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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 393658 times)

Gwolfski

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2790 on: June 03, 2017, 06:32:38 am »

I think trains would be a good idea, as basically it would get enough supplies to the front line to shell the enemy 24/7, therefore severely reducing all their actions. You'd have to be mad to charge into a storm of shells. Also, trains.
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2791 on: June 03, 2017, 09:06:45 am »

Future Design: AS-STV-1 "Relentless"
(Steam Transport Vehicle 1)
I have several problems with this design. First of all is its nickname. It is my belief that it should not have one, but if it must have one, it should instead be "Restless" in large of the fact that it does not need to rest like a horse. Relentless should be saved for something else.

The tracks required can be built out of cheap crystal or cheap metal - whatever our soldiers/workers have the most of on site at the moment. Though generally we recommend metal, as crystal-built tracks do require maintenance a bit more often than those made of metal. Tracks can be built initially from Arstotzka to the theatres by construction crews, then our combat engineers can build up our rail network as we advance in a theatre, allowing the Relentless to always be available at the front lines.
Don't make track material optional. Make it standardised and make it metal. We cannot afford to have our apprentices doing something like track maintenance. They are needed elsewhere.

TL;DR: A train. It carries massive amounts of cargo and people, as well a couple HA1s to serve as mobile artillery. This doesn't have any benefit in any direct avenues, but it should be a massive overall buff to our performance in every land theatre. It should also rectify the problems our artillery has with water and whatnot. And more! Also, it's really cool for culture.
It must be stated that the train itself should be primarily made out of crystal. It's stronger than steel which means it'll have protection from aerial bombardment and lighter so it'll move faster. Together, it also allows it to carry heavier loads more reliably. Unlike tracks, using apprentices to do maintenance on the trains themselves is acceptable. Making it out of crystal will also allow minor repairs in battle to be done more easily than if it were made out of metal.

For our Revision, I'm thinking we should give crystal a minor regenerative ability, something that allows it to fix microfractures, chips, and small cracks on its own. It can't do anything about larger cracks on its own, but it does make it easier for apprentices to repair them.

Glory to Arstotzka.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2792 on: June 03, 2017, 09:23:41 am »

I'll add in most if not all the stuff you mentioned regarding the train later today, Andres.

Andrea, perhaps. It'd still be useful against air. Our archers were useful with their slower carpets. So using easy-aiming cannons with better ranges, velocity, and damage should be no different against their better carpets.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2793 on: June 03, 2017, 11:39:00 am »

Do we really need hand steam cannons?  Can't we just make mini fireball wands usable through nickle circuits and mage gems?

andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2794 on: June 03, 2017, 12:56:55 pm »

Most importantly, I think the steam rifle consumes less power. However, a magegem wand should be simple enough that it might be possible to augment magegems at the same time.
The idea is good, care to write a design?

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2795 on: June 03, 2017, 02:13:32 pm »

Future Design: AS-STV-1 "Restless"
(Steam Transport Vehicle 1)

We set out to make a land vehicle. Powered by a steam engine.
But this proved to be a difficult design task. So in order to facilitate speed and cargo capacity using our steam engines, we've settled on a kind of compromise - tracks. They're built specifically for the Restless, but provide guidance for it and allow it to move without difficulty. Our mathemagicians are calling this type of a vehicle a "train".

The tracks required are constructed utilizing mountain-sourced metal, making them cheap and easy to build. Their design is very simple and they use small amounts of material. This means large sections of track can be easily built at a time with untrained workers, soldiers, or combat engineers. Extending the range of the Restless isn't a problem.

To facilitate a large cargo capacity on these tracks, we've devised a system of cars. The first car is the engine car and houses the steam engine(s) required to move the whole train. The driver of the train resides here, and powers the engine(s) as well as controls the acceleration, stops, and other aspects. A limited Magegem battery is present in the car, but this is merely to allow the train to operate for minutes at a time while the operator's attention is elsewhere.
The other cars are specially made for holding cargo, passengers, weapons, and more. These can be easily hooked on or off the engine car as needed, and can be chained allowing for large numbers of cars all moved by a single engine car.

