ship or a steam tank.

All the -1's ones. Literally, all of them.

Our steam engines are not even functional, and you want to turn into an even less functional weapon.  Honestly, the only thing your steam cannon is going to be good for is if plundering Moskurgians accidentally injure themselves on it's remains.

Quote
1 Obscuring Mists 10ebbor10
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 01:08:13 pm by 10ebbor10 »
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stabbymcstabstab

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1015 on: April 27, 2017, 01:06:27 pm »

Why are boulders and rocks an hint of ballista? I don't remember them raining on us?
If I remember right the Romans used stone balls loaded into ballista at sea where a long bolt would be less useful.


Edit: and they might not be using the stone on land do to range? Accuracy?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 01:11:02 pm by stabbymcstabstab »
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Long Live Arst- United Forenia!
"Wanna be a better liberal? Go get shot in the fuckin' face."
Contemplate why we have a sociopathic necrophiliac RAPIST sadomasochist bipolar monster in our ranks, also find some cheese.

andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1016 on: April 27, 2017, 01:11:15 pm »

Oh, i missed the rocks in the sea report.


While i agree it probably is not the right time for a cannon, i think it would be rather easier than an actually functional engine, although with its unique challenges.

stabbymcstabstab

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1017 on: April 27, 2017, 01:15:54 pm »

Honestly the cannon is close to being a sinple revision instead of a design, since we are stripping pretty much everthing complex on it


'Nother edit: honestly I've been so sleep deprived due to finals and play enough Rome 2 lately and I was doubting myself when I saw your poat
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 01:19:02 pm by stabbymcstabstab »
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Long Live Arst- United Forenia!
"Wanna be a better liberal? Go get shot in the fuckin' face."
Contemplate why we have a sociopathic necrophiliac RAPIST sadomasochist bipolar monster in our ranks, also find some cheese.

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1018 on: April 27, 2017, 01:18:27 pm »

Timed Bomb Arrows
Using our knowledge of mathemagics and firery explosions, we design an explosive arrow that doesn't rely on the magic exposure trigger. In fact, it's not even effected by the presence of magic. Instead, they explode several seconds after hitting a target. This allows us to use the arrows against their regular forces in addition to their mages.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1019 on: April 27, 2017, 01:32:44 pm »

Timed Bomb Arrows
Using our knowledge of mathemagics and firery explosions, we design an explosive arrow that doesn't rely on the magic exposure trigger. In fact, it's not even effected by the presence of magic. Instead, they explode several seconds after hitting a target. This allows us to use the arrows against their regular forces in addition to their mages.

Why not just use fireballs instead, which :

A) Can be thrown into anti-magic fields
B) Can be thrown from further away
C) Are far more destructive
D) Don't have friendly fire
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