Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Chiefwaffles]

You're just going to have to trust me on the steam engines, Happerry. I'm not going to give you the exact details of our designs.
Also what Roboson said.

But other than that, Warjacks are actually a really good idea and you've just inspired me.
When we have mechs tearing through your troops, Happerry, they're going to have you to blame.

[Devastator]

Daily reminder that this is not directed to Evicted at all. For your sanity, Evicted, please ignore this post.
And the pile of sixes shouldn't be possible. We get hit with massive penalties any time we dare do something that isn't directly based on one of our existing technologies or spells. And even when we do make a design directly stemming from another, it still gets penalties.

That one I kinda don't want to talk about, because giving advice on it would be telling you a good way to fix a lot of your problems.

[RAM]

I do kind of feel that the carpets shuld have been useless during the day. Our anti-commander factor is a specific counter to them as far as I can see and our fireballs should have been pretty much murder to them. And then they are actually attacking our cold effect, from the air, while throwing wind magic all over the place, presumably some of it heading at one another and at the very least moving at decent speed. They should have been frozen, exploded, and sniped, and that doesn't even mention that our cannons are pretty good against things that they can actually see and really really really ought to have the ability to shoot at a decent angle. I only really see them existing as a skirmish factor at night.

And our antimagic was derived from a bonus that we got from one of our actions. And the specific targeted spells that Mosskurg magic blocks is conjured material. It is not as though we are trying to summon the things inside enemy soldiers, and yet this one spell not just counters, but completely negates every starting spell that we had, as well as every spell derived from those starting spells, over the entire battlefield up to medium range, with, if my impression from this thread is accurate, no prior research. And one really annoying thing is that your antimagic is treated identically to our antimagic when it is favourable, and different when difference is favourable. If your antimagic is actually magic then there is a thing that just does not make any sense at all to me and has made it pretty near impossible to make a plausible counter-measure. Although I wonder if perhaps our problem is that we spend too much time trying to make things plausible when perhaps we should be doing more "this is what we want, this is its pretty name, a wizard did it"... Oh, and I have no idea how our firealls work in your antimagic. They don't seem any different to conjured weapons to me, which really ought to work in your fields, but don't...

You seem to have derived levitation from wind. I note that carpets are not gaseous... I assume that means that wind is actually telekinesis, which means that you have already won. You are about two designs from force-fields that can only be broken by antimagic or the ability to blind an entire army by looking at the whites of their eyes...

Oh, and there was that time that I almost stopped playing because the G.M. quoted my idea and said that I should focus on their advice instead. That spoke of way more preconcenption that I was comfortable with, but it is better to just be chill and ride with the pain.

But hey, we could, alternatively, just keep playing the game instead. I mean, we know it will not be a perfect simulation, and we know that someone will lose. Combine these two facts and we have to accept that the team with the best designs may not be the team that wins.


OH HEY! There was that one time the G.M. told us how your antimagic works! I thought that maybe it was a joke, but I guess it was real. And we already have a proposal for countering that!

[Devastator]

..what?

Might as well complain about you having already won because you can create energy from nothing.

[Chiefwaffles]

Well I mean, both sides can do that.
That's literally what magic is.

[Happerry]

Yeah, but third generation steam engines (or maybe we're on the fourth design phase for those, I've lost track), should be able to outpace small sailboats.

Um. They are outpacing our ships? It said so in the quote I gave? Even though our ships are using wind magic as propulsion? Hell, they're basically outrunning our flying carpets as well, which really shouldn't be a surprise because they're also using the same wind magic as propulsion.

We have 4 fireball versions, AND it was our wand spell. Yet in one turn (1 design and 1 revision, maybe an additional revision for the ballista aspect) you got something equally as deadly. Probably more than equally since you all can shoot our soldiers in the eye from an incredible distance and rarely miss with your ballistas.

I'll admit that the shells were about equally as deadly, but that was a splash range zone issue and the Saint fixed that, remember? I mean, sure, anyone inside the area of effect is basically dead, but the same applies for anyone within a fireball's aoe, or hell anyone given a solid hit from an arrow given the lack of healing spells, and you have a lot more fireball casters as well as better aoe. Beyond that, claiming that it was one design and one revision is an inaccurate claim. The payload was a Design and a Revision both with natural sixes, but it's being shot out of an enchanted Ballista that we've spent like four or five turns on designing and upgrading that is being manned by a wizard, as well as an aim assist by Lucky Strike, which was one of our spellbook spells.

If you took away any of that other stuff, the Fire shells would range from 'a lot less useful' to 'totally useless'.

