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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 386150 times)

evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4035 on: July 23, 2017, 10:44:50 pm »


Revision: Antimagic-immune circuits  [4+3]

We have plenty of experience with anti-magic and circuitry, so hardening our circuitry against Moskurg Anti-Magic is rather trivial.

A small AAAethergem can be inserted into any circuit to provide enough power to shield the nickel wires from Anti-Magic fields, including our own.  Against our own anti-magic, the AAAethergem produces enough magic to remain replenished despite the rather minor draw, and we're pleased to note that automatic circuits (such as the ones that generate blastballs) can produce their magical effects despite the field of effect.

We take the liberty of upgrading everything that uses circuits accordingly for no additional cost.



How do you deal with the potential Espionage Credit this year?

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4036 on: July 23, 2017, 11:03:43 pm »

Cool!
And I've asked evicted on the discord. He says that our mages will still be able to "feed" circuitry like the stuff used in the AS-HAC-1 and so on while in AM fields.

Anyways, as for the Espionage Credit -
Have Myark use the Wand of True Light on the crew+captain to try and influence their loyalty. Of course not enough to brainwash them, but enough to make betrayal unlikely.
Of course we can't brainwash them because we don't have that much time. But we can use the time we have to give them a very small degree of "loyalty" to Arstotzka. Not enough to trust them as soldiers, but enough for them to "like" Arstotzka a bit.

Quote
ESPIONAGE
1 - Use Wand of True Light on crew+captain just enough to make them like Arstotzka a biiit more than Moskurg; agree to deal: Chiefwaffles

ORDERS
2 - Don't deploy the Avenger yet: FallacyofUrist, RAM
2 - Deploy the Avenger: Chiefwaffles, voidslayer
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4037 on: July 23, 2017, 11:08:25 pm »

For the espionage credit, we should try and steal a spell or design.  We might need a revision or design to use them fully but I think there are two things we should look into getting.

First is True Shot.  Our cannons having the same accuracy of their ballistas would be devastating.  This is literally a starter apprentice spell so it should be trivial to steal.

Second is their carpet stuff.  It seems like it would be infinitely easier then our weirdo rockets (I love the weirdo rockets but they are not working well so far), and we could combine the two together anyway to make our rockets much more useful.

helmacon

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4038 on: July 23, 2017, 11:22:41 pm »

I kinda want to use the credit to steal their flamethrower fuel. We could design aerial detonation fuel shells, and then ignite them with our explosive shells to really screw with them. Their own wind would even make it even worse. It would spread the stuff everywhere, and turn the sky's into a fiery maelstrom that only our enclosed craft could survive.

We just dropped 2 designs into our own air tech. It seems like such a waste to immediately abandon that.

Given how well the revision went, I vote to deploy the avenger. It may not be a dog fighter, but it flys and shoots. So long as our aether gems are charged before take off, it should even have a minuet it so flight time when in an anti magic field, to shoot down what ever it is that's casting it.

No matter how bad it is, it's something in the sky. They go from being completely un contested, to being contested. It's like when the continental arms race went from being a massive naval advantage to a major naval advantage.

Edit: eh. I wouldn't really be opposed to stealing their flight tech. I really don't want to have to put any more designs/revisions into this thing.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 11:24:56 pm by helmacon »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4039 on: July 23, 2017, 11:28:58 pm »

That's actually a really good point regarding the Avenger. We may not have the upper hand, but with the Avenger Moskurg has to actually worry about being intercepted. They can't jut fly around with ease not worrying about a thing. It should definitely make a sizeable difference.


Personally I think we should try stealing Moskurg's wind magic. But then we don't try to just put their wind stuff on our ships. Instead, we learn from what they did. Then we incorporate it into the KPD.
So instead of just making a wind-powered aircraft, we take their control of the wind and apply it to the KPD and Blastball. We could try for applying their absolute control of the wind (an external force) to control of kinetics using Blastballs like how the F43 intended.

So basically, we just steal their wind magic but instead of using wind magic ourselves we just improve our own tech. For a weird analogy, it's like how in the XCOM game you develop lasers based on applying knowledge learned to existing Earth knowledge of lasers after studying alien plasma weaponry. Except in this analogy plasma weaponry is lame and stupid and 10000% worse than lasers.

Maybe. I'unno. Lucky strike could work, but it's just not as cool as guided ammunition.


