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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 392801 times)

evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1815 on: May 02, 2017, 08:06:14 am »

I'm going to go with no; the existing NE tower was cannibalized to build your VE towers. 

Edit: they have seen your cannons up close, but couldnt use them even if they captured them due to the firespell needed.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 08:08:51 am by evictedSaint »
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Azzuro

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1816 on: May 02, 2017, 09:02:10 am »

Guys, why ever did you vote for the frost tower revision? We didn't need it, and now the only other National Effort is the OBSOLETE Wand of Fireballs. Ugh.

Quote
Trader Actions
0 - Give him Dogwood Wands+Tree:
0 - Give him more Crystal Weapons+Apprentice:
0 - Give him Everything:
5 - Send Everything including Roboson: Roboson, Azzuro, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles, Stabby
1 - The viking way: RAM
1 - Send Everything including Roboson and contingency: Andres


3 - Attack plains w/ primarily cavalry: Chiefwaffles, Roboson, Stabby
2 - Attack Eastern Sea: RAM, Roboson
1 - Send Myark to the Mountains: Azzuro

Orders
0 - Deploy frost towers at sea:
1 - Deploy Forever Frost along coast AND at sea if no penalty: Roboson

Voting for Sending Myark to the Mountains. We need to kick out those Moskurgs quick, then we can revise our cannons and steamships to be cheaper. Oh, and removed Andres' order as we don't have the Tower anymore. And rearranged those things which weren't strictly orders (instructions?) to prevent confusion. There's only the option of ordering the minor towers to be deployed at sea now, which I am voting against.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1817 on: May 02, 2017, 09:30:30 am »

Quote
Guys, why ever did you vote for the frost tower revision? We didn't need it, and now the only other National Effort is the OBSOLETE Wand of Fireballs. Ugh.

Because national efforts have multiple drawbacks. One is that it can only ever be used in one place. With this, we make it possible to deploy it in many places.

Forever frost should decimate the enemy in the plains and mountains. Given it's enormous (50 miles!) range it shouldn't be within range of the enemy artillery and can nicely lower temperatures. For reference, this us what happened to Napoleon.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Our frost tower is stronger, and the Moskurgians are even less equipped for this than Napoleon's forces where. The concept of supply chains has not been invented yet, everyone still lives from what they gather.

Our firces will probably take casualties, but we have a whole supply of fireball magic, and we can instant grow edible food from the ground. Hence, we will nit be hampered.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 09:48:14 am by 10ebbor10 »
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1818 on: May 02, 2017, 09:42:54 am »

Minor Fireballs were Expensive iirc and the goal was to get Cheap Fireballs your apprentices could cast.  The other type of Fireball was Very Expensive and had moral penalties.  That's why you made Minor Fireballs in the first place.
The goal was to get cheaper Fireballs. That is, turning the Very Expensive Fireballs into Expensive Fireballs, or perhaps even cheap Fireballs due to it being a full Design rather than a mere Revision. Would've been better to make the Minor Fireballs more powerful in hindsight, but that's what we voted for at the time.

I had assumed that not having a single "shell this one spot here" tower would be beneficial and requiring the enemy to take all the towers to remove the cold penalty would be a good thing and took the liberty of doing so, especially since the tower of frost was built as close to the front lines as possible anyways.  If that's an issue then the towers can all be built together in one spot and form a single tower again.
Wait...please don't tell me you're saying we can't have the Tower of Forever Frost and the Minor Towers at the same time. The entire point of the Revision was so that we can have the full effect of the Tower of Forever Frost in multiple regions. It's pointless to have them in multiple regions if doing so splits their power.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 09:44:48 am by Andres »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1819 on: May 02, 2017, 09:45:07 am »

Pretty sure the GM means we can have multiple mini-towers equal to 1 maxi-tower in each province.

Just that we can't stack the coolness of the mini-tower with the maxi-tower, which would probably be fairly OP.
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1820 on: May 02, 2017, 09:47:04 am »

Pretty sure the GM means we can have multiple mini-towers equal to 1 maxi-tower in each province.

