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[NUKE9.13]

To be clear, I don't think flaming ammunition is a bad idea. The main reason I prefer Gale Stones is that the title says 'Wands Race', so given two options of otherwise equal merit (which I think they are), I prefer the magical one.

[Madman198237]

@Taricus, since NUKE ninja'd me.
I agree. That would be a hilariously useful development. So, let's say we try this: We devise the fire projectiles first. I believe that they'd do more damage at sea, be more reliable and cheaper overall, at least once they function. So, we design those. Then, we revise them to work, if they don't. If they do, we attempt a revise to enchant them with wind magics. This way, if the enemy rolls a ludicrously lucky roll that inhibits all our magic, we still have bursting, damaging projectiles, instead of glorified, expensive stones. We almost can't lose like this, and we get the best advantage we're going to get.

Now then, what could we do to change things up? Sticking with the advantages we have, making those ballistae better, that will get us a bigger lead---but we need to keep changing the game. How can we do that? If we get the bonus revision, what can we change, and how, to REALLY shake things up? We have to assume they're working their tails off to get rid of the ballistae now. We slaughtered them last time. So next time, how about catapults? Longer ranges, bigger payloads, more death. If we can deploy a few catapults, put one or two on ships at sea, we'll be capable of annihilating huge numbers of enemies, once we've developed the explosive/flaming projectiles.

Sorry, running ahead again. But you've got my vote. If at ALL possible, I want to see the fire projectiles made.

Mindwashing: (1) Crazyabe
Gale Stones: (4) Devastator, NUKE9.13, Detoxicated, Taricus
[Greek Fire bolts: (1) S34N1C
Fire Projectiles: (1) [2?] Madman198237 (Same as above? S34N1C, please chime in here)]
Theoretical Summoning: (2) Egan, Happerry
Weapon & Armour Enchantments:

Obviously, if it doesn't get enough votes, we'll go with Gale Stones instead. I think it'd be a mistake to go with gale stones, but, eS, if it comes to a tie, consider my vote to be with Gale Stones instead.

EDIT:
But the title does NOT mean anything about what we should do! NEVER introduce additional chance of self-harm! Magic is fundamentally unsafe. In a lot of ways. Just ask the mental-hospital patients, most of whom are probably our own lunatic mages from the earlier teletalk experiments. So, we want to be safe as possible. There's almost no chance of us losing out on producing flaming projectiles without magic. We've got sources of oil (Don't we control the whole desert?), we should have quicklime, though that's probably something to add only for a 5 or 6 roll, for goodness' sake I think we should know something about pottery, and we sure as heck had better know what happens when you combine a rag, some oil, and a flame.

[Taricus]

We likely already outrange their archers, and they'd have to hit with anything more long-ranged than the ballistae reliably in order to make a decent dent.

[Madman198237]

But that's the thing---what if they manage it? How can we change the game? Don't consider the catapult idea yet, that's rambling for next turn.

So, as far as projectiles, do you agree? Make the fire one, then try to enchant for wind effect? Burst into a flaming-oil-spewing mini-tornado if successful. If not, well, guess we just have exploding flaming projectiles. Next time, we could just design some bigger torsion artillery (Ballistae is a piece of torsion artillery), and then go from there.

But for now, do you like the compromise? Or do you have a better solution yourself (This isn't sarcastic---if you've got a game-endingly awesomely simple solution, please share it now

[NUKE9.13]

But the title does NOT mean anything about what we should do! NEVER introduce additional chance of self-harm! Magic is fundamentally unsafe. In a lot of ways. Just ask the mental-hospital patients, most of whom are probably our own lunatic mages from the earlier teletalk experiments. So, we want to be safe as possible. There's almost no chance of us losing out on producing flaming projectiles without magic. We've got sources of oil (Don't we control the whole desert?), we should have quicklime, though that's probably something to add only for a 5 or 6 roll, for goodness' sake I think we should know something about pottery, and we sure as heck had better know what happens when you combine a rag, some oil, and a flame.

Alright, so, think about this from a game design perspective. You're making a game about wizards inventing spells to kill each other with. You also let them design mundane gear. Would you make designing mundane gear be better in all situations, considering what kind of game you want to create?
If the GM is any good, they will grant us better results for more inventive solutions (dice willing, of course).

