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[stabbymcstabstab]

Yeah a fireball itself isn't magical it's just a giant ball of condensed fire that's under a great deal of pressure that breaks when and unleashes everything when it hits something so it's not affected. The best way to view anti-magic is as if it's Antimatter, if for instance if you take anti-hydrogen(anti-magic) and release it, it won't interact with oxygen or carbon but when it interacts with hydrogen(magic) it combines with it and annihilate both itself and the hydrogen(magic) atom. so the best way I would see to stop that from happening is simple to either overpower it or find a different type of magic "atom".


so steam/fireball cannon is our best bet. or I guess we could make black powder that was discovered by now.

[Tyrant Leviathan]

Well black powder Weapons would honestly suck worse than fire balls as a Cannon. As bombs and such then yes. Just not in this department.

[stabbymcstabstab]

if we did start using black powder it would probably be used in exploding ammunition or traps since we corner the market on fire and could use it to our advantage. but unless we get the advantage again we should avoid it unless we're desperate.

[Chiefwaffles]

We haven't discovered black powder yet. Just if some nation in the world has it, doesn't mean we have it. And I doubt Evicted would take "Design: Discover black powder" or "Design: Send a fleet of the ships in search of a black powdery substance that explodes that we just happen to know about".
That and regarding mines, exploding ammunition, and traps: Well we already have mines and exploding ammunition: anti-magic bombs. They're just one revision away from having timers, too. Runes are also a magic thing which would be far easier and more effective than black powder.

Also, generally in my opinion, shooting literal fireballs out of cannon via magic and steam power >>>>>>> a regular cannon

[Chiefwaffles]

Doublepost because I'm getting tired of adding irrelevant edits to my previous posts.

Idea for revision after we get the design results: Concentrated Fireballs(/Magic) - Basically let our wizards cast fireballs (or any magic) even in Moskurgian anti-magic fields. The stuff in parenthesis is because while it'd be nice, I don't think adapting all our spells to work in anti-magic fields is in the scope of a revision. This could be kind of like a test run.

Fluff explanation: (This isn't really needed for the revision - it's basically my argument for why this type of thing isn't scrambling in the dark.)
Since the only logical way for their anti-magic fields to work against our anti-magic bombs, they must be unknowingly using a kludge-y form of mathemagics.
See, the only logical way for their anti-magic fields to work against our anti-magic bombs is if they use the same if not a similar principle of anti-magic absorption. I'm assuming they're unknowingly using a kludge-y form of mathemagics. Magical "impurities", if you will, are what cause the fields to be visible to the naked eye.
Since the mathemagics stuff mentioned in designs/revisions/etc. mention wavelengths and the like, what if we could use a technique similar to noise-cancelling? Basically constantly emit a magic "signal" which cancels out their anti-magic "signal".



The hybrid cannon is more important now, though. This is just as an option in case we don't need to revise the cannon. It'd be extremely nice to have, but could be risky to pursue.

[Azzuro]

I totally called the Moskurgites using their revision to make their armour cheaper! Also they seem to have introduced three new things this turn - more ballistae, more armour, and better antimagic, all of which are pretty powerful individually.

I would have preferred not to deploy the Dogwood Mages this turn, or at least limit them to helping out in the homeland only, but what's done is done. Now they definitely know we have nature/plant magic, and will be making designs with that in mind.

Design: Fog-O-War
The final refinement of our prototype steam-powered ship is to supply the water intake via a Channelled Fog spell, thus eliminating the problem of salt building up in the pipes and increasing the efficiency as pure water boils at a lower temperature than seawater. Instead of venting the steam produced, it is captured and condensed, thus helping to solve the problem of the drive belt slipping due to wetness. The new ship is thus named the Arstotzkan Fog-O-War, and with its speed nullifying the Moskurg range advantage, will help us rule the waves in the Western Sea.

I know we are getting pushed back in the Jungle, but we're getting pushed back at sea as well. If the Moskurgites secure the whole Western Sea, then they'll get a bonus to Jungle combat that we'll be hard-pressed to overcome - and we won't even know how close they are to getting that because the territory counter is opaque. We know we have 3 sections of Jungle left, but we don't know how close to losing the Western Sea we are, so it's better to err on the side of caution and finally get that steamship design operational.

With that said, I'm still voting for the hybrid fireball cannon, because I don't vote for my own stuff.

5 - (Chiefwaffles) Hybrid Fireball Cannon: Chiefwaffles, Roboson, Stabby, Tyrant, Azzuro
0 - (Light forger) Crystal Greatbows
0 - (Azzuro) Fog-O-War

[RAM]

5 - (Chiefwaffles) Hybrid Fireball Cannon: Chiefwaffles, Roboson, Stabby, Tyrant, Azzuro
0 - (Light forger) Crystal Greatbows
1 - (Azzuro) Fog-O-War: RAM

And send away our cavalry and mid-level mages. A revision is much more valuable than a single turn of territory lost.

