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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 393262 times)

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2070 on: May 09, 2017, 03:00:57 am »

On a side note, Moskurg's anti-frost tower system relies on using hot air from the desert. They donlt have the magecraft to heat air, but need to steal it from eksewhere.

That means that if we attack the desert with Frost towers, and turn it freezing like the Jungle, their spell will fail and their forces will freeze again.
I would like to request that the G.M. consider that blowing air from the desert means blowing air onto the desert to replace what is lost, most likely from all around it, namely the plains, mountains, higher altitudes, but mostly sea. I would suggest that doing so would be detrimental for the desert's climate...
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
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Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
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Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2071 on: May 09, 2017, 03:37:24 am »

Order: Arstotzka civil war.
Because I'm tired of this.  ::)
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2072 on: May 09, 2017, 03:43:04 am »

On a side note, Moskurg's anti-frost tower system relies on using hot air from the desert. They donlt have the magecraft to heat air, but need to steal it from eksewhere.

That means that if we attack the desert with Frost towers, and turn it freezing like the Jungle, their spell will fail and their forces will freeze again.
I would like to request that the G.M. consider that blowing air from the desert means blowing air onto the desert to replace what is lost, most likely from all around it, namely the plains, mountains, higher altitudes, but mostly sea. I would suggest that doing so would be detrimental for the desert's climate...

I would like for the GM not to consider the meteorological implications of anything we or Moskurg has done.

Because our area of perpetual cold would make rather nasty perpetual cyclone.

Quote
Does anyone like that idea?

The fraction idea has no effect on my votes, so I'm perfectly fine with it.

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Azzuro

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2073 on: May 09, 2017, 07:03:25 am »

Order: Arstotzka civil war.
Because I'm tired of this.  ::)
+1
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United Forenia Forever!

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2074 on: May 09, 2017, 07:12:28 am »

Please do not include designs that have no votes in them. That's just unnecessary clutter that does nothing. Putting in Revisions when we're not even in that phase is worse. No partial voting either. Come on, man.

As for what we should design, well, a proven advantage has been our frost towers as they were single-handedly responsible for us taking the mountains. Cheaper artillery is of greater priority, but that can and should be done with a revision.

AS-MFT A1. Double the range and the potency of the towers.

Simple, but very powerful. The increased range will let us use them offensively as they'll be able to affect regions they aren't even in. The increased cold they generate will allow us to use that increased range to kill all the Moskurgs affected. By just doubling what we have in the plains they will die, and by moving unnecessary MFTs from the Mountains to the Jungle, they will die in the Jungle as well.

Again, I see the need for more artillery, but we should leave that for a revision. It's more efficient, and if the design for a cheaper artillery piece fails we'll have spent both our Design and our Revision for the same thing. We also need to combat their new warm wind magic before they obsolete our towers, or worse, before they do what we're doing except with heat instead of cold. We don't want our men to die of heatstroke.
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Designs!
2 AS-HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles, 10ebbor10 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447733#msg7447733
1 Shrouder Shell: FallacyofUrist http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447735#msg7447735
1 Flameshrieker Shells: Lightforger http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447746#msg7447746
1 Spell-forged Steamworks: RAM http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7447761#msg7447761
1 More powerful, longer ranged MFTs: Andres http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163277.msg7448054#msg7448054

Glory to Arstotzka.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 07:27:41 am by Andres »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2075 on: May 09, 2017, 08:27:18 am »

Andres, I'd suggest also trying to get the towers to work at Sea, presumably by using their extra range from the coast.
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2076 on: May 09, 2017, 08:51:38 am »

Andres, I'd suggest also trying to get the towers to work at Sea, presumably by using their extra range from the coast.
It's important not to overreach on designs. Amplifying the range so that they're useful for the sea means we'd need to nix the potency boost or else the design will be too likely to fail. The thing is that we need that potency boost to counter Moskurg's Warm Wind and kill Moskurgs on the Plains/Jungle.

By the way, I have two other ideas which may be of use to us.

One is a fire-based, continuous-firing ray cannon. They will be mounted on ships, have extreme range, a fire attack, and hit-scan aiming. We'll need some more advances in fire magic before we can do this. The first will likely be a National Effort, but even a single one would be very useful. fakedit: This weapon would be devastating in an open field.

The other idea is a Staff of Winter. A National Effort that lets a wizard wield the full power of Winter, allowing them to do stuff like freeze opponents or summon blizzards. Would be a good weapon for Myark to use.

Glory to Arstotzka.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 08:57:31 am by Andres »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2077 on: May 09, 2017, 09:13:18 am »

Anyway, I think it may be interesting to keep track of Moskurgian Military capabilities. I made this list for my own convenience, and I think it's pretty much complete.