Just that we can't stack the coolness of the mini-tower with the maxi-tower, which would probably be fairly OP.

This, thank you

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1821 on: May 02, 2017, 09:53:42 am »

Pretty sure the GM means we can have multiple mini-towers equal to 1 maxi-tower in each province.

Just that we can't stack the coolness of the mini-tower with the maxi-tower, which would probably be fairly OP.

This, thank you
Ok, this is a big relief. Thanks.

Guys, why ever did you vote for the frost tower revision?
Pay some attention when we're explaining this stuff. This is the third time I'm saying this so pay attention this time. If we could get multiple frost towers, we can continue getting the strong buff in the Jungle from our current tower AND kill every single Moskurg in the mountains by making it too cold for them to live. Better artillery or whatever would've given us an advantage, but it wouldn't have eliminated the entire Moskurg military presence in a region quarter. A sufficient amount of frost towers WILL, especially in the Mountains where it is already naturally cold.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 09:55:44 am by Andres »
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Azzuro

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1822 on: May 02, 2017, 09:56:14 am »

Hm. I still maintain that the cheaper HC1-E's would have been a better revision, but the frost tower doesn't seem as bad as I was thinking. Maybe a better revision would be a tower of Clear Skies - using our knowledge of the mystical 'condensation' to preemptively clear the skies of clouds, as the snow and rain seem to be falling exclusively on our forces, while Moskurg is only affected by solely the cold and not the dampness ruining their equipment, so a historical comparison isn't that accurate.

Still, next turn we should continue working on our cannons. I'm thinking of a scrying spell to allow us to cloak our artillery batteries fully in fog, while the revision is spent on cheapening the cannons.

EDIT: Andres, I get it, no need to be snippy.
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1823 on: May 02, 2017, 10:01:09 am »

Maybe a better revision would be a tower of Clear Skies - using our knowledge of the mystical 'condensation' to preemptively clear the skies of clouds, as the snow and rain seem to be falling exclusively on our forces, while Moskurg is only affected by solely the cold and not the dampness ruining their equipment, so a historical comparison isn't that accurate.
Their lightning is diminished because snow clouds - caused by the Tower of Forever Frost - fraks that up. Clear Skies would remove their lightning, but it would also diminish our frost effects. Better for us to design something that is a detriment purely to the enemy.

EDIT: Andres, I get it, no need to be snippy.
It was the third time I had to explain it, and I believe you already asked before. You can understand why I was a bit snippy.

Glory to Arstotzka.
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Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1824 on: May 02, 2017, 03:00:55 pm »

I for one am pretty happy with our new towers of frost. Now we should be able to actually hit them with our icy weather instead of just a creeping cold.

Edit: I mean now Myark has nothing to do, the enemy is likely to destroy the towers immediately with their Greek fire homing missiles, we can't use half our spells, and our men are sniped by magical means before even seeing battle. But the towers are cool I guess. Wow I just bummed myself out hardcore.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 03:08:25 pm by Roboson »
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1825 on: May 02, 2017, 03:24:01 pm »

I for one am pretty happy with our new towers of frost. Now we should be able to actually hit them with our icy weather instead of just a creeping cold.
Yep, we're all pretty happy with the new towers now that everything's been clarified. We can apply Forever Frost levels of cold to all three provinces, we can do so without Myark, and it's harder for Moskurg to destroy the enchantment.

Edit: I mean now Myark has nothing to do, the enemy is likely to destroy the towers immediately with their Greek fire homing missiles, we can't use half our spells, and our men are sniped by magical means before even seeing battle. But the towers are cool I guess. Wow I just bummed myself out hardcore.
Myark has hordes of Moskurgs for him to roast to death with fireballs and stuff and the enemy almost certainly does not have artillery with a range of 80.5 km, so they won't be blowing them up immediately any time soon. We have the Mountains on lock because of the new towers and Myark may be enough to hold the Moskurg tide in the Jungle.

