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[VoidSlayer]

As an idea, why not create a wide range spell that can trigger the arrows.  Shoot arrows, then cast spell.  It just soaks the area in raw magic power which is absorbed by the crystals then boom.

[Andres]

Thank you all for revising the streamlined fireball. The Moskurgs won't know what hit them.

Glory to Arstotzka.

[Chiefwaffles]

That is another one of the anti-magic bombs' benefits, Void.
1.) They don't have to be an exact hit. If they land within proximity of magic, they should explode regardless!
2.) They're kind of like mines as well! Since we have some constant anti-magic fields thanks to the charms and since we know about them existing + their location and since the arrows will land near the enemy regardless, and because I don't think we have any kind of passive magical fields, we shouldn't have any notable issues with anti-magic bombs detonating on our own troops. They will detonate when any foolish Moskurgian tries to use magic nearby, though!
3.) Their explosive effects aren't extremely deadly anyways, so for us we'll just have the very rare injured squad and fire, but whenever the Moskurgians hit a dormant anti-magic bomb they'll probably be either retreating or fighting the guys that shot the anti-magic bomb arrow in the first place.

I see bright things in the future for anti-magic bombs!

New vote count WITH Tyrant's name fixed (sorry Tyrant):

1 Sell Wand of Fireballs: Azzuro
1 Seize ship: Azzuro
2 Sell crate of crystal weapons: Roboson, 10ebbor10
1 Sell steam engine: FallacyofUrist
3 Sell original steam engine: Chiefwaffles, stabbymcstabstab, Tyrant Leviathan
2 Sell original steam engine & crate of crystal weapons: Chiefwaffles

I removed stabby, Tyrant, and myself from the list for "Sell steam engine" since I'm fairly sure all of us are switching our votes. Sorry if I messed anything up.

[10ebbor10]

That is another one of the anti-magic bombs' benefits, Void

No, it's another of it's drawbacks. We shouldn't have to create a new spell to make lur weapon usefull.

1.) They don't have to be an exact hit. If they land within proximity of magic, they should explode regardless!

The shards don't breach armor, and Moskurgians have armor, so they have to be direct hit.

2.) They're kind of like mines as well! Since we have some constant anti-magic fields thanks to the charms and since we know about them existing + their location and since the arrows will land near the enemy regardless, and because I don't think we have any kind of passive magical fields, we shouldn't have any notable issues with anti-magic bombs detonating on our own troops. They will detonate when any foolish Moskurgian tries to use magic nearby, though!

Anti-magic charms do not prevent detonation. If they did, our elite Wizard hunters should not have any issues.
 Also, we use mist fields to hide our troops, so we will overrun them and blow ourselves up.

3.) Their explosive effects aren't extremely deadly anyways, so for us we'll just have the very rare injured squad and fire, but whenever the Moskurgians hit a dormant anti-magic bomb they'll probably be either retreating or fighting the guys that shot the anti-magic bomb arrow in the first place.

Our forces will carry more than one arrow, and carry them close to themselves. In that situation, the arrows can and will be  deadly to our own forces. In addition, the moment our troops loose their weapons they will be run down by Moskurgians.

And the Moskurgians won't run from a bomb that's an order of magnitude less scary than the fireballs we routinely throw in their face.

I see bright things in the future for anti-magic bombs

Face it. The anti-magic arrows are garbage and not in any way representative of their rolls. A simple design based on pre-existing magic with rolls this good should not require 3 revisions to get functional.

Oh, and for those of you who want to sell the steam engine, remember that the Moskurgians may hear about it,  ruining the suprise.

2 Sell Wand of Fireballs: Azzuro, 10ebbor10
1 Seize ship: Azzuro, 10ebbor10
2 Sell crate of crystal weapons: Roboson,
1 Sell steam engine: FallacyofUrist
3 Sell original steam engine: Chiefwaffles, stabbymcstabstab, Tyrant Leviathan
2 Sell original steam engine & crate of crystal weapons: Chiefwaffles
1 Do not deploy anti-magic arrows : 10ebbir10

Please don't make our anti-magic forces kill themselves.

Elite Anti-Wizard Guard:  [4, 6, 4] The anti-wizard guard proves easy to mobilise and rather effective.  Plenty of skilled carls and longbowmen have sworn to stand in as a dedicated guard against enemy wizards, and you are easily enough able to draft apprentices in to join the effort.  In fact, the endeavour is so effective and attractive to Arstotzkan soldiers, many of whom have lost friends to magically enhanced Moskurger arrows or to al-Mutriqa and the Black Phantasms, that many volunteer with little to no recompense offered.  These elite guard will serve as bodyguards for our thanes in battle, and should serve to counteract at least some of the wizards in battle at large; they will not leave their charges' sides to hunt wizards unless they threaten their thane, but they will certainly shoot targets of opportunity when they arise

Our anti-wizard guard uses magic. Losing the ability to cast is not worth it, especially since the arrows are ridicously useless.

