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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 386400 times)

Gwolfski

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2805 on: June 04, 2017, 04:07:57 pm »

Fireball miniguns!
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RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2806 on: June 04, 2017, 04:50:35 pm »

This is more a proof of concept that we can make a man portable spell casting device for no mages.  Once we do, the sky is the limit as to what we can make.  We could have our soldiers summoning fog, creating crystal shields, summoning wasps, summoning webs, uh what other, wow we don't have a lot of spells do we.

Anyway, if they are effective, we can make beam cannons and rapid fire mini fireballs and such later.
That is actually a good idea. We have put way too much effort into steam-rifles to bother with fireball wands unless they have some advantage, such as rate-of-fire(Which is mostly dependent upon the amount of magic it uses, numbers will make up the difference...), accuracy(for a non-wizard it would be limited to a timed detonation, probably with a three-step range selector, or converting it into an instantaneous arcless beam), or utility(putting a small bolt through a ballista port and spreading fire throughout the interior?). Utility spells make much more sense!

Huh, just realised, we go to all this effort to get mage gems and their carpets can presumably store magic if what was said in the big argument was true...

Shield Maidens
A personal guard for our wizards. They are each equipped with a light metal tower shield of about 1x3 metres with a single brace curving from the left side near the top to the centreline of the shield where the ground would be at a roughtly 20 degree angle. This shield is made of light metals and made thin, so can be readily carried despite its absurd size. Across its back is a large circuit network linked to a pair of magegems in the sturdy handle. Activating the circuit by cluitching one of two small textured panels on the shield creates a barrier of crystal in front of the shield and its brace that is thick enough to either take a cannon shell or be largely immune to arros and flames to its front. There is also a crystal frame for rigidity and a metal beam to secure the brace and, fortunately enough, discharge lightning strikes through the shield instead of its user...
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andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2807 on: June 04, 2017, 04:54:11 pm »

fireball wands have the advantage of being explosive.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2808 on: June 04, 2017, 05:06:36 pm »

Personally I don't have much hope for ever using fireball "wands" in antimagic fields. But they can still be very useful as heavy snipers.
Steam rifles, however, could probably be some day given to all our troops.

I just don't think that's a good idea to pursue. We don't need that much investment in infantry. We need to invest in areas where it can help us. I'm okay-ish with the idea of the M1 Fire Rod because it's basically a replacement for bows and serves as a sniper and anti-air, but also doesn't require the insane investment that the steam rifle does.

Again, I still prefer the Restless and HAC-1. People should vote for those.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Gwolfski

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2809 on: June 04, 2017, 06:59:54 pm »

I personally like the train.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2810 on: June 04, 2017, 07:04:54 pm »

In that case, I'm adding your vote to the train, Gwolfski.
Though I would appreciate people adding votes themselves to avoid being unclear and make everyone else's lives easier.

I also changed the link + name for the Restless to reflect the revised version I posted earlier.
Quote
DESIGNS
0 Ritual of Flame:
0 Institute of Mathemagical Analysis:
0 Hunter Falcon:
0 Internal Detonation Engine:
3 AS-STV-1 "Restless": Chiefwaffles, Andres, Gwolfski
0 Lighting Control Towers:
0 Pulse-jet:
0 Longshot rod:
1 AS-HAC-1: Kadzar
0 Longshot rodd:
0 Shinesteel Armour:
1 AS-M1 "Flame Rod": Voidslayer
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2811 on: June 04, 2017, 07:15:53 pm »

Waaait.  We can summon crystal.  Does that mean we could fast summon new tracks in front of the train.

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2812 on: June 04, 2017, 08:15:04 pm »

Waaait.  We can summon crystal.  Does that mean we could fast summon new tracks in front of the train.
Hrmm, it would require a lot of magic...

Suck
Magic recharger for mage gems.
We Build a flower-like circuit with multiple redundant channels that feed into magegems and charges them. The redundancy allows the circuit to function even with an improper number of mageems and avoids overflows allowing magems to be inserted or removed freely. At the centre of the circuit is a diamond, attuned to recieve magic from one facing and compel it through the circuit and into the gems. This prevents the magic from being captured in nearby fields, at least weaker ones. Atop the diamond is a large block of quartz attuned to gently absorb magic from a large area and direct it into the diamond. This whole apparatus is then encased in crystal for portability and endurance with slots open to insert or remove magams as needed. Initially, these will be deployed to artillery positions and ships to free up wizards to fireball the foos...