Little off topic here, but you really shouldn't have even been able to make Greek fire in one turn. Its incredibly complex and when the bulgarians captured some, they couldn't even use it because it because it has to be properly prepared heated and pressurized right before deployment and then shot out of a siphon. You all have molotovs, not Greek fire.

We use magic to brew it, remember? Also, I highly doubt we're actually using proper same recipe 'Greek Fire' anymore then we're literally using a napalm recipe with magic on top. But calling it 'Greek Fire' is a lot simpler then calling it 'Sticky Flame that is hard to put out' and gets the idea across better.

I mean, it could just be Molotov style incendiaries with 'keep burning' and 'stick to stuff' enchantments brewed into it for all we know.

You're just going to have to trust me on the steam engines, Happerry. I'm not going to give you the exact details of our designs.
Also what Roboson said.

That's 100% fair enough, but that's also why there's so much complaining in this game. None of us can get a good view on what the other side has been doing or how hard things were to make without cheating, so when the other side gets something cool we all can only see the cool thing and not how much effort went into it, how many actions that got spent on it, if it has any not immediately apparent flaws...

I mean, like, 'After you cast it, your spellcaster can never use magic again' is a giant flaw, wouldn't you agree? It was the flaw that our early generation anti-magic had... and if no one mentioned it in this thread, would any of your team who wasn't reading the other side's thread have ever found out about it until after the game was over and it was ok to read the the Moskurg thread?

But other than that, Warjacks are actually a really good idea and you've just inspired me.
When we have mechs tearing through your troops, Happerry, they're going to have you to blame.

Oh dear. Welp, good luck with the rolls I guess, I'll just have to get started on that 'Touch of the Rust Monster' spell...

[Roboson]

Yeah, but third generation steam engines (or maybe we're on the fourth design phase for those, I've lost track), should be able to outpace small sailboats.

Um. They are outpacing our ships? It said so in the quote I gave? Even though our ships are using wind magic as propulsion? Hell, they're basically outrunning our flying carpets as well, which really shouldn't be a surprise because they're also using the same wind magic as propulsion.

We have 4 fireball versions, AND it was our wand spell. Yet in one turn (1 design and 1 revision, maybe an additional revision for the ballista aspect) you got something equally as deadly. Probably more than equally since you all can shoot our soldiers in the eye from an incredible distance and rarely miss with your ballistas.

I'll admit that the shells were about equally as deadly, but that was a splash range zone issue and the Saint fixed that, remember? I mean, sure, anyone inside the area of effect is basically dead, but the same applies for anyone within a fireball's aoe, or hell anyone given a solid hit from an arrow given the lack of healing spells, and you have a lot more fireball casters as well as better aoe. Beyond that, claiming that it was one design and one revision is an inaccurate claim. The payload was a Design and a Revision both with natural sixes, but it's being shot out of an enchanted Ballista that we've spent like four or five turns on designing and upgrading that is being manned by a wizard, as well as an aim assist by Lucky Strike, which was one of our spellbook spells.

If you took away any of that other stuff, the Fire shells would range from 'a lot less useful' to 'totally useless'.

Little off topic here, but you really shouldn't have even been able to make Greek fire in one turn. Its incredibly complex and when the bulgarians captured some, they couldn't even use it because it because it has to be properly prepared heated and pressurized right before deployment and then shot out of a siphon. You all have molotovs, not Greek fire.

We use magic to brew it, remember? Also, I highly doubt we're actually using proper same recipe 'Greek Fire' anymore then we're literally using a napalm recipe with magic on top. But calling it 'Greek Fire' is a lot simpler then calling it 'Sticky Flame that is hard to put out' and gets the idea across better.

I mean, it could just be Molotov style incendiaries with 'keep burning' and 'stick to stuff' enchantments brewed into it for all we know.

Only our super expensive ships could outpace yours, and that was just barely. They also had the unfortunate bug of sinking if you hit us with any projectile at all. Which is a great bug to have when the enemy is incapable of missing.

As for the Moskotovs, we never knew they were created with magic. It just seemed like you suddenly had a mastery of chemistry from our point of view. Still, thats a pretty good result for a first attempt at conjuration magic (assuming you conjure it, idk or want to know the exact process).

[Tyrant Leviathan]

You're just going to have to trust me on the steam engines, Happerry. I'm not going to give you the exact details of our designs.
Also what Roboson said.

But other than that, Warjacks are actually a really good idea and you've just inspired me.
When we have mechs tearing through your troops, Happerry, they're going to have you to blame.

Dude I suggested warjacks via magic computers ages ago.


It was called useless. And for record I have quit ages ago. Just a observer now.

