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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Moskurg] {COMPLETED}  (Read 203921 times)

NUKE9.13

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #420 on: April 03, 2017, 12:45:15 pm »

Hmm!!

So, the question is: Which will be more useful:

Improved Detect Thoughts - Induce Zen: Shh! Shh! You're thinking too loud. Just for a moment, we need you to stop thinking. What? No, we don't mean for you to die. Just enter into a state of absolute zen. It'll be nice. You'll have a new outlook on life. And we will have the thoughts of your commander, uninterrupted. And then, after that, you die. But because we know your commander's thoughts, not because of the spell.
(Fix the overlay issue, by briefly silencing the minds of those the relay passes through. Or some other way. The method described is just for fluff purposes)

Or:

Improved Targeting for SoA: By firing a small magic 'marker' at the desired target, a link is established with the clouds above through which lightning can flow. This greatly improves the accuracy of the Spear.

Given the low low cost of IDT, I'm going to say that IDT-Induce Zen would be better. Also, I want to confuse the Arstotzkans with descriptions of their soldiers' experiences. Hopefully they'll be too focused on finding out why their soldiers are suddenly becoming enlightened to worry about our tactical advantage.
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S34N1C

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #421 on: April 03, 2017, 02:45:46 pm »

I like the Induce Zen idea. +1
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #422 on: April 03, 2017, 02:52:13 pm »

Okay but what if we took that set of thoughts that were preventing our understanding of the next set minds and had another mage handle them while the lead mage went into the next mind, shuffling more and more minds to other mages within the ritual until we got to where we needed them? That way we can get intel from throughout the chain of command while also not causing an intensely noticeable effect that might reveal our mind reading.

+1 revising Improved Detect Thoughts to be explicit about it though I think a different approach to fixing the problem is less likely to be noticed as stated above. Normally I'd go for ISoA, but we rolled really well on this and it's going to have long lasting and immediate effects on most every front.

To further argue for a more subtle fix, if they haven't noticed our mind reading yet then we definitely don't want to tip our hand yet on that and have them develop defenses against it. The knowledge of the enemy is worth more than the resources they'll spend to shore up that defense.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #423 on: April 03, 2017, 03:17:32 pm »

I mean, yeah. But they'll probably notice when we start predicting their moves again. It took them several years to design a counter to our mind-reading last time, so just cos they know it's happening doesn't mean they'll be able to do anything about it.
I'm also thinking about the poor GM here. They need to be able to give little hints in the flavour text as to what the enemy is doing, I'm providing a way of doing so.

If we really wanted to keep our mind-reading secret, we'd have to do like the british in WWII and deliberately mess up frequently enough that the really important times where we get things right seem like coincidences. Which would limit the effectiveness somewhat.

I guess if you want to take a more subtle approach, we could exchange a bit of cost for secrecy;

Improved Detect Thoughts - Chain Readers: As some idiot suggests, we take advantage of the ease of casting by having up to a dozen mages working on a relay chain at once, each one handling the thoughts of one of the links. This would bump up the cost to Expensive, which would still be cheaper than Very Expensive. The Arstotzkans would be hard pressed to notice anything is amiss, as one of the things we would focus on in exchange for the increased cost would be secrecy.

Which we could combine with the following:

Order - Selective Intelligence Usage: We use IDT to gather all the intel we could ever want, but we only use the most important pieces- the ones that can geniunely swing a battle. This has the effect of making it seem like our increased success is mere luck, as opposed to magic (As in, we would hope that all that would be mentioned in the enemy's combat report is 'Moskurg has had better luck than we have', not 'Moskurg seems to know what we are planning')

To be clear, I am not voting for either of these. I'm just presenting the option. I still like the idea of granting Arstotzkans enlightenment as we steal their plans. Heh heh heh.
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crazyabe

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #424 on: April 03, 2017, 03:23:26 pm »

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Kashyyk

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #425 on: April 03, 2017, 03:36:03 pm »

Zen also has the advantage that people in the chain won't wander out of range.
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #426 on: April 03, 2017, 07:31:25 pm »

You make a fair meta-argument, though I don't think the order would be necessary as how we're obtaining this information isn't obvious, and could be use spending designs on a very competent spy system. I'd say the hints about what's going on are making notice of us reacting to their plans in such a manner, we did roll pretty well on the spell, and the botch was determined to be effectiveness and not noticability.

