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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 386447 times)

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2010 on: May 05, 2017, 04:44:25 pm »

Okay, while the national effort shell isn't exactly a great thing, you know what's interesting?
Quote
Surprisingly, our researchers note that when the charms overlap the volume of the anti-magic field is preserved.  Having multiple charms in the same area negates magic in a larger area, although continuing to add charms has diminishing returns with respect to range.
That's a bonus to anti-magic charm range revisions/designs right there. So it isn't a total loss. Just an almost total loss.
Also on the not-as-dark side, if we ever want to do try again we'll definitely have a bonus, but it would most certainly have to be a design. We should definitely try this again later. But for now we need to at least focus on "stop losing"

Personally, I think:
1.) We can afford to lose in the jungle this round if we gain in another.
2.) If we lose this round, we need to win next combat phase which is not a bet I'm willing to make.
3.) With the right revision, we can likely hold our ground in the jungle, buying time.
4.) In the seas we need to start winning as soon as possible since they're getting advantages from it and we're getting disadvantages.
Therefore, we need to make a revision that'll help in both theaters.

Just... not cheaper frost towers. We need something actually useful. Actually, I'm just going to do:
Revision: Standardized HC1-E Manufacturing
(This doesn't change the name of the HC1-E)
Our mathemagicians have decided that instead of making costly calculations, mistakes, and other time-consuming actions every single time a HC1-E is produced, we can standardize the process. Tools of a standardized measurement are distributed to the workers making the cannons, allowing them to quickly judge what needs to be done. Tools are developed that expedite many processes in making the cannon and compress lots of individual actions into one use of the tool. We've also started training more workers but with less training each to work on the cannons. Instead of a single skilled craftsmen, a cannon will have three or more workers at a time working on individual aspects. Training three workers in three parts is easier than fully training one worker in the whole process.
The result is that we'll be able to manufacture HC1-E's at a much higher rate.

The SO1-AM was designed to let us hold the ground or maybe even start advancing in the jungle while giving us with a smaller but still very nice boost at sea that could be capitalized on by a steam engine revision. But now we probably need to focus on something that's going to help both at sea and land. Hence the cheaper cannons - they'll help a lot in the jungle and at sea.
I know this would possibly be made obsolete from a new cannon design, but:
1.) Making HC1-E's cheaper would likely give a bonus to the Expense roll for a new cannon
2.) If we don't have the SO1-AM, then we need a cheap cannon now.
3.) We don't necessarily have to design a cannon next turn. (I for one am leaving my decision on what to design next round based on what happens this combat phase. For some reason, I didn't account "RNG still hates us" in my plans.)


I'm without a doubt going to be trying for the SO1-AM again soon-ish, as it'll have a significant boost to designing considering the good ol' "learning from your failures". Though I doubt it's going to pass since people almost definitely are going to associate the bad rolls version with the design itself.
Quote
Revisions :
1 - Standardized HC1-E Manufacturing (Cheaper HC1-E's): Chiefwaffles
1 - (Andres)Cheaper Frost Towers: Andres
0 - (Roboson)Reverse fireball:
1 - (10ebbor10)Magic Condensor : 10ebbor10
0 - (RAM)Summon water:
0 - (RAM)Dogwizard Staves:
0 - (RAM)College of mathemagical manipulation, methods, and misuse:
Orders :
2 - Operation Exhaustion : 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles
Also RAM I'm not a huge fan of putting the design authors next to the design name. It crowds it up, and feels irrelevant - people should be caring about the design and not the person who proposed it.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2011 on: May 05, 2017, 09:45:56 pm »

Flame Turbine :  One day one of our apprentices asked a question that stunned the assembly. After having been punished for insulting the intelligence of his superiors, his question took the Academy by storm. "Why do we use water in the first place?" It turns out, this was a question none could answer, for there was no real good reason. The result in a steam engine, but without steam.

The engine has been opened at one. Here, one or more apprentices throw our modified fireball spells into the machine (we can throw fireballs, so we can push them into the machine). The rapidly heating air expands enormously (which is what normally cause the fireball to explode) pushing the turbine faster and faster. Finally, the remainder of the flame bursts out of the exhaust stack. Some have suggested using this flame to power a conventional steam engine, but that is not within our powers at present.