Additionally, the Restless shall possess a limited HA1 armament to provide occasional fire support and for self defense. This armament isn't the main focus of the Restless, but it should provide significant benefits. The vehicle would be capable of protecting itself to a significant degree, and the mobility provided to the onboard HA1s would give them an extreme advantage. The train can easily move from place to place with its HA1s instead of the slow and arduous process to set up just one HA1.

The Restless is made utilizing machine crystal. The crystal makes it very tough against bombardment. It also makes it much lighter than one made out of metal due to the large volume of materials used, and thus makes it faster than an equivalent metal train. The tough crystal additionally allows for heavier load capacities before the integrity is compromised.

As a significant aspect of the design, our Mathemagicians aim to noticeably decrease the size of the steam engine for best performance. This is a very high priority design goal compared to any other individual element.

The Restless promises to be a gamechanger. Troops from both Moskurg and Arstotzka are forced to bring their troops and supplies in via long, arduous, and expensive means in limited quantities at a time. But the Restless completely changes it. It's fast speed allows it to carry massive amounts of cargo and passengers at a time to anywhere in the front lines and back. Our troops can easily move through the battlefield. Retreating becomes easier. Reinforcement comes easier. Supply lines become extremely easier. The Restless can bring in massive amounts of shells, water, and other supplies for our artillery to allow them to fire nonstop. Rations and supplies for our troops can be brought with ease, meaning they never run short. The issue of cargo and passenger becomes a nonissue. And as a bonus, the HA1 armament means we have what's essentially a mobile artillery emplacement that can shell the enemy from multiple places and move around far quicker than our HA1s and HC1-Es.

EDIT: I'd like to emphasize its ability to carry in water+shells for our HA1s and other weapons. This is a very big/obvious problem with the HA1 that was quite explicit in its original design result and in pretty much every combat phase we've used it in. Fixing this problem should be a huge improvement to the HA1 in addition to the train's other very substantial benefits.

TL;DR: A train. It carries massive amounts of cargo and people, as well a couple HA1s to serve as mobile artillery. This doesn't have any benefit in any direct avenues, but it should be a massive overall buff to our performance in every land theatre. It should also rectify the problems our artillery has with water and whatnot. And more! Also, it's really cool for culture. Built entirely out of crystal and uses metal tracks.

Quote
DESIGNS
1 Hunter Falcon: Kadzar
1 AS-STV-1 "Restless": Chiefwaffles
0 Ritual of Flame:
0 Institute of Mathemagical Analysis:
0 Internal Detonation Engine:
0 Lighting Control Towers:
0 Pulse-jet:
0 Longshot rod:
0 AS-HAC-1:
0 Longshot rodd:
0 Shinesteel Armour:
Made the changes Andres suggested. I'd prefer either this or the HAC-1 in terms of this turn's design.

Regarding magic/steam rifles, personally I think either works. Steam rifles are probably more energy-efficient, easier to anti-magic-resist, and are much cooler, but magic rifles are more versatile (different spells) and probably simpler to make.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 10:17:26 pm by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Kadzar

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2796 on: June 03, 2017, 02:16:25 pm »

I'm changing my vote. Better cannon aim should allow us to use them for pretty effective anti-air, and we could possibly even combine them with a specialized anti-air shell.
Quote
DESIGNS
0 Ritual of Flame:
0 Institute of Mathemagical Analysis:
0 Hunter Falcon:
0 Internal Detonation Engine:
1 AS-STV-1 "Relentless": Chiefwaffles
0 Lighting Control Towers:
0 Pulse-jet:
0 Longshot rod:
1 AS-HAC-1: Kadzar
0 Longshot rodd:
0 Shinesteel Armour:
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Glory to Arstotzka!

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2797 on: June 03, 2017, 05:38:16 pm »

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VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2798 on: June 03, 2017, 10:52:50 pm »

Flame Rod

A rod of metal about a meter in length with four points at the tip and a slot to place a mage gem inside.  The inside of the rod has nickle circuits which draw power from an inserted mage gem and produce a powerful bolt of fire which is ejected from the pointed end.  The bolt which flies out is equivalent to a lesser fire ball but more efficient in design allowing both faster speed and further range.  It uses a specialized mage gem with about twice the power of the type A gem (or is two type A gems glued together).

