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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 391787 times)

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1035 on: April 27, 2017, 02:22:20 pm »

I thought our mists were totally useless so far?

They had been made useless once by the winds, but that was solved with the anchored mist.

They haven't shown up since then, but I don't know why.
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Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1036 on: April 27, 2017, 02:35:23 pm »

Ok 10ebbor10, what do you suggest we use our design phase on?
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1037 on: April 27, 2017, 02:35:49 pm »

I thought our mists were totally useless so far?

They had been made useless once by the winds, but that was solved with the anchored mist.

They haven't shown up since then, but I don't know why.

What if we make the battlefield wide mists, then make then super cold, then give our soldiers specially designed anti magic amulets to warm them up?

Tyrant Leviathan

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1038 on: April 27, 2017, 02:36:32 pm »

Honestly we cannot do new lines of magic. What everyone has said.
I vote we make magic crystal force fields to save our mages and commanders from the sniping. After the jungle is secured, we branch out.
Set of my designs for navy.

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1039 on: April 27, 2017, 02:50:19 pm »

My proposal is and remains the same.

Quote
Obscuring Mists : A mist spell, more powerful and larger than any previous mists spells. It can cover an entire battlefield, and will prevent any attempt from enemies beyond to see or aim at those within, even by magical means.

1) Can it be countered :
       - Not by wind, because it's anchored;
       - Not by anti-magic, because Moskurgian antimagic relies on their wand wearing wizards to get close. By the time they do, the mist has served it's purpose.
       - Not by magic detection, because it's designed against it.
2) What will it accomplish :
       - Negate Moskurgian Siege artillery advantage
       - Negate Moskurgian ranged advantage
       - Negate Moskurgian Sniping
       - Negate Moskurgian formation tactics

A limited, viable design based on existing designs, that should force the battles into our favor.


« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 02:53:36 pm by 10ebbor10 »
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Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1040 on: April 27, 2017, 02:52:52 pm »

If we could get mines or something like that, that would really help us hold the jungle and keep their horse archers at bay. Won't really help at sea, but it would help us hold the jungle and all our other positions.

Edit:
My proposal is and remains the same.

Quote
Obscuring Mists : A mist spell, more powerful and larger than any previous mists spells. It can cover an entire battlefield, and will prevent any attempt from enemies beyond to see or aim at those within, even by magical means.

1) Can it be countered :
       - Not by wind, because it's anchored;
       - Not by anti-magic, because Moskurgian antimagic relies on their wand wearing wizards to get close. By the time they do, the mist has served it's purpose.
       - Not by magic detection, because it's designed against it.
2) What will it accomplish :
       - Negate Moskurgian ranged advantage
       - Negate Moskurgian Sniping
       - Negate Moskurgian formation tactics

A limited, viable design based on existing designs, that should force the battles into our favor.

I'm not convinced it would protect us a whole lot, since they still have that lucky strike advantage (which is probably how they're hitting our commanders with horribly inaccurate long range siege weapons). It could help, but unless I missed something, our mist  doesn't actually stop their magic.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 02:56:14 pm by Roboson »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1041 on: April 27, 2017, 03:07:07 pm »

Quote
If we could get mines or something like that, that would really help us hold the jungle and keep their horse archers at bay.

The only mines we have would be magic powered, and if we could use anti-magic powered mines against cavalry we would just use our crystal caltrops.

Quote
I'm not convinced it would protect us a whole lot, since they still have that lucky strike advantage (which is probably how they're hitting our commanders with horribly inaccurate long range siege weapons). It could help, but unless I missed something, our mist  doesn't actually stop their magic.

The entire point is to actually design a new mist that actually counters their lucky strike.

Quote
Obscuring Mists : A mist spell, more powerful and larger than any previous mists spells. It can cover an entire battlefield, and will prevent any attempt from enemies beyond to see or aim at those within, even by magical means.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 03:10:22 pm by 10ebbor10 »
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Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1042 on: April 27, 2017, 03:16:47 pm »

Quote
I'm not convinced it would protect us a whole lot, since they still have that lucky strike advantage (which is probably how they're hitting our commanders with horribly inaccurate long range siege weapons). It could help, but unless I missed something, our mist  doesn't actually stop their magic.

The entire point is to actually design a new mist that actually counters their lucky strike.

Quote
Obscuring Mists : A mist spell, more powerful and larger than any previous mists spells. It can cover an entire battlefield, and will prevent any attempt from enemies beyond to see or aim at those within, even by magical means.

Hmmmm, but that's two very new things. It's much much larger and selectively immune to magic. It could probably be done with a design and a revision, but so could most endeavors we choose to follow.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1043 on: April 27, 2017, 03:19:29 pm »

So the solution could be further propagating anti-magic. If the enemy can't cast spells, they can't cast heir lucky strike thing then their ranged effectiveness is severely reduced.
Hence anti-magic bombs.