Zen also has the advantage that people in the chain won't wander out of range.

It also has the flaw of, if it's noticed then it's just a quick murder/bucket of water to clear them out of the Zen state. Also with the ritual set up, at worst you just need to jump a few more minds until you're back in range.

After some processing, I think we should go for the Ritual Casting set up this revision, the potential use of Zen next turn, and then either some sort of Mind Control or Mind Killer the turn after that, using IDT as the targeting vector. If we can kill their leaders the moment we detect them, or kill entire lines in a moment, then we might have a war winner. Thoughts?
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Sosoku234

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #427 on: April 03, 2017, 07:56:24 pm »

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S34N1C

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #428 on: April 03, 2017, 07:58:19 pm »

I'm actually changing my vote to the other version of detect thoughts.
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ATHATH

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #429 on: April 03, 2017, 08:01:12 pm »

I mean, yeah. But they'll probably notice when we start predicting their moves again. It took them several years to design a counter to our mind-reading last time, so just cos they know it's happening doesn't mean they'll be able to do anything about it.
I'm also thinking about the poor GM here. They need to be able to give little hints in the flavour text as to what the enemy is doing, I'm providing a way of doing so.

If we really wanted to keep our mind-reading secret, we'd have to do like the british in WWII and deliberately mess up frequently enough that the really important times where we get things right seem like coincidences. Which would limit the effectiveness somewhat.

I guess if you want to take a more subtle approach, we could exchange a bit of cost for secrecy;

Improved Detect Thoughts - Chain Readers: As some idiot suggests, we take advantage of the ease of casting by having up to a dozen mages working on a relay chain at once, each one handling the thoughts of one of the links. This would bump up the cost to Expensive, which would still be cheaper than Very Expensive. The Arstotzkans would be hard pressed to notice anything is amiss, as one of the things we would focus on in exchange for the increased cost would be secrecy.

Which we could combine with the following:

Order - Selective Intelligence Usage: We use IDT to gather all the intel we could ever want, but we only use the most important pieces- the ones that can geniunely swing a battle. This has the effect of making it seem like our increased success is mere luck, as opposed to magic (As in, we would hope that all that would be mentioned in the enemy's combat report is 'Moskurg has had better luck than we have', not 'Moskurg seems to know what we are planning')

To be clear, I am not voting for either of these. I'm just presenting the option. I still like the idea of granting Arstotzkans enlightenment as we steal their plans. Heh heh heh.
+1 to the stuff that's presented here.
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #430 on: April 03, 2017, 09:15:06 pm »

Okay so we have some split votes at the moment. Please quote and edit this post to add you vote to it so we are sure of where people stand.

Issue 1: What to revise: Presented to make sure that we are all on board with such.
A: Improved Detect Thoughts: I
B: Something Else:

Issue 2: Method of IDT Revision: Unless a major upset happens, this is the next topic
A: Zen Mind, introduces a Mind Stilling Effect to make the mind bouncing usable. Potentially noticeable:
B: Ritual Casting, introduces More Magic Users to handle the Mind Overlap to make the mind bouncing usable. Will almost certainly increase expense: 1

Issue 3: Orders: A specific vote on if we want to do any Orders this turn, if Yea then a follow up vote on what Orders to do will be had.
A: Yes:
B: No: 1
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"As to why you'd want to [throw your sword in combat] at all? The answer is pretty simple: There's someone you want to stab, but they're all the way over there, and walking is for peasants." - Starke of How To Fight Write

somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #431 on: April 03, 2017, 09:16:24 pm »

I sleep now, also, feel free to refer to me as SMMI as lowercased "some idiot" can be confusing.
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"As to why you'd want to [throw your sword in combat] at all? The answer is pretty simple: There's someone you want to stab, but they're all the way over there, and walking is for peasants." - Starke of How To Fight Write

Taricus

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #432 on: April 03, 2017, 09:29:16 pm »

We can't just... throw a filter onto the spell?
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #433 on: April 04, 2017, 02:18:30 am »

We can't just... throw a filter onto the spell?
Don't be ridiculous, that's far too simple.
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Taricus

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #434 on: April 04, 2017, 02:31:34 am »

Hey, if it's simple and it works, well... why aren't we doing it?
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