Quote
ESPIONAGE
1 - Use Wand of True Light on crew+captain just enough to make them like Arstotzka a biiit more than Moskurg; agree to deal: Chiefwaffles

ORDERS
2 - Don't deploy the Avenger yet: FallacyofUrist, RAM
3 - Deploy the Avenger: Chiefwaffles, voidslayer, helmacon
Added helmacon's vote for deploying the Avenger.

Though the Avenger should have exactly zero problems flying in AM fields. Aethergems and Magegems are already immune and now the circuitry is too. Since mages can still power circuitry the Avenger should be unaffected by anti-magic.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

helmacon

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4040 on: July 23, 2017, 11:55:10 pm »

Quote
Against our own anti-magic, the AAAethergem produces enough magic to remain replenished despite the rather minor draw,

Although this dosent explicitly state it, it would seem to imply that enemy antimagic dampens the magical generation ability of our aether gems, and this effect is much less pronounced from our own anti magic.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4041 on: July 24, 2017, 12:27:20 am »

Right, but the revision is implementing an AAAethergem in all circuits to completely counter the power loss for all circuits. The Avenger's reactor doesn't have to deal with this power loss as the revision makes the circuits handle it themselves.

And Magegems+Aethergems are already immune to anti-magic. The "enough magic to remain replenished despite the rather minor draw" is referring to the power draw on the circuits which then take power from the circuit's integrated AAAethergem to compensate for that power loss.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4042 on: July 24, 2017, 12:39:36 am »

The correct course is to just sink to your level and not justify anything, just provide the most simple and direct counter with no argument and devolve into ignorant savages.
Jesus christ, RAM. Can you maybe not?
That is all the evidence that I could have asked for. I mean, sure, some people might be stupid enough to believe that your statement is somehow moderate, but I like to think that people are not that blind.

And I admit that I was wrong about that revision being viable. I was quite certain that it would be -2 at best. I mean, I was right for that, our solution is sort of nonsensical. Last I heard an aethergem was the size of a forearm, but even one the size of a finger is unlikely to fit into the circuitry that is inside a device or operates a small device(such as our small arms) without redesign, but meh. Also our antimagic that has never succeeded in countering magic or been applied to circuits is all relevant. I genuinely misunderstood that experience is experience regardless of context. In light of these new discoveries...

Phoenixes
 We build a new artillery shell, we have lots of experience with this. It has circuits, we know all about circuits, so it can cast a spell easily. It spins around because of rifling, and flight dynamics, and because all of our boats involve streamlining, we have that too! But it doesn't really need to spin, because our force magic shoots the spell out to a great distance. What is that spell? Why, a fire spell of course, because we have massive experience with fire. But I wouldn't leave it at that, it is special fire! With our antimagic experience, it is fire that uses magic as fuel and oxidiser! So long as there is anything magical in its vicinity, it will spread to it and burn away all the magic, and because it comes from a circuit, it is immune to antimagic, because that is canon now! And lets not forget that all of our conjuration spells have a duration, so it is ridiculously easy to get it to wait a while before activating. Antimagic spell, conjured antimagic charm, steam reservoir... Besides, all of our plant spells are time-based and we have, like, three of those, so this is easy! And because it only burns magic, it will either go straight through their nonmagical metal into their faux-carpets, or burn the magic out of their magical metal and then go through the useless al metal! Because they use wind spells to move, as soon as they use a wind magic to push away from the burning boat, the fire will spread to them! And because there are no survivors from falling from the skies when their only means of escape sets them on fire, nobody will be able to figure out not to blow at the burning ships! Not that it matters when al of their main vessels are contributing to the same storm spells... And apparently the AAAthergems make no difference when included into circuitry, so powering the thing is a non-issue and having it explode when it hits something is just bonus.

Long story short: cannon shells that spin around and shoot out massive(medium range? We have lots and lots and lots of experience with medium range spells) plumes of magical fire that burn away entire Kegger fleets. Blowing them off-course just lets the flames eat the deflection spell and follow it to its source...


Stealing the wind magic would have been a good idea when I suggested it, now I don't really see how we could apply it effectively, unless you are just asking for a bonus on the propulsion that we don't have after two designs due to a complete lack of prioritisation on designs with half-a-dozen elements which thus desperately needed prioritisation at which point we may as well just spend a revision buffing it...
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4043 on: July 24, 2017, 01:05:38 am »

We need variety not power.  The only real use for the wind magic at this point is countering their own (or making flying fire breathing dragons).

helmacon

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4044 on: July 24, 2017, 01:06:19 am »

Jesus people, lets tone down the salt a bit. We are getting awfully close to a lethal dose. The GM has already threatened to give an espionage credit if you guys don't chill.