The rod is held by a user and pointed at a target while holding the mage gem in the other hand over the triggering slot.  When ready to fire the gem is inserted, causing it to cast the fire bolt almost instantly.  The mage gems are totally drained to produce the effect so each soldier using the rod should carry multiple mage gems.

They are intended for our sniper squads as a priority, and then others as needed.  It does not require the user to be a mage, but a mage could use it by constantly powering an inserted mage gem.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2799 on: June 03, 2017, 11:47:21 pm »

Something similar in energy use to the Streamlined Fireball should only really take up one AA gem. No need to limit yourself where you don't need to.

I hope you don't mind, but I've written a more detailed version.

Design: AS-M1 "Flame Rod"
The AS-M1 "Flame Rod" is a groundbreaking new weapon using circuits to power a handheld projectile weapon far more powerful and easier-to-use than any bow we've ever had.

The design is reminiscient of a handheld HA1. In a way. It has a small "barrel", a crosshair construction used to guide one's aim, a slot for a magegem on the bottom, and a curved handle near the back. Additionally, there's also a part reaching past the handle that goes over against one's shoulder in order to stabilize the weapon during aiming. The entire weapon is constructed using machine crystal, making it very durable.

Inside the barrel is a swath of circuitry. Specifically, circuitry to summon a "fire bolt" - a variant of our Streamlined Fireball design. The fire bolt uses roughly the same amount of energy as a Streamlined Fireball, but sacrifices some minor destructive power for increased speed and thus increased range. The Fire Bolt is still very destructive and has a minor AoE effect, but isn't quite as effective as a Streamlined Fireball in terms of raw power. Yet its increased speed and range make long-range shots much easier and make the M1 have a higher range than any of our fireballs.

The Magegem is inserted into a slot ibbyn the bottom and secured using a small "mechanism" keeping it in place unless purposely pulled out. The inserted Magegem sticks out and is quite a prominent feature of the M1. It's connected by crystal conduits to the circuits in the barrel. One AA gem is enough for one shot, and anyone using a M1 can keep a number of AA Magegems on their person and swap them out as needed then recharge them when near a wizard. Alternatively, a wizard using the M1 can channel energy into the Magegem allowing for continuous fire without ever removing the Magegem clip.

The stubby barrel doesn't take up most of the design. It looks like it has a long barrel, but that's merely for ergonomics. The actual barrel is quite small and is simply used to summon the firebolt in - a long barrel for guiding and power isn't needed as the Fire Bolt is created with precision and speed initially. Circuits summon the firebolt and propel it forward, depleting the inserted Magegem. This process is done by a person applying pressure to an AAA Magegem "trigger" in the handle, pushing it into a circuit and completing it, firing the M1 without requiring any charge in the AAA Magegem Trigger.

The result is a devastating precise weapon usable by mundane troops and wizards alike. The target expense is just Expensive, and it should be used as a sniper weapon to eliminate aerial units as well as key personnel. The user aims the weapon while holding it by lining up the crosshairs (indicating where the Fire Bolt will go) with a target, and applying pressure to the trigger. The destructive effect of the firebolt mean the M1 still has a notable amount of use against fortifications and similar things. It should be issued primarily to long-range engagers as the weapon is still vulnerable to anti-magic.

TL;DR: A sniper rifle firing Fire Bolts, a faster+higher-ranged version of the fireball with a reduced-but-still-present AoE effect. It's accurate and can be used by mundane soldiers and wizards alike, making it highly versatile.
Personally, I still prefer the HAC-1 or AS-STV-1.
If we ever make the Crystal Spyglass, we can attach it to this thing for a scope too.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 10:26:01 pm by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2800 on: June 03, 2017, 11:54:13 pm »


Quote
DESIGNS
0 Ritual of Flame:
0 Institute of Mathemagical Analysis:
0 Hunter Falcon:
0 Internal Detonation Engine:
2 AS-STV-1 "Relentless": Chiefwaffles, Andres
0 Lighting Control Towers:
0 Pulse-jet:
0 Longshot rod:
1 AS-HAC-1: Kadzar
0 Longshot rodd:
0 Shinesteel Armour:
1 AS-M1 "Flame Rod": Voidslayer


Nah, we need a direct weapon like they developed.