Things we can do to improve them:
- Timer
- Design an IFF ("identification friend foe") system and deploy it to anti-magic devices. Basic idea is a hidden "identifier" aspect to our spells that lets anti-magic selectively ignore it. Probably via mathematics. The advantages are clear: We would be able to use our own magic while in our anti-magic fields, and anti-magic bombs won't explode from our own magic. The system can also be used for a variety of other things in the future. So to summarize: It helps anti-magic charms AND bombs and has great possibilities to the future.
- Cheapen them. This is a revision action, not a design action though.
- Improve anti-magic bombs to leave a lingering anti-magic field upon explosion through shards of still-active anti-magic crystal crystal being left in the blast radius. This could probably do better as a revision though.
- Anti-magic mines. Self explanatory. A much more explodey non-arrow anti-magic bomb. Though I think this is best left until we enact the IFF design or a similar solution to not blow ourselves up.

The following quote only includes the suggestions from this post because I'm on my phone and don't want to bother finding every other action. If people actually used it more effectively gen this wouldn't be a problem.
Quote
0 - (Anti-magic) "IFF System":
0 - Anti-magic bomb lingering anti-magic fields:
0 - Anti-magic mines:
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Light forger

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1044 on: April 27, 2017, 04:00:06 pm »

My suggestions for this turn

Attunement Rods
A simple rod with a crystal on the top designed to 'attune' anti-magic charms and anti-magic arrows. All a mage needs to do is use some of his magic on the rod to attune it. The rod is able to hold multiple attunements at a time. Once this is done the rod simply needs to be brought into contact with an anti-magic gem and will cause it to no longer drain magic from anyone the rod was attuned by.

Crystal Tower Shields
Designed to be the first mass scale use of crystal creation. The gem is placed in the middle of a normal shield and at the whim of the user creates a large and sturdy but, surprising light tower shield able to completely protect the user. Once the user engages in melee combat and dispels it or enters an enemy dispelling field he is still left with a perfectly usable shield. Another useful trait the shield is fairly clear letting out field commanders observe the battlefield safely from behind it.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1045 on: April 27, 2017, 04:13:03 pm »

Hmmmm, but that's two very new things. It's much much larger and selectively immune to magic. It could probably be done with a design and a revision, but so could most endeavors we choose to follow.

Being bigger is hardly new, it's a simple extension of the spell. I can remove it if you insist.

Our current mist spell can be cast by apprentices, and covers 1 Squad. Since there is st least 1 apprentice per 5 squads, and apprentices can do several spells, they can cover the enemy.

On a side note, how about this idea.

Saboteurs : Supply lines are everything. These small squads of apprentices will be deployed behind enemy lines (what are the Moskurgians going to do, run away?) or by sneaking past. Once past the active lines of battle they can use their flame spells to devastating effect against any wooden and flammqble infrastructure. Ships can not sail from destroyed ports and soldiers will not march without food.

Quote
So the solution could be further propagating anti-magic. If the enemy can't cast spells, they can't cast heir lucky strike thing then their ranged effectiveness is severely reduced.
Hence anti-magic bombs

The anti magic bombs face at least 3 Moskurgian hard counters. They were a mistake.

Quote
1 Obscuring Mists 10ebbor10

In order to keep the vote simple, I decided to only include stuff that was actually voted upon. Otherwise we end up with 2 dozen  proposals cluttering everything up.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 04:17:01 pm by 10ebbor10 »
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stabbymcstabstab

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1046 on: April 27, 2017, 04:16:50 pm »

1 - Steam Cannon: Stabby
1 - (Anti-magic) "IFF System": Stabby
0 - Anti-magic bomb lingering anti-magic fields:
0 - Anti-magic mines:
0 - Attunement Rods:
0 - Crystal Tower Shields;
0 - Obscuring Mists:
0 - Variable Crystal Weapons:
0 - Fireball arrows:
0 -Earth Elemental Control - Construction:
0 - Saboteurs

These are all I found, can some one check it for missing suggestions and votes?


Edit: those anti-magic bomb aren't a mistake. If we can make them cheaper with the "IFF" they would be a full on horror to their mages.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 04:18:37 pm by stabbymcstabstab »
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Long Live Arst- United Forenia!
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Contemplate why we have a sociopathic necrophiliac RAPIST sadomasochist bipolar monster in our ranks, also find some cheese.

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1047 on: April 27, 2017, 04:18:30 pm »

You forgot mine.

Quote from: Clutter free list
1 - Steam Cannon: Stabby
1 - (Anti-magic) "IFF System": Stabby
1 - Obscuring Mists: 10ebbor10
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1048 on: April 27, 2017, 04:23:22 pm »

I'm sorry, did you just not read the combat report explicitly stating how effective they are?
What are these supposed hard counters anyways?