Are all forms of antimagic identical? Or can they have weird interactions...

[VoidSlayer]

+1 to fireball cannon.

6 - (Chiefwaffles) Hybrid Fireball Cannon: Chiefwaffles, Roboson, Stabby, Tyrant, Azzuro, void slayer
0 - (Light forger) Crystal Greatbows
1 - (Azzuro) Fog-O-War: RAM

We could always just use the cannon to launch apprentices into the air and have them shoot fireballs while they sail over the enemy.

[andrea]

Just to be clear, in the cannon design the fireball is used to flash-boil the steam and/or provide extra thrust directly, but the actual projectile is a mundane thing?

[Azzuro]

You might want to ask Chiefwaffles directly as the designer, but from the description it seems to use steam pressure to launch fireballs which are the projectiles. That makes me think that Moskurg could revise their antimagic to dispel fireballs in flight, but it should only take a revision to switch to mundane projectiles.

And for further confusion, our steam engine uses a modified firewall to boil the steam.

[andrea]

I... am not sure fireballs can be propelled that way? and I would really like to have a more mundane way to apply force.
I mean, if all it does is propel fireballs, can't we just revise long range fireballs?

[RAM]

Okay, the only conceivable way that they can project a wave of glow into our antimagic zone is if they are not projecting magic. Well, okay, they could be overpowering us, but there would be at least a little bit of interruption or something, there would have been SOME sort of noticeable effect. Okay, one other option, their antimagic magic is somehow completely immune to external manipulations, even from a non-magical gem-sponge with some semi-magic suction effects... Ugh, the two didn't interact at ALL. It can't be a fake, an illusion would have been sucked up. Unless it was actually a pre-formed manifestation...

Okay, only two ideas seem plausible. They make a cloud of metaphysical no-fun over the battlefield, which takes out everyone's mages so I guess their troops must be vastly superior to ours.

HEY!!! HOW IS THEIR SIEGE GEAR CATCHING OUR TROOPS?!? We can just retreat into the forest just like their ships have been doing for the past forever!

Very stern-eyed order! : withdraw into the deep jungle


We concentrate on dense forests and just withdraw into them. Our cavalry will be off fighting someone else's war so we won't be slowed by horses trying to navigate jungle and we won't be bothering with siege gear so they can leave their almighty ballista that somehow fit on their light ships or the new giant ships we haven't seen in open water somehow. Then we just exploit a new revision to just make the surrounding trees run rampant to give us super-duper stalling-tactics while we focus designs on the sea...

Ahem... Got a little lost there...
Their almost certainly either have a pre-generated cloud of metaphysical no-fun or a, umm, I thought I had something...
If it were active then our charms would drain it. If it were natural then they couldn't control it, as a natural force of no-wizards cannot be controlled by wizards, and these are definitely wizards because they are still casting positive magic, I think, did anyone notice any Moskurger wind? so it is neither an inherent quality of magic, such as our vacuum, nor anything aggressive as that either WOULDN'T interfere with our wizards or WOULD interfere with our charms.

So the problem is that it is pre-generated. So all we need to do is make our own charms more aggressive, make them suck up pre-generated effects somehow, it probably just means turning up the juice to overcome some natural inhibition of magic to move. Then we can suck up all the antimagic and convert the whole cloud into sound as soon as it hits one of our charms...

I would also like to see alternate ammunition in a single design like they did, we could have a carriage filled with fist-sized shot and one with antimagic bombs and one with kegger heads and one with spears... And would also like to second that long0range fireballs could be a revision.

[10ebbor10]

My feeling is that if we try that, the Moskurguans push for the frost tower, destroy it and will then wipe out or forces.

Okay, the only conceivable way that they can project a wave of glow into our antimagic zone

When, exactly, have they done that?

[andrea]

Also, I am not sure there is deep jungle anymore.

[Azzuro]

My feeling is that if we try that, the Moskurguans push for the frost tower, destroy it and will then wipe out or forces.

Okay, the only conceivable way that they can project a wave of glow into our antimagic zone

When, exactly, have they done that?

Did the glowy fields intrude into area protected by our antimagic charms?
  -Yes

Admittedly I don't see how their antimagic could entirely negate our antimagic arrows. Even if they projected antimagic over the fired arrows, the mage won't be able to cast and would need to relocate.

evictedSaint, have we observed Moskurg mages casting within their own antimagic fields, now that we can see the boundaries of the field?

EDIT: Just noticed it was said that no other magic was used within the field in that post, which only furthers my point of why the antimagic arrows are suddenly useless now. They should be stopping the other non-staff wielding Moskurg mages from casting, whether on pain of explosion or their own side's antimagic.

Also, the GM has said that plant magic won't save the Jungle. So congrats, we just wasted a whole turn on something that won't even help us in the theatre with the most plants. The only option is to stop using the Tower of Frost, but that's equally bad.