Greatwoods
By performing a ritual a great pine-seed is bonded to a dogwood pog and absorbs a magam. By doing so it attains a massive ability to store and exploit growth energy. An apprentice then channels magic into it for a week as long as it takes, empowering it greatly. It can then have a command issued to activate it, before throwing it into a hole and running away. In under a minute it rises into a truly massive tree, Thick enough to survive a cannon shell and tall enough to reach flying carpets. These are used as defensive cover for artillery positions, archer and web positions to harass carpets, and can be used to build large wooden structures in a single piece.


Prears
A plant that looks largely normal but has a completely unnatural root system. It sinks its roots deep into the earth using our growth magic and 'swallows' gems from the ground to send them into its fruits. Producing pears that are filled with gems. Reduces the cost of gems...
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Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2813 on: June 04, 2017, 10:03:27 pm »

Design: AS-M1 "Flame Rod"
I don't like this design. There are multiple reasons why I don't like this design. The core idea isn't bad, but there are details which I think make it a sub-optimal design.

Additionally, there's also a part reaching past the handle that goes over one's shoulder in order to stabilize the weapon during aiming.
The stock should go against the shoulder, not over it.

Inside the barrel is a swath of circuitry. Specifically, circuitry to summon a "fire bolt" - a variant of our Streamlined Fireball design. The fire bolt uses roughly the same amount of energy as a Streamlined Fireball, but sacrifices some minor destructive power for increased speed and thus increased range. The Fire Bolt is still very destructive and has a minor AoE effect, but isn't quite as effective as a Streamlined Fireball in terms of raw power. Yet its increased speed and range make long-range shots much easier and make the M1 have a higher range than any of our fireballs.
This is the greatest flaw of the design, its use of a Firebolt. There are several problems with it.
1. It would be filling the inside of the barrel with circuitry, which we've never done before and which will be especially difficult with a barrel this small.
2. It's an improvement/sidegrade of fireball, decreasing chance of success.
3. Streamlined Fireball still works against armoured opponents because it does relatively high damage. This Firebolt does less damage and may not work against armoured opponents as a result.
4. AA magegems would make the design bulky, and that's assuming it would be weak enough to fit in them. A gems are the only ones that can hold Streamlined Fireballs and they can only hold 2 of them.

Consider using bullets instead.
They're like cannonballs - which we've worked with often - except smaller.
They make use of our rifling technology, resulting in high accuracy.
The bullets will have better armour penetration since all the energy is focused on the bullet and not on creating an AoE effect.
Bullets require less explosive power than Firebolt to be effective, which means we can just strip down Streamlined Fireball. Downgrading is easier than upgrading or sidegrading, so less chance of failure. More importantly, the decreased power means we can use smaller magegems. Smaller magegems makes the design lighter and, critically, allows us to distribute more of the guns. If we can get it down to AAA, all of our forces can be equipped with them, which would be huge.

This process is done by a person applying pressure to an AAA Magegem "trigger" in the handle, pushing it into a circuit and completing it, firing the M1 without requiring any charge in the AAA Magegem Trigger.
The trigger doesn't need to work via magegem+circuitry. A simple lever would work in connecting the ammunition gem to the firing circuits.

TL;DR: A sniper rifle
Forget sniper rifle! If we get this cheap, this could be a standard issue weapon for our troops. Infantry would become relevant again and their flying carpets would drop out of the sky under a fusillade of projectiles.

tl;dr: Make it a cheap, bullet-using rifle.

Glory to Arstotzka.
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RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2814 on: June 04, 2017, 10:06:48 pm »

tl;dr: Make it a cheap, bullet-using rifle.
Such as the longshot rod?
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2815 on: June 04, 2017, 10:13:02 pm »

tl;dr: Make it a cheap, bullet-using rifle.
Such as the longshot rod?
Without the boiler. The boiler is unnecessary. Our Fireball spells explode, which is all we need to launch a projectile.

Glory to Arstotzka.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2816 on: June 04, 2017, 10:15:41 pm »

I don't think we should jump to making a ballistic rifle just yet. It's not a bad idea, but I just don't think we have the technology for it. We'd be making a steam rifle. Now, with magic it'd definitely be very viable compared to real life scenarios, but our magical steam cannons are still way too large for that.

This is one of the reasons I like the HAC-1. It's useful on its own as a form of anti-air, as a general (relatively) rapid-firing cannon, and is very versatile while being a very significant step towards a steam rifle. The HAC-1's actual cannon part is able to be carried without extreme effort by a person, but still can't be fired in that form due to the weight, etc. - like a minigun, basically. It's a significant miniaturization of our cannons, paving the way to steam rifles, while still remaining useful.
(Kind-of-Ninja-Edit: I crossed this out because I realize Andres wants a rifle using fireballs as propulsion instead of steam like our cannons. I still think the above stuff is valid, just not relevant right now.)