Glory to Arstotzka.
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Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1826 on: May 02, 2017, 03:32:43 pm »

Unless Myark gets sniped because we haven't done anything to stop their perfect accuracy...
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1827 on: May 02, 2017, 03:45:44 pm »

The Ballistae should be highly troubled by the weather. As a torsion powered weapon, they should be suffering severely from all sorts of failures.

Tensile thoughness decreases dramatically with temperature, and it's exactly in that way that their weapons store energy. Our weapons will have similar issues, but far less severe. Not only will the heat of the boiler prevent the weapon from freezing completely, our weapon does not store it's energy in tensile strength. The barrel merely has to survive.

Also, their operators will freeze to dead.

I'm counting on the latter more than the former, really.
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RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1828 on: May 02, 2017, 04:10:00 pm »

we've seen in these last few turns, a lot of designs have been proposed and we've had some ties, some vast majorities, and some designs that only get one vote. Typically the vote of the proposer. To prevent someone for voting for the idea they think is most appropriate stifles the process (a process which is not broken and doesn't need fixing by the way).
I really fail to see your reasoning here. As far as I can tell, if it only got a vote from its proposer, then it was either a bad idea for the time, impractical, misunderstood genius, or a victim of politics. No matter how you look at it, they almost certainly could have spent their vote better, and were probably dulled by much the same phenomena that renders proof-reading more effective if you give it some time to become less familiar. Ties, on the other hand, are more likely with fewer voters, which is precisely why we would benefit from reducing the single-votes for a personal project. Instead of five different proposals with one vote each, you will tend to get one with three and one with two and everything else with nothing because when you take away the appeal of it being your own product, and the magic of it being exactly what you thought of to deal with things, there isn't enough left for anyone else to think it is the best proposal.

Basically, every time that a proposal gets only the vote of its proposer, I feel that we see a vote that might have been spent to get a result that they wanted instead of buoying something that is not going to happen. They would, themselves, benefit, if everyone does it. And every tie that could be broken by all the proposers taking away their self-vote and putting it in as a best-of-the-rest vote is an example of freeing up votes that are spread out in order to focus them down to the consensually-agreed "pretty good" proposals. If you still get a tie after all the votes are directed to just a couple of ideas, then you have a tie because those ideas are really close in preference, and there really isn't much that can be done about that without restricting people's ability to express themselves...

Voting against attacking the eastern theatres. They have a combat bonus there due to controlling the Eastern Sea, so we'll be throwing away our men for nothing. Unless taking them by surprise counts for a lot.
I think that we should hit the sea to stop them from pushing into our own sea and cutting off our sea bonus on the tundra... Breaking their horsies would be fun if we can do it quickly, so I am on the fence about the plains.

Oh, Waffles! You were asking about something to defeat their luck magic. If you don't mind my asking, what is wrong with my antiluck charms?
 The idea of rendering our important forces completely luckless seems like it would work. I mean, how can you say that randomly being the only person in the whole unit to get a rock land on you due to magical influence being anything other than magically-afflicted bad-luck? I mean, sure, they only cast the spell on their own people, but it has repercussions on our own luck and reasonably couldn't exist if our own luck didn't exist, all without actually needing to learn how to manipulate luck directly, rather just tweaking our brute-suction charms from the 'visible spectrum' of magic to the 'microwaves' of luck. Which presumably must exist because otherwise how would luck magic even work... And then we can revise in some statistical analysis to reduce the effect of equipment failures as exploding boilers stop being a matter of blind luck and start being a matter of complex patterns that can be somewhat predicted...
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1829 on: May 02, 2017, 04:36:25 pm »

Could someone kindly compile the list of attack locations and orders with accompanying votes?  I'll be able to update soon.

-----

Consider this:  rather than proposing two things and immediately adding them to the list of votes, you can propose two things and for either of them to be added to the list you need two people to "second" each one.

This prevents the list from inflating with zero and one vote items because you need at least two other people to go "this is a good idea".  They don't have to vote for it, they just need to agree that it is a relevant and practical idea.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 04:37:59 pm by evictedSaint »
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