If this keeps going on i'm going to suggest a team rule where RAM and CW aren't allowed to directly respond to each other.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4045 on: July 24, 2017, 01:15:31 am »

Void, our problem right now is that we have too much variety and not enough power.

See the AS-R1.
See the Protector.
See the Avenger.

Two out of the three are functional, but both the AS-R1 and Avenger have had multiple actions poured into them already and aren't amazing. All three have great potential but still aren't extremely useful (we'll see about the Avenger) until more work is put into them.


The idea behind stealing wind magic is that we can basically just use it to upgrade the KPD. Take their extreme and easy control over wind and apply it to the KPD. So basically we get a much easier KPD upgrade when we do it.

We don't really need their greek fire or faux gunpowder since we have fireballs and Blastballs. And Lucky Strike would be nice, but it feels like it would be a waste of the credit when we can design guided ammunition more capable than Lucky Strike.
Lucky Strike is basically just "+1 to hit chance; +1 to critical hit". We're very close to having missiles, which are a whole another, better, story.



EDIT: Speaking of missiles...

Future Design: AS-GM-45 "Hunter" Missile
The Guided Munition-45 "Hunter" is a new type of weapon - the missile. A term coined to describe this evolution of the Blastshell.

Spoiler: Fluff (click to show/hide)

Weight - The GM-45 is significantly lighter than the Avenger. Because the GM-45 is a missile. And the Avenger is a 2-man gunship. This is relevant later.
KPD - Put the Gen. 2 KPD (from the Avenger) onto the missile. Greatly decreased in (size? dunno how big it is in the Avenger) and power/thrust because of the aforementioned weight decrease. Missile should still have much greater acceleration than the Avenger for obvious reasons, but ultimately much less power+thrust.
Reactor - Because of the much smaller KPD, we can go for a much smaller Reactor, preferably consisting of AAethergems or in the worst case scenario, Aethergems. Because the GM-45 is a missile and doesn't really have much of an operational lifetime, we can put extreme overcharging on the Reactor gems to decrease the amount+expense of gems needed to power the GM-45.
Warhead - Instead of Magegems powering a Blastball like in the Blastshell, we just put the Reactor at the front of the missile in a thin crystal shell. The volatile aethergems should provide a violent detonation hopefully even greater than a Blastshell without having to waste more space on Magegems+Circuitry for the detonation.

Mindgem - Make modifications to an AA (Aether/)Magegem to fit a magical entity. Then isolate the "mind" part of our summon wasps spell and summon parts of the mind in magical form into the Mindgem. We're shooting for simplicity, here; we're not even summoning the whole wasp mind! The goal here is to just get an extremely primitive precursor Mindgem that can point the missile at bad things. Again, simplicity - this Mindgem is not intended to host actual intelligences; but rather just the bare minimum of a wasp to go "see bad thing; go there" and literally nothing else.
Mindgem Maneuvering - The Mindgem just outputs primitive targeting data that circuitry then feeds into the KPD, which then thrust-vectors to point the missile at the target. (Which is an established existing feature of the Gen.2 KPD)
Mindgem Targeting - Doesn't really matter. Probably via magical signatures, though ideally the Mindgem will be able to interpret between friend/foe due to the fact that the Wasp can, but it's not a dealbreaker if there's no IFF. Fluff is mostly irrelevant here.

Firing - The missiles are fired via a missile launcher - a large object housing four missile pods on a fairly tall mount and slowly "aimed" via some mechanical gears. Transported by horse, hand, or Restless.

TL;DR: Make a small KPD, put the reactor at the front as a warhead + super-charge it because we're not reusing it. Then put an extremely simple Mindgem with the bare minimum parts of a Wasp's mind to point the missile at bad things which the KPD then thrust-vectors to point the missile at. Warhead is done via the volatile-reactor.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 03:45:59 am by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4046 on: July 24, 2017, 05:21:14 am »

Was it ever confirmed that wasps have I.F.F.?