Also it'd make it really easy to incorporate breech-loading in the HA1 and HC1-E in one revision. Which would be super useful.

Most of your criticism seems to mostly be opinion/assumptions which are fine. (Except the stock thing, which I'll just go ahead and edit now). But really, I'm not that invested in the AS-M1 (though with that being said, I want to keep that designation if we do steam rifles) because of its niche use.

Oh yeah, and since I mentioned it, what do people think of the HAC-1 as a general design to pursue in the near future?
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2817 on: June 04, 2017, 10:21:41 pm »

The "sniper" thing was just to give them to our sniper squad first if they are not cheap.  We can always reduce the cost later.

I understand it might not be desired this turn, but please consider it for future designs.

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2818 on: June 05, 2017, 01:21:11 am »

It ought to be possible to tweak the boiler magic a little to get more efficincy. I would expect a pure fireball rifle to be weaker and less efficient, due to having to vreate all the power at once in a very specific place. It would probably be unnecessary to make proper bullets with fireball-charge backings as getting the fireball to aim right behind it ought to be possible, but it is tricky, especially if you don't want the circuits getting damaged.

Crystalcad
Them varmits be droppin da bomb on arr shippies! This be bads! We dun gots to makes up da covered shippies! If sa shippy be covered anyways, wh dun we make it under da waters!
We Propel it by having forward-facing covered pipes pull seawater into the base of crystal(to prevent salt corrosion) boilers and pump it out of backwards-facing pipes attached to the top of the boilers.
Steering is handled via crystal-summoning circuits at the back, which summon fixed rudders.
It has "towers" that act as floats, along with floatation 'bells' while the hull remains submerged due to ballast. These towers are obviously sealed at the top and bottom to prevent leaking if they become damaged, and the ballast is in sections that can be removed by activating a fireball circuit to blast them off if the towers lose buoyancy.
Ventilation is handled by numerous sealable pipes to the surface, with covers at the top. Under the tube are either boilers to expel air or cooling blocks based on the tower of frost to pull air in.
Drainage is handled by floor-tubes that leade to a central drainage pipe, leading to a simple pressure valve with a boiler under it, steaming the water out once it gets to a volume large enough to enter the boiler.
It is armed with two towers, each with a single cannon and a turn-table many ball-bearings are used to allow the cannon, and its heavy-armoured crystal encasementm to rotate as applicable. The encasement has a top and a bottom, with the cannon sticking out of a relatively small vertical slit in the top, while the bottom has a railing to rotate it. Access is granted by a hatch in the back of each tower that consists of a loose plate and a par of wedge-shaped beams and braces to hold it closed. There is also an emergency hatch in from the top of the hull, but that is sealed by a screwed hatch with an ice enchantment and can only be used when the hull surfaces after releasing all its ballastm which would ideally never happen. The wizards remain safely in the hull, relying upon gems to power the cannons.


Null Tube
A pulse-jet on wheels with an Equaliser on it. It can be used on land or sea(sans wheels) to charge into the enemy, rendering their magic gone.
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2819 on: June 05, 2017, 08:54:02 am »

Quote
DESIGNS
0 Ritual of Flame:
0 Institute of Mathemagical Analysis:
0 Hunter Falcon:
0 Internal Detonation Engine:
4 AS-STV-1 "Restless": Chiefwaffles, Andres, Gwolfski, FallacyofUrist
0 Lighting Control Towers:
0 Pulse-jet:
0 Longshot rod:
1 AS-HAC-1: Kadzar
0 Longshot rodd:
0 Shinesteel Armour:
1 AS-M1 "Flame Rod": Voidslayer

Supporting the Restless because better steam engines and infrastructure.

Future Revision: Crystal Optics: We've noticed that crystal bends light. Overcome by visions of directed beams of concentrated light and crystal shrouds of invisibility, our researchers focused on learning how to manipulate the creation of crystal in our Crystalworks to change its light-bending properties. What we've found is that invisibility crystal and crystal "laser" emitters are definitely possible, but need more than a revision. However, we've also developed a more mundane tool from this: a "spyglass", or as our astronomers are calling it, "telescope", which allows vision at far greater distances than normally possible, and eliminates the need for spotters, as well as being very tactically useful.
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A Thousand Treasures (And You).

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