If anyone remembers something, feel free to add.

I've taken the liberty to strike through the enemy weapons that I think have been rendered useless.

Spoiler: Mundane Equipment (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Magical Equipment (click to show/hide)

One very interesting thing is that a truly ludicrous amount of Moskurgian Military might relies on Wind Spells. They have 4 schools of magic :

Divination
Wind
Lightning
Anti magic

Meanwhile, we are far more redundant.

Fire
Cold
Plants
Crystals
Anti-magic
Creature conjuration.

Of course, some of those schools are barely used, but the same can be said for the Moskurgians. They have just 1 lightning spell, and most of their divination (with the exception of Lucky Strike) is already countered. The result is that they rely to an enormous amount on their wind Magic, and one specific wind spell.

Sabotage that, and their entire battle formations falls to pieces.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 09:21:16 am by 10ebbor10 »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2078 on: May 09, 2017, 09:27:15 am »

Nice, ebbor. That'll definitely be useful.

Maybe we could design our tower to also control weather? It'd be a direct counter to their wind stuff. But I still think that when we revisit the tower, range is the best option. Affecting their deserts would help us a lot by just hurting their war effort in general and would completely nullify their frost tower counter.

Still think Artillery is the best option now though. It helps us significantly on sea where we're extremely close to winning again. It helps us in the plains and the jungle. It's what all our theatre commanders recommended. It helps counter their stupid ballistae. Etc.


And re: voting; I'm fine if anyone wants to do a 1/.75/.5 thing. It doesn't disrupt the rest of the voting and still works with RAM wanted.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2079 on: May 09, 2017, 10:10:51 am »

Quote
Maybe we could design our tower to also control weather? It'd be a direct counter to their wind stuff.

The problem is that that is a counter to their advantage, because they have more experience with wind magic.

We need to use one of our fields of magic to counter theirs.
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2080 on: May 09, 2017, 10:17:28 am »

Quote
Maybe we could design our tower to also control weather? It'd be a direct counter to their wind stuff.

The problem is that that is a counter to their advantage, because they have more experience with wind magic.

We need to use one of our fields of magic to counter theirs.
Our Frost Towers is well qualified to counter their wind magic. It is not sending wind against wind, or general weather manipulation, but by forcing a specific kind of weather to exist, that would nullify whatever they try to do.

Glory to Arstotzka.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2081 on: May 09, 2017, 10:19:43 am »

Our Frost Towers do not force a specific kind of weather to exist.

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Creates a very powerful cold evocation and then channels it directly into the air, consistently lowering temperatures within a radius of about fifty miles.

All they do is lower the temperature.

They have shown to have no effect beyond that. They don't cancel the wind Moskurg uses to create storms, they only cool them down. They don't cancel the wind Moskurg uses to shield against arrows. They don't cancel the Desert Winds, only cool stuff down.

Hence, I believe a frost tower attempt would fail spectacularly.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 10:23:07 am by 10ebbor10 »
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2082 on: May 09, 2017, 10:30:33 am »

Our Frost Towers do not force a specific kind of weather to exist.
I was unclear. I meant our Frost Towers can be used as a base for the kind of "specific kind of weather enforcement" based on the fact that they already do some amount of what we want done. We were discussing which of our magic trees we could use to get the counter we want, not which of our magic trees already gives us a counter, and I over-trusted in that context. For the effects of the Frost Tower, we just swap "make colder" with "make cold in this specific way".

Glory to Arstotzka.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 10:32:07 am by Andres »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2083 on: May 09, 2017, 10:44:08 am »

Pretty darn certain that is just going to be equivalent to opening up a new magic tree, with the same penalties.

Oh, Important note.

We got our Metal bonus back. We have to consider that when designing.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 10:45:49 am by 10ebbor10 »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2084 on: May 09, 2017, 11:07:45 am »

Sorry for the Doublepost.

The Following Actions could have benefited from the metal boost but didn't because we lost the mountains are :

Design: Mk 2 Magic Cannon [3, 3, 1]
Revision: Rifling [1]
Revision: Improved Range [1]
Design: SPB1-A "Fog-O-War" [3+1, 6-3, 1+1]
Design: SO1-AM "Equalizer" [2-1+1, 2-1, 1]
Revision: Magical Condensor: [5+1]


Now, the biggest question is :

Will our Elite Cannon get a metal bonus (automatically becoming cheaper if revised) or not?

Technically, it's based on the standard cannon, which already had the bonus. In Practice, all the upgrades that made it very expensive did not have the bonus. So, hence the question.
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