You need a dozen arrows to punch through a wooden shield, while even the lowliest Apprentice can now cast a massive fireball that will consume an entire squad of men. Quite clearly, the apprentice us the superior solution.

[andrea]

The wand of fireball is obsolete , does not provide huge advantage to enemy if captured and does not provide more insight in fire research than we had at the beginning. Even our first engine holds more advanced spells and it might make moskurg discover our secret weapon.
I'll add my votes as soon as possible, phone is quite uncomfortable for this.

[10ebbor10]

3 Sell Wand of Fireballs: Azzuro , 10ebbir10, Andrea
1 Seize ship: Azzuro,
2 Sell crate of crystal weapons: Roboson, 10ebbor10
1 Sell steam engine: FallacyofUrist
3 Sell original steam engine: Chiefwaffles, stabbymcstabstab, Tyrant Leviathan
1 Sell original steam engine & crate of crystal weapons: Chiefwaffles
2 Do not deploy anti-magic arrows : 10ebbir10, Azzuro
1 Do use arrows : Chiefwaffles

This correct?

[andrea]

Correct, thank you!

[Chiefwaffles]

Honestly, you just seem overly pessimistic about it and are looking for reasons to hate them.

But:

And the Moskurgians won't run from a bomb that's an order of magnitude less scary than the fireballs we routinely throw in their face.

The advantage here isn't that they're running from the bombs, but that they'll encounter ones that weren't initial hits while running, helping us in the retreat phase.

Oh, and for those of you who want to sell the steam engine, remember that the Moskurgians may hear about it,  ruining the surprise

See my many posts about the unlikely scenario where our steam engine gets leaked to Moskurg.

Also, if I recall correctly, our anti-magic fields aren't particularly huge. You're radically underestimating our anti-mage units: They're smart enough that they won't stand right next to apprentices while they cast spells.

@Andrea: The wand of fireball does give an easy starting point for Moskurgian fire magic, though.


And now the actions. I retroactively added mine and Andrea's support for deploying, but even if it turns out to be a tie shouldn't deployment be the default action?

3 Sell Wand of Fireballs: Azzuro, 10ebbor10, Andrea
1 Seize ship: Azzuro
2 Sell crate of crystal weapons: Roboson, 10ebbor10
1 Sell steam engine: FallacyofUrist
3 Sell original steam engine: Chiefwaffles, stabbymcstabstab, Tyrant Leviathan
2 Do not deploy anti-magic arrows : 10ebbor10, Azzuro
2 Deploy anti-magic arrows: Chiefwaffles, Andrea

RIP a decisive action for the trader.
Lemme go through the two tied actions:
- Sell Wand of Fireballs: If Moskurg gets this, they get to start doing fire magic without penalty. Sure, they start off with just the basic fireball, but that still removes a unique advantage that we benefit a lot from. We don't want them diversifying more.
- Sell original steam engine: The original steam engine is useless in all practical scenarios. It requires serious time and effort to get to a practical condition - time and effort that would be better spent elsewhere. Even after our work on it, it's still practically useless. It's cool, novel, and flashy for the trader, but useless for Moskurg unless they waste a ton of time on it, giving us an advantage.


EDIT: Further note - We did get good rolls. In addition to all my previous points based purely on the results, I doubt that something with rolls like what we got would actually hurt us if deployed. You're being paranoid.
(Also forgot to add Azzuro to do not deploy arrows - I fixed that)

[andrea]

The steam engine has our firewall spell in it.

[Chiefwaffles]

Design: Steam Engine [2-2, 1-2+1, 6-2]
...
It first took a minor tweak of our existing Flame Wall spell to generate a more manageable sized flame.  It still requires the attention of a mage to be maintained, but so long as they aren't distracted for more than a few seconds it wont go out.

It's not like we embedded a spell into the steam engine. It takes a mage to maintain it by casting the spell. And selling an original steam engine is exactly what it sounds like - we're selling them an obsolete steam engine not used anymore based on the very first design, and we are not selling them the design and spells necessary to maintain it.

[10ebbor10]

Honestly, you just seem overly pessimistic about it and are looking for reasons to hate them.

Honestly, you seem like you're ignoring what their description actually says in favor of your own beliefs.

The advantage here isn't that they're running from the bombs, but that they'll encounter ones that weren't initial hits while running, helping us in the retreat phase.

Given that the weapon is useless against armored targets on non-direct hits, this will do nothing.

and minor lacerations for unarmored bystanders.  Unfortunately, the relatively low stopping power of a crystal shard means they wont be able to penetrate shields and armor once the arrow head explodes

Remember, all Moskurgians are armored.

Also, if I recall correctly, our anti-magic fields aren't particularly huge. You're radically underestimating our anti-mage units: They're smart enough that they won't stand right next to apprentices while they cast spells

The description explicitedly says that our forces have to be very far way  from our magical forces. That directly implies they will no longer use magic.