I will go with the AS-M1 fluff and encourage that we need this up and running BEFORE they revise those lighting rods of their not to explode.



Also how do I grab the URL for a specific post?

NM
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 11:56:18 pm by VoidSlayer »
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RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2801 on: June 04, 2017, 12:06:15 am »

I worry abut building somethign that contains a lot of circuits out of crystal that is known to have issues with circuitry...
I feel that making it look like a gun is silly. It doesn't need any ammunition feed, chamber, barrel, or any of that. We can make it look like a science fiction energy weapon egg-with-a-handle or just have a gauntlet, or even have a two-metre-long stick with a series of magnifying crystals along it for extreme optical zoom...

I feel that completely dumping area of effect is the right thing to do, and probably converting all of the explosive energy that spreads a fireball into heat energy to set things of fire and fry people with a beam. If we can spread dangerous flames over a whole unitthan we ought to be able to makea tight beam that will set fire to a carpet or cook someone's heart... Putting the gem in the base seems silly, as the base is often awkward to get at. Outting it in the top seems sensible, it isn;t like a magazine that would get in the way, or you could stick it in the side and make pushing in a new one push out the old one.

Then again we want to preserve our gems where possible, so a design that uses gems included in its construction is probably cheaper than one that has replaceable gems that tend to get lost...
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2802 on: June 04, 2017, 12:09:20 am »

Uh the rod is made out of steel and nickle.  You could probably knock someone over the head with it.  No crystal.

Also I wanted to slightly improve the mini fireball not mess with the spell a whole lot.  This is really put everything we already have together into an awesome weapon, we can alter it's effects later.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2803 on: June 04, 2017, 12:17:35 am »

Crystals only have a problem with circuitry when they are the circuitry. The gun still uses nickel circuits.

EDIT: And the brittleness of Crystal does not play a role here. It's been explicitly said that at the level of circuitry the fractures are so small it'd be fine for literally anything else. And we're not using it in circuitry. The only other scenario of problematic brittleness is with the Crystalclad's steam engine, which is a much bigger scale than the M1.

The appearance is for two reasons:
1.) Coolness. Magic guns!
2.) Ergonomics. The "barrel" is long to allow easy handling. It has a handle for easy handling. It has a stock for easy handling. It has a "magazine" for practical reasons necessary in the design.

I'm not completely dumping area of effect. The M1 isn't quite a gun yet and shouldn't be forced to attempt to stand on its own as a proto-gun.
By keeping a limited AoE effect, it serves a role as a mundane/long range fireball in addition to its regular sniper role. And trying to modify the fireball more is simply unecesssry and overambitious for the design. We can make a beam rifle later.

Putting the Magegem on the bottom is explicitly to mirror magazine design in modern guns. If you OT it on the top, it impedes aim. It's not exactly hard to get to the base. Just as easy as the top, really.

We don't care about conserving gems. There has never been and is not a mechanic regarding material scarcity like that. If we use AA gems, then it increases the expense of the design to Expensive at most or some similar mild effect. If we use multiple gems, then nothing else should happen as long as we don't say "100 AA Magegems per soldier." Remember that Expense is a relative term. A Very Expensive tank isn't the same as a Very Expensive gun.
Including Magegems in the construction is a horrible idea. Then you'd have a gun that can only be used once in the field before needing recharging or a Very Expensive gun that can fire twice.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 12:21:04 am by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2804 on: June 04, 2017, 12:22:50 am »

This is more a proof of concept that we can make a man portable spell casting device for no mages.  Once we do, the sky is the limit as to what we can make.  We could have our soldiers summoning fog, creating crystal shields, summoning wasps, summoning webs, uh what other, wow we don't have a lot of spells do we.

Anyway, if they are effective, we can make beam cannons and rapid fire mini fireballs and such later.
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