@Stabby: Nice work on the compiling. I feel I may as well support attunement rods for now. I would vote for my IFF thing but I think self-voting is slightly frowned upon. So I'll re-evaluate that later. Probably will end up voting for it. 
Quote
1 - Steam Cannon: Stabby
1 - (Anti-magic) "IFF System": Stabby
1 - Attunement Rods: Chiefwaffles
1 - Obscuring Mists: 10ebbor10
0 - Anti-magic bomb lingering anti-magic fields:
0 - Anti-magic mines:
0 - Crystal Tower Shields;
0 - Obscuring Mists:
0 - Variable Crystal Weapons:
0 - Fireball arrows:
0 -Earth Elemental Control - Construction:
0 - Saboteurs
I assume "sell crystal weapons" is pretty much default unless someone explicitly votes against it so I didn't include it.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1049 on: April 27, 2017, 04:26:13 pm »

Design: Living Shields
There is no mistaking it. The fire wasps do not occur in nature and were made to our specifications, so they do not seem to have come from any extant population from beyond nature. The conjuration creates actual living beings, albeit temporary. They have instincts, purpose, and discretion. Let us focus upon this and amplify it to a very specific purpose, to persist! We have seen that the enemy spell nullifies the very concept of magic within its influence, so we give that concept the strength and tenacity to will itself into our mundane world regardless of what the weak-willed Keggers impose.

We mathemagically analyse the summon fire wasp spell to its component parts and rework their 'attack' aspect into a 'metaphysical persistence' aspect that allows them to directly counter attempts to dispel them at a fundamental level. We then take existing gem-crystal magic to provide this will with a reservoir of magic with which to defend itself.

We then use existing crystal-forging magic to imbue this effect into a crystal shield thick enough to resist their new hail of spears attack and light enough to be carried.

And then try to tag on a bit of magic-sense and will to "Proudly serve the Arstozkan homeland!" to have them compel their wielder to place them into the path of incoming threats, but this is low-priority.

Design: Codpiece-Rippers
The name is an unfortunate tale. It started with an unwillingness to use something obvious, loitered in tales of high piracy on the open seas, dove into bawdy romances, then took a turn for the offensively rebellious... The design, however, is for a larger longship. With two steam-plants and four oar-wheels(named paddle to some), it implements gemwork and systems from the forever frost tower to enhance the reliability and control of the spells but primarily implements a system of gears and belts to not only force the steam-power onto the mechanisms but also allow external power to be applied. Essentially, there are four rows of spokes which can be gripped and pulled in a motion similar to that of rowing to apply additional force to the oar-wheels. We no longer need to choose between steam and manpower, but can implement both! The key here is the complex gear systems that allow multiple input sources and alternate power->speed ratios. We also took the time to implement some obvious body-work, such as copper-cladding to increase hardness, a large ram with which to break any puny kegger vessels it strikes, and a forecastle to better besiege enemies. There are concerns about its ability to steer, but its insult-power is unmatched.

And, umm, resize the turbine? That sounds good...

Design: Plant-growth
 By magically imbuing them with vitality-infused magic we stimulate the sudden growth of flora. It can be used for impromptu fortifications, knotted and spiky footing, or even cause tree-branches and roots to burst into enemy formations with far more force(though perhaps greatly lacking in speed) than required to pierce a dozen armoured horses.

Design: Permanent conjuration
 With our magic being unmade, we must do what has defeated us so often in the past, and make fully mundane that which we conjure from myth.

Design: Pillar of unmagic
By focusing all of our mathemagical and trigothaumical developments, along with our experience of the forever frost towers, we construct a great tower with an intricate core of quartz, with dimond studding on key locations allowing exposed magical pathways which permit fine control of the effect. This is, in essence, a giant antimagic charm, but capable of detailed attunement. It will, with careful handling and a large amount of time spent measuring its effects and trial-and-erroring precisely what is needed, be able to select a single spell and absorb all instances of it within a single theatre of battle.

Quote from: designs
1 steam cannon: Stabby
1 Obscuring Mists: shameless10ebor10
0 Timed Bomb Arrows :
0 Variable Crystal Weapons :
0 Fireball arrows :
0 Earth Elemental Control :
1 - (Anti-magic) "IFF System": Stabbyx2
0 - Anti-magic bomb lingering anti-magic fields:
0 - Anti-magic mines:
2 Attunement Rods: RAM Chiefwaffles
0 Crystal Tower Shields:
0 Saboteurs :
0 Design: Living Shields:
0 Design: Codpiece-Rippers:
0 Plant-growth:
0 Permanent conjuration:
0 Pillar of unmagic:
Quote from: orders
1?Sell the Crystal Axes: shameless?
1 Use channelled fog: shamelessRAM
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 05:25:17 pm by RAM »
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
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