My original cannon design ran along the same principle, but for some reason we decided to go with the steam version.
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RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2012 on: May 05, 2017, 11:55:57 pm »

Would an air-turbine help? I am under the impression that they run hotter, so materials could be a problem. I don't see the absolute speed being much of a limiter to us, and running faster would again bring up material limitations. And steam is easier to pressurise, I think that energy is our primary limiting factor so losing the water seems like a step backwards...

If we really want jets then we could revisit my pulse-jet idea...

Wikipaedia talks about reactive armour. and someone seems to have snuck in some armour, which is awesome!

A thingy I made to explain how the crystalwood tree would provide effective armour.
Against the fire, a depth of wood is flash-heated and explodes, throwing the fire away.
Against brute force, it breaks and explodes at the point of impact, and presses against the backing plate across its whole length. It generates additional force, but spreads that across a large area behind, and focuses it to push the intruding object away at the front.
Against a penetrating bolt, it pushes from both the front and the sides, a bit like catching a sword with your fingers, except plausible...
Against itself, it doesn't actually generate enough force to destroy itself, a large impact will destroy enough to destroy the surroundings, but those surrounds will destroy a smaller area, and after that a still smaller are, until it lacks the power trigger any explosions at all. It DOES chain-react, but not perpetually, so it won't completely vaporise on a single hit.
And it is still wood, it doesn't explode until it breaks, and breaking it absorbs energy, so it protects much as normal wood does.

And as far as wood-versus fire? Fire is anti-everything. But this is about as antifire as possible. If smothering a fire, and given the choice between three blankets, one foil, one wool, and one stone slab, which do you use? The stone slab will likely still let air in because it isn't flexible. The wool blanket will not propagate the fire, and is perfect, even though it will be damaged, the foil blanket will depending upon the intensity of the flame and the depth of the foil, catch fire and burn the everything ever with raging fury. Things that are anti-fire are things that the given fire cannot handle, which is nothing because the fire is subject to change with enemy action, and things which do not propagate the combustion reaction, which would include this particular design, even though it is wood...
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 12:04:52 am by RAM »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2013 on: May 06, 2017, 12:17:14 am »

Personally I think the most important thing is cheaper or less delicate Fog-O-Wars. The magic condenser proposed by ebbor is a cheaper steam engine (I think) and more power. I'm assuming this would just lead to a faster Fog-O-War which I don't personally think is the highest priority.
Right now we match them in speed and in range with our Fog-O-Wars. Normally our boats are durable, but the Fog-O-War isn't thanks to how heavy the steam engines are. Just making the steam engines lighter would result in a lighter fog-o-war which means it'd have better agility, a tiny bit better speed (honestly not sure if this actually matters), and most importantly, our Fog-O-Wars would be a lot less delicate. Normally our boats tank multiple shots (less-so but still true with their fire shots) but the Fog-O-Wars just sink after one shot because of how heavy they are.

So, benefits of lighter steam engines:
1.) Our Fog-O-Wars will be a lot more durable.
2.) It leads to more possibilities in the future - lighter steam engines could be used for more things.
3.) It would makes our fog-o-wars more agile and faster, though by how much is unknown.


Hence I propose the...
Revision: Optimized Steam Engines (Lighter steam engines)
It turns out that our steam engines are unoptimal for their sizes. Many components of the steam engine almost look like they're carved out from the heaviest stone possible. After the mathemagician in charge of this previously was "questioned", our mathemagicians have come up with much better ways to go about this.
Instead of simply relying on "LOTS OF METAL" to keep parts of the steam engine from exploding, a bit more clever use of the more modern and civilized mathemagics can find methods of reinforcement that cost much less material, and are thus much more lighter. The choice of materials in various parts of the engine have been revisited, and it's been found that there are many parts which use materials that are simply just overkill. These parts can be replaced with materials of a lower strength without any decrease in reliability, power, or any other good statistic of the steam engine.

The result is a much lighter steam engine that also adheres to the Arstotzkan Mathemagical Standards Act of 930. The project leads also tell us they think it could be cheaper in addition to being light, but right now if their project is approved, they'll be focusing on making it light first, then cheap second.