I do not recall any variable circuits. It might be rather difficult to have something with enough fine control to drive an aircraft. Given that most of the problem is in creating the distinct mind spell(I would much prefer intelligent spells that are much more versatile than intelligent crystals that are a little more stable but take up weight and space. Also, it would be easier to retrieve a living spell to have it learn rather than a crystal that will suffer significant battle casualties.)

Also, I prefer the mage-slayers that I just proposed as an antimagic design. Mage-seeking missiles seem much mire useful than enemy-seeking missiles and a pulling effect seems more effetive than a steering effect, what with their different attitudes to overshooting and the mage-slayer's inclination to go after a different mage after whatever it was seeking stops being a mages... But hey, we got our fighter up to three-fifths finished instead, and it will surely take them more than a revision to get a better air-superiority craft.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 05:29:03 am by RAM »
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4047 on: July 24, 2017, 06:38:05 am »

Design: ASAF-F44 "Avenger" [4, 4-1, 4]

...

 Using the characteristics of our new blastball spell we can create an engine that generates lift.  The KPD Mk.2 engine is essentially a crystal cup, into which a number of nickel circuits and copper scrollwork is integrated.  We make liberal use of the conductive/non-conductive crystal to channel energy towards the base of the cup where the continuous blastball can be generated and directed outward.  The intensity of the generation can be modulated to provide differing levels of thrust.

...

The pilot is still equipped with a set of rotating spherical controls, which adjust the angle of the KPD's output up to ten degrees.
I'm actually not sure how exactly the thrust is angled, but it's likely through either modifying the variables of the spell or angling the thruster itself. Considering our experience with the Blastball and our experience with mechanical things like an angled thruster (we can't even make a proper ball turret!) I'd bet it's changing the Blastball-based propulsion spell in real time. But it could be the other.

Point is, it's thrust vectoring regardless of how exactly it's done. The angle of the KPD's output is adjusted to maneuver the craft.


Though I don't know what exactly you mean by variable circuits. Our circuits are pretty robust. In fact, this is where circuits were invented:
Revision: Magical Condensor: [5+1]

We get the details of the condensing system worked out.

It certainly took some complicated spellwork; the spell needs both the input of the outside temperature, the temperature of the metal it's engraved in, and the target temperature.  It needed a rather complex formula to govern the intensity of the spell based on these inputs and a number of safeties to prevent it from cracking or freezing parts of the machine it shouldn't. 

...

The inscription requires the complex spellwork to be engraved into the metal by hand in an intensive, length process that only skilled metalsmiths are able to pull off.  The engraving is then filled in with gold, allowing the magic to be held within.

Curiously, we discover by accident that a completed circle, or "circuit", allows the spell enchantment to remain on the weapon indefinitely.  Breaking this circuit causes the magic to dissipate.
Note the mentions of complicated input, and we've made radical improvements in circuitry since then. Unless you mean something else by variable circuits?

I'm not necessarily saying we should do the missile immediately, but I do think it's a good idea.


As for the wasps, well, them having IFF is extremely likely. From the OP:
Quote
Summon Swarm:  Conjures a swarm of stinging wasps to harrass foes.  Expensive.
Note the use of "foes" and the lack of any mention of attacking allies. Also, this is a starter spell; starter spells are usually pretty straightforward in their power. Summon Swarm summons wasps that harass enemies. That's it.
Better to ask evicted about it, though, I guess.




Fun fact.
Fortunately, thanks to the brave sacrifice of dozens of apprentice wizards sent off to the jungle to hunt for specimens, you are able to discover a rare beetle that has a gland capable of producing a sticky, burning substance.  With great difficulty, you manage to alter the summoning spell so that ice wasps are summoned but with fire beetle glands.
It's been under our feet this entire time.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4048 on: July 24, 2017, 08:40:52 am »

Missiles go to rockets which go to SPACE!

I'll +1 that once you propose it, but I do think we should improve the F44 to the F45 first.

Or at least make it so that the F44's reactor doesn't explode.

Also, don't we still have a spare expense credit?
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4049 on: July 24, 2017, 01:15:38 pm »

Quote
ESPIONAGE
1 - Use Wand of True Light on crew+captain just enough to make them like Arstotzka a biiit more than Moskurg; agree to deal: Chiefwaffles

ORDERS
2 - Don't deploy the Avenger yet: FallacyofUrist, RAM
3 - Deploy the Avenger: Chiefwaffles, voidslayer, Andres
1 - Denounce Moskurg on the world stage: Andres

Glory to Arstotzka.
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