There is nothing to back up your belief that the Anti-magic charms will prevent detonations. In fact, the fact that we have to separate forces makes clear that they don't.

A minor problem we've noticed; the arrow head doesn't discern between friendly magic and enemy magic.  The entire quiver will explode suddenly and violently in the presence of any magic, including our own.  As a precaution, our Mage Hunters will be kept as far away from our magical forces as possible.

Remember, both work by absorbing magic. If the explosive arrow absorbs any, it will explode. The Charms do not appear capable of negating magic fast enough.

And now the actions. I retroactively added mine and Andrea's support for deploying, but even if it turns out to be a tie shouldn't deployment be the default action?

Retroactively adding votes for your proposal, but not adding those against it is kind of dishonest.

[Chiefwaffles]

Notice how I fixed the actions before you posted.
Weak spots exist. There's not a single Moskurg soldier without weak spots. DOUBLEEDIT: But this isn't the point.
Anti-magic charms help, but don't cover everything, hence the separation. It's only logical to assume they do because they work off the exact same principle of the anti-magic bombs and absorb magic. No magic = no anti-magic bombs exploding. It's the fact that our magical forces aren't equipped with charms is the problem.

EDIT: Actually, let me reinforce my point.
Our soldiers are covered in plate mail. The bombs give minor lacerations to unarmored, and cancel magic. In the rare scenario of one of our mages walking over an undetonated anti-magic bomb while casting a spell, the mage may get superficial injuries. All of our mundane forces are utterly unaffected by the magic bombs. The main point of magic bombs is the fact that the explosion and related things is in addition to being shot at an enemy mage.

[10ebbor10]

Weak spots exist. There's not a single Moskurg soldier without weak spots

Even against unarmored targets, it only causes minor lacerations. When your weapon is as dangerous as a bush of roses, it's useless.

It's only logical to assume they do because they work off the exact same principle of the anti-magic bombs and absorb magic. No magic = no anti-magic bombs exploding.

Both work by absorbing magic. One charm neutralizes it, the other explodes. There's no reason to assume that the anti-magic charm would absorb fast enough to prevent explosion. Likely, both will absorb magic at the same rate and range, leading to an explosion.

Charms were explicitedly mentioned in the design. If they prevented explosions, they would have been used.

It's the fact that our magical forces aren't equipped with charms is the problem.

Yes, the issue is that our mages cast magic. Considering magic is much more powerfull than our arrows, I think we should ditch the arrows and keep magic.

[Chiefwaffles]

Bolded red mine, and bolded is emphasized original parts:

Design: Antimagic Bombs [6, 4, 5]

Though our earlier incidents with exploding anti-magic charms was done with diamonds, it doesn't take much to modify our new quartz charms to also explode.  It's even easier to do, in fact, thanks to the lower quality of the material.  Once we have the spellwork down it's a simple matter of enchanting quartz crystals cut into the shapes of arrowheads to fashion our first anti-magic arrow.

As an extra bonus, we've managed to specify the crystal to reach peak temperature before shattering violently; the shrapnel does most of the damage to soft, unarmored tissue, but the super-heated crystal shards can start fires if they land in dry grass or soft fabrics.

Hitting a mage with an arrow will likely result in death for the target and minor lacerations for unarmored bystanders. Unfortunately, the relatively low stopping power of a crystal shard means they wont be able to penetrate shields and armor once the arrow head explodes, but we've noted that if it explodes once shot into a wooden shield it will punch a small hole through it.  Sustained fire against shielded enemy mages will slowly reduce their cover so long as they cast.
The arrow only results in major injuries/death if a mage is shot with it. As it happens, we're not shooting our own mages with anti-magic bombs. Our problem is the shielded mages. This arrow helps significantly towards countering it. That is the point of this arrow. Not the minor lacerations to bystanders.

Due to the complexity of crafting anti-magic charms and fashioning them into perfectly weighted arrows, they are Expensive and will be given exclusively to our Mage-Hunter squads.

A minor problem we've noticed; the arrow head doesn't discern between friendly magic and enemy magic.  The entire quiver will explode suddenly and violently in the presence of any magic, including our own.  As a precaution, our Mage Hunters will be kept as far away from our magical forces as possible.  Expensive.
As long as our anti-mage units with the anti-magic bombs are kept away from magic-users, they'll be fine. Even if there are apprentices working with anti-mages, they don't all have to be together with the anti-magic bomb users and again, our anti-mage units aren't stupid. They know that anti-magic bomb + magic = bad. Even in the EXTREMELY UNLIKELY case of a quiver exploding, it shouldn't be lethal at all with full plate even with the full quiver.

Though I do agree that the anti-mage arrows are disappointing given the rolls, but they work and help us counter the enemy shields.

[VoidSlayer]

We need to fix our ships.