We likely already outrange their archers, and they'd have to hit with anything more long-ranged than the ballistae reliably in order to make a decent dent.

If I were them, I'd use my revision to increase the range of their fireballs. Another point in favour of Gale Stones is that with a good roll, we can add enchantments that use wind magic to increase their range.

[Madman198237]

No, the GM can only really grant us better results if we start from bases that give us advantages in the technologies we're trying to get. Magic is always more finicky. There's always more things that can go wrong with magic. But there's only so much you can do to stop a projectile that doesn't rely on magic.

So why not split the different like I suggested to Taricus? Design a flaming projectile, THEN enchant it. Gives us a basis for the shattering/exploding-type effect, THEN we add magic. Might need to spend an expense credit on it if it doesn't go great, but it would likely be worth it.


After all, if the game's ONLY about wizards, why have the cannon fodder? Why not have it a really lengthy series of duels/battles between mages? The name is just that-a name. Because otherwise they'd have called it "Medieval Arms Race" and had no magic, and there would be NO research of actual limbs involved. Probably. Unless you get REALLY freaky. But, that's besides the point. Don't take too much stock in the name---we've got a whole category for mundane equipment, just like enchanted equipment. And we've got a lot more mundane. So let's try to do both, but in a way that MAXIMIZES potential.
The way I propose uses a bunch of no-duh background information to produce something shattering and flammable. If we then make a version, say, of our wind shield spell that merely propels things outwards and apply it to the projectiles, it could become extremely powerful.

[Devastator]

It's alright, Madman, we're in good shape.  If we botch the design a bit, which is quite possible, we should get experience towards at least one of the related abilities and then act appropriately.  Don't forget we already have very good non-magical projectiles already.

[Madman198237]

It IS alright. But let's assume the WORST. You can never be disappointed if you assume the worst. So, what do you think? Combine the two ideas? Or are we going to try something different? I can't read minds, certainly not over the internet. Is the final vote for JUST the gale stone, or can we start we the flaming pottery and THEN make it explode into winds?

[Mardent23]

I'm actually going to go with Madman on this one. If we use those in tandem, the jungle will be ours. Also, fire cyclones.

[Madman198237]

So, looks like this:

Mindwashing: (1) Crazyabe
Gale Stones: (4) Devastator, NUKE9.13, Detoxicated, Taricus
[Greek Fire bolts: (1) S34N1C
Fire Projectiles: (2) [3?] Madman198237 Mardent23 (Same as above? S34N1C, please chime in here)]
Theoretical Summoning: (2) Egan, Happerry
Weapon & Armour Enchantments:

[Mardent23]

In terms of Invasion assistance, what should we give them?

[Madman198237]

My vote was for part of our elite wizard's guard (How can you turn them down!?!?) along with a unit of cavalry, mixed lancers and horse archers, on two of our warships, one of which should have a ballista. This ought to be significant. Arstotzka can't afford that much---they run with elite units rather than plentiful units. We can impress them with numbers.

Also, I'd send a pair of mages and their apprentices, along with a unit of infantry, on a third vessel. Draw them from the Eastern Sea, we're winning pretty handily there, and if our ballistae upgrade goes well, we should pretty much control the seas. Unless Arstotzka is willing to lose ships, artillery (Which they may/may not have), mages, and cavalry (Again with the not-really-having thing), we'll win for sure. And it won't even really eat into our strength.

Clarification:
Just three or four elite guards, to act as commanders or whatever for the unit. They, along with a pair of mages, would be enough to deal a lot of damage in a world presumably without magic. That, or the enemy is going to win, and Europeans armed with ludicrous amounts of magic are going to swarm the beaches, killing us all. But it'll be fun, right guys?.....guys?...

[Mardent23]

+1. Plus, all of our troops have Lamellar.

[Madman198237]

Alright, good. Also, good point. We should mostly have elite lamellar now, as well. Should be quite good enough for this guy. Did it say anything about the conditions where he came from? I'm going to go dig that up and edit this post.

Alright, got it. They came from a desert land (+100000000000 for sending cavalry like ours, already accustomed to the heat) to the south. So, revise that. Send the mages mounted, remove the infantry. Three boats of cavalry, with horse archers, 3 or 4 of the Black Phantasms, 2 mages and their apprentices, and some lancers as well.
Agreed?

[Mardent23]

So far, so good. What about the Ballistias ?