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[Devastator]

Our archers aren't really accurate enough to reliably take out specific targets.
Yes, not everyone can use magic. But those that can are worth a dozen men that can't, at least. Magic is like artillery; you don't need every soldier to have one for it to rule the battlefield.
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that we get a +1 to mundane weapons. That hasn't been the case in the past.

We do have the lucky strike spell for specific targets.

Spear of Allah is also the mage equivalent of Expensive, right?  We could spend an expense chit or a second revision to make it the mage equivalent of cheap, but bows are already cheap, so that would save us a chit or a second revision.

Our bows and our horses are really, really good.  Lets do one more revision, to take out the Arstotzkan armor, and we'll roll all the way to victory right now.  The Spear, however useful it may be, can't win the war by itself.  Our bows and horses, minus their armor, can.

One last thing, we have the area lightning already.  If we add assasination lighting, and they come up with a lightning-counter, we've got two designed spells that can be countered by the same counter.  If we have armor-piercing arrows to go with our area lightning, it's harder to counter both of them with the same design.

[Kashyyk]

They won't create an anti lightning spell for the same reason we won't create an anti fire spell (despite it being more  beneficial for us to make the counter than for them). We'll be safe with doubling up on the same spell type.

[Devastator]

They won't create an anti lightning spell for the same reason we won't create an anti fire spell (despite it being more  beneficial for us to make the counter than for them). We'll be safe with doubling up on the same spell type.

..aren't we researching anti-magic?

[S34N1C]

I suggest we use our expense credit on our ships so we can just flood the ocean with them

[Kashyyk]

..aren't we researching anti-magic?

Generic anti magic,  yes. Which would be just as effective regardless of what type of spell it counters.  I was referring to a specific protection from fire or protection from lightning spell. We'd be better served with the anti fire spell than they would with the anti lightning, yet the few times I suggested it I got shot down for being reactive rather than proactive.

[Devastator]

..aren't we researching anti-magic?

Generic anti magic,  yes. Which would be just as effective regardless of what type of spell it counters.  I was referring to a specific protection from fire or protection from lightning spell. We'd be better served with the anti fire spell than they would with the anti lightning, yet the few times I suggested it I got shot down for being reactive rather than proactive.

I'd be happy to vote for a good fire counter just fine.  You okay with the bodkin arrows, otoh?  I really do think they're better due to pairing with the cheap horses and cheap recurve bows well, along with the lucky strike spell.

I know part of the reason to do wind gusts was to counter their mists, as well as bug swarms.  No reason to expect a good anti-fire spell couldn't be done.

[NUKE9.13]

Actually, thinking about it some more, I have a question for evictedSaint:

Does SoA work as an offensive spell, or is it more/only useful on the defence?

Because if it doesn't help us (as much) on the attack, bodkin arrows may actually be better; we want a weapon that can help us push further into the jungle, not one that can help us hang onto ground we already hold.

[evictedSaint]

SoA would be an assassin-type weapon used on the offense to target enemy commanders.

Right now it's being used as an assassin-type weapon used on the offense to target enemy commanders and your own mages.

[Devastator]

Would bodkin arrows be of use on the attack?

..and, is lightning of use in the Jungle?

[NUKE9.13]

Would bodkin arrows be of use on the attack?

..and, is lightning of use in the Jungle?

Hammer of Allah has been useful in the jungle in the past.

SoA would be an assassin-type weapon used on the offense to target enemy commanders.

Right now it's being used as an assassin-type weapon used on the offense to target enemy commanders and your own mages.

Yeah, good. In that case I'm sticking with Fixing SoA. Knowing their plans and preventing them from making new ones will mean our tactical dominance will be absolute. Who cares how much 'better' their soldiers are- a soldier in the wrong place is useless no matter how good a fighter he is.

[Devastator]

Yeah, good. In that case I'm sticking with Fixing SoA. Knowing their plans and preventing them from making new ones will mean our tactical dominance will be absolute. Who cares how much 'better' their soldiers are- a soldier in the wrong place is useless no matter how good a fighter he is.

You can use the arrows to kill the same leader you hit with lightning.

I don't know why that isn't good enough.

Kashyyk tells me the enemy won't counter lightning becase we haven't countered fire.  We've countered several enemy spells, such as mists and bug swarms, and are working on anti-magic to counter their trap casters.

Nuke tells me that SoA must be revised because we need an assassination weapon.  A bow is also a useful assassination weapon, and we specifically have a spell that makes bows better assassination weapons, in Lucky Strike.

If you won't vote for something I'm proposing because it's me proposing it, just say it and I'll stop wasting your time.  If you'd like to see something, like it being a spell or flashy or something, I can work with that, but I'm always going to be myself.

[NUKE9.13]

Hey, woah, calm down. I ain't got no problem with you personally.

Our enemies (which is to say, the Arstotzkans, not each other) needed to spend a design/revision on developing snipers. Prior to that, even their archers -who are superior to ours- could not reliably take out our mages/commanders. From this I infer that our own archers would not be capable of specifically taking out high value targets without special training.

[ATHATH]

I'm changing my vote (or declaring it, if I haven't already voted this turn) to bodkin arrows and stopping the pointless assaults on the mountains.

@EvictedSaint: Any opinion on my Detect Thoughts wand-related ideas?