Quote
NOTE: PLEASE QUOTE THIS INSTEAD OF COPY+PASTING, SO YOU DON'T LOSE THE LINKS!
Revisions :
1 - Optimized Steam Engines (Lighter Steam Engines): Chiefwaffles
1 - Standardized HC1-E Manufacturing (Cheaper HC1-E's): Chiefwaffles
1 - (Andres)Cheaper Frost Towers: Andres
0 - (Roboson)Reverse fireball:
1 - (10ebbor10)Magic Condensor : 10ebbor10
0 - (RAM)Summon water:
0 - (RAM)Dogwizard Staves:
0 - (RAM)College of mathemagical manipulation, methods, and misuse:
Orders :
2 - Operation Exhaustion : 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles
I've already posted my reasons for the HC1-E revision, and am presenting this as an alternative option. I think both are good choices.

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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2014 on: May 06, 2017, 03:27:29 am »

Why not just increase the durability of our Frost Towers? Not sure what they're made of now, but if we played them in iron (or made them out of iron) then they're not going to go down so easily.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2015 on: May 06, 2017, 03:28:44 am »

We're losing at sea and frost towers explicitly do not work at sea.
Just want to point that out.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2016 on: May 06, 2017, 04:38:38 am »

Quote
The magic condenser proposed by ebbor is a cheaper steam engine (I think) and more power.

Cheaper, Lighter, more power, more durable.

All the issues with our steam engine can be tied to the same specific problem, hence why I'm comfortable we can make big changes without being in trouble.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2017 on: May 06, 2017, 04:50:00 am »

I'd be happy voting for it if you make it being lighter more explicit in the design post. From your design post, all I can get from it is still Power (#1 and #2 in your list) and Cheaper (#3). I'm fine with trying to fit the rest in a revision, but I still think lightness is the biggest issue here.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2018 on: May 06, 2017, 04:54:56 am »

Quote
Revisions :
1 - Standardized HC1-E Manufacturing (Cheaper HC1-E's): Chiefwaffles
1 - (Andres)Cheaper Frost Towers: Andres
0 - (Roboson)Reverse fireball:
2 - (10ebbor10)Magic Condensor : 10ebbor10, Andrea
0 - (RAM)Summon water:
0 - (RAM)Dogwizard Staves:
0 - (RAM)College of mathemagical manipulation, methods, and misuse:
Orders :
2 - Operation Exhaustion : 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles

Well, he specifies that it is cheaper because it doesn't need to mount the cooling loop and therefore saves metal. Less metal means lighter as well. Plus, more powerful can mean a smaller more compact design for the same power I guess?
Also, I really really want that frost condenser spell to work. Will be very useful in all steam techs.

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2019 on: May 06, 2017, 04:59:39 am »

I added a few words showing that the condensor is supposed to be lighter.
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stabbymcstabstab

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2020 on: May 06, 2017, 08:00:44 am »


Quote
Revisions :
1 - Standardized HC1-E Manufacturing (Cheaper HC1-E's): Chiefwaffles
1 - (Andres)Cheaper Frost Towers: Andres
0 - (Roboson)Reverse fireball:
3 - (10ebbor10)Magic Condensor : 10ebbor10, Andrea, Stabby
0 - (RAM)Summon water:
0 - (RAM)Dogwizard Staves:
0 - (RAM)College of mathemagical manipulation, methods, and misuse:
Orders :
3 - Operation Exhaustion : 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles, Stabby

You know we should had ignored anti-magic shells and made magic-seeking shells instead. That would have equalized the playing field.
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andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2021 on: May 06, 2017, 08:13:36 am »

that... is actually a good idea.

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2022 on: May 06, 2017, 08:28:47 am »

The result would have been equally, if not more, garbage.
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2023 on: May 06, 2017, 08:29:44 am »

You know we should had ignored anti-magic shells and made magic-seeking shells instead. That would have equalized the playing field.
Our cannons work with magic. Our mist is made of magic. Our Frost Towers are made of magic.
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stabbymcstabstab

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2024 on: May 06, 2017, 08:38:06 am »

You know we should had ignored anti-magic shells and made magic-seeking shells instead. That would have equalized the playing field.
Our cannons work with magic. Our mist is made of magic. Our Frost Towers are made of magic.
It's not like they are going to do a 180 and 90 degree turns, they would drift mod flight towards magic sources in front of them.
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"Wanna be a better liberal? Go get shot in the fuckin' face."
Contemplate why we have a sociopathic necrophiliac RAPIST sadomasochist bipolar monster in our ranks, also find some cheese.
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