[ATHATH]

I don't think that the problem with Spear of Allah is the ability of the lightning to find its targets- it's that it doesn't like being commanded.

As a pious Moskurger, I obviously believe that the storm is a manifestation of Allah, and we can do nothing with it without his blessing.
As a 21st century atheist, I think lightning doesn't actually care, and the lack of accuracy is caused by a failure on our part to properly guide it to its destination. What we need is to pre-ionise the air between the clouds and the target, which we should be able to do with some simple magic.

Just wondering, did you post this before or afters reading my spell ideas?

I've been suggesting improved targeting for SoA for a while. I was just posting from my phone, so I didn't respond to your ideas. Let me do so now:

Avatars: By using a Detect Thought wand to achieve a direct mental link to Allah, a mage can completely surrender his mind to His will, effectively becoming possessed by Him. In addition to, y'know, having physical avatars of our god walking around on the battlefield, Avatars will be able to greatly improve long-range communication- since Allah is one being, what one Avatar knows, all of them do. Hence, one can tell important information to an Avatar on one side of the continent and have another Avatar relay the information to commanders on the other side.

That sounds hella heretical. Plus, I'm not sure it would work. Allah is in all things already. Mankind is already an (imperfect) reflection of His being. In a sense, we already are physical avatars of Allah.
That being said, it's worth looking into. It may not have the exact effects you're looking for, but Divine Magic could be an interesting path to go down.

Improved Divine Spellcasting: Due to Detect Thoughts wands enabling us to obtain a better understanding of Allah (and the divine in general), all divinity/divine-related projects and spells have their costs reduced by one when used/created/cast/whatever by a bearer of a Detect Thoughts wand (that isn't currently using it on non-Allah beings (or his angels, I suppose), of course).

Hella heretical still, but if there is some sort of divine energy we can tap into to enhance spellcasting, that would be useful (I imagine that, for balance reasons, said 'divine' energy would be non-denominational, so that Arstotzkans could also use it. Our religion actually being literally true would be somewhat OP, I feel)

Improved Spear of Allah: Instead of commanding lightning to do our bidding, our mages will use Detect Thoughts wands to implant suggestions in the "minds" of storms and lightning. In addition to greatly reducing the risk of our own mages being fried (because the storm will 'think" that it came up with the idea to strike that guy over there with lightning itself), this could be used to cause a storm to autonomously go to places/do things that we desire (i.e. plant a suggestion to "fly over to Screwedville and fry anybody there who is wearing a suit, then do the same in Doomedland, etc. etc. (worded in a less demanding and more "natural" way, of course)).

The primary problem with this line of development is that, whether it is possible or not, Detect Thoughts is designed to work on humans. Making it work on divinity, or the 'minds' of natural phenomena, would almost certainly require a design, not a revision. I think a more mundane way of increasing the accuracy of SoA would be easier to pull off.

How about instead of abandoning the mountains, we just decrease the amount of troops we send in these death missions?

Order: Slow the assault: Cut the amount of attacks we attempt in the mountains in half

That'll just guarantee they fail. We'd be throwing them away even more than before. No, it's all or nothing.

We could just redirect them into invading the Tundra.

Not until we have spells or weapons that are specifically designed to help us invade it. At the moment, their home territory advantage is too stronk.

Bodkin Arrows.

Our best weapon is our horse archers with their recurve bows.  Their best weapon is their heavy armor.  Lets make our best weapon, carried on all our troops, effective against their best weapon.

It should be helpful when skirmishing, and it should be helpful in pressed battles.

I mean, yeah, we definitely should revise our arrows to be armour-piercing at some point. But the potential of SoA to take out commanders and mages, whilst also improving our offence against heavily-armoured troops (especially if we make it cheaper) tips it in SoA's favour for me.
If we had two revisions, I'd do both.

Why is it heretical to try to get closer to/better obey the will of one's god?

And, considering that this is a fantasy setting, I wouldn't be surprised if Moskurg's god is real in-setting, although he would almost definitely exist alongside other deities.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

That's not- Detect Thoughts doesn't allow for any of those things. Assuming that Allah was somehow within range,  connecting to a Divine Being of such Grace would most certainly destroy whatever magi made the attempt. Also our Wand of Heroism already covers that mechanical aspect.

Detect Thoughts works on Human subjects only at the moment, even if the Storm has a mind it would take quite a few attempts to get it to work through that route.

Bodkin Arrows are a good idea, but ISoA has been waiting in the wind for too long already, plus it'll be more useful on the Seas than arrows will be. Plus the Expense Credit will be more able to be used on it, if we're able to get the arrows to Normal Cost.

_______

So, it's going to be a National Effort. Do we want to commit to this and have it be the focus of our next turn or do we want to explore something else? Research being an option is encouraging, so a Wizard Academy/Research Laboratory might be something if we wanted to improve the reliability of future research. I'm still of the mind that we should give Terramancy a shot, but that's for next year to debate about.

Revision
ISoA: SMMI, Kash, NUKE
Bodkin Arrows: Devastator, ATHATH

Order
Surrender Mountains: a bunch of folks, SMMI
Halve Forces on Mountains: S34N1C

I think we should decide on a revision and get the results of it before committing to an Expense Credit decision. Honestly, if we could save the Expense Credit for a rainy day, I'd like to do that and am asking after our ability to do that.