[Happerry]

Only our super expensive ships could outpace yours, and that was just barely. They also had the unfortunate bug of sinking if you hit us with any projectile at all. Which is a great bug to have when the enemy is incapable of missing.

This is kinda my point about informational disparity though, as our battle report doesn't really tell us that. As far as we can see, as of the last battle report your boats can currently outrun our flying carpets without any noted issues. Also this part of what I quoted earlier.

Their faster ships (which our Pegasus riders report is powered by some weird, heavy metal contraption) is faster than our ships and can dictate when and where engagements happen, and are able to sink several of our ships for each one lost

None of us can really see how the other sides stuff is going wrong unless it is really really dramatic going wrong usually. I mean 'Release the Kraken! Wait, why is it eating our own ships too?!?" is kinda obvious, but 'Their rain of ballista bolts slows to a stop over the engagement' doesn't really tell you 'Because they all exploded from misfires'.

As for the Moskotovs, we never knew they were created with magic. It just seemed like you suddenly had a mastery of chemistry from our point of view. Still, thats a pretty good result for a first attempt at conjuration magic (assuming you conjure it, idk or want to know the exact process).

As far as I'm aware the stuff is brewed up in the desert, far out of 'and then the refinery blew up and set everything around it on fire' splash damage range of anything we don't want being set on fire, with mystical assistance in a process that takes several months/most of a year.

If the stuff was conjured up we'd never have gotten a mention of our Ballista suffering an Ammo Explosion when you get a hit in on them. Well, probably.

[Madman198237]

OK, glad this has seemed to die down.

If you don't like the way the game's being moderated, well, the door is a little red X in the top right corner of this window.



If you can't keep the salt in the ocean, please use the door.



Other than that, this thread partially exists (I assume) as a place to drop your issues. Mention them, in a clear way. Nobody from the other side needs argue, unless they want to debate it in their own thread and have one designated person post it here. Then, eS could read a much-shortened list of grievances and counterarguments, and we keep the salt where it belongs.

On French fries.

[RAM]

..what?

Might as well complain about you having already won because you can create energy from nothing.

That really really looks like hyperbole to me. Now, hyperbole is fun and all, but it sort of never achieves anything unless it is an extremely clear example. I do not see any clear examples here, althrough feel free to expand upon the specific ridiculousness to which you are referring. Generally, hyperbole is just seen as an insult and perpetuates squabbles.

If you wish clarification, please reference what you would like clarified, hopefully with something more precise than "rephrase the whole thing". "..what?" is, I regret to inform you, far to ambiguous to be interpreted clearly.

Ideally, people would only respond to one another if they have clear and precise observations or arguments. That way people actually have specific points to respond to in specific ways, rather than just generally insisting upon their own inherent llegitimacy.

[evictedSaint]

I was kind of hoping people would have moved on by now, but I see that's not the case.

Considering I myself am suffering from a near-lethal dose of salt poisoning, I think I'll put the game on hiatus for a while (maybe a week) until people (myself included) have cooled off.

[Chiefwaffles]

...

Goddamnit. I was afraid this would happen. Why didn't you listen to my disclaimers, Evicted? Whyyy?


EDIT: But seriously -
Even if it is just for a week, I'm really going to miss Wands Race. I hope you change your mind and choose to just ignore the salt. Keeping in mind that the primary sources of salt should be mostly gone by now. The argument in this thread after this post was almost definitely _{(Like I said in my disclaimers)} directed towards each other about things that have already happened. I wish you would try going through one more combat phase before deciding to go on hiatus, but oh well. It's your game, your life, and your decision. I just hope the game starts up again soon!

[10ebbor10]

So, basically, both of our first designs were equally self destructive.

Exactly my point.

You guys rolled a 1 on flaws, and got a ballista with the tendency to kill it's own crew.

We rolled a 4 on flaws, and got a cannon that exploded, ran hot, missed, relied on extremely specifuc ammunition, and so on and so on.

Despite having a far better roll, our cannon was worse.

I'll do the rest in PM.

Why didn't you listen to my disclaimers, Evicted? Whyyy?

A disclaimer "I'm not criticizing you. Now let me write extensively on what you did wrong" was never going to help.

[Chiefwaffles]

Except I wasn't. People pointed out supposed flaws in our arguments that Evicted had already looked at. I wasn't trying to convince Evicted to do anything more. He already addressed the problem and I was satisfied with the solution. I was talking to the people who said that our arguments prior to the solution were flawed.

Everything I've said after Evicted's decision was repeats of points made already that Evicted looked at before he came to his balance decision. I was just trying to make them more clear. But I was afraid that the tone could potentially appear as "EVICTED DIDN'T DO ENOUGH WAHHH" even if I was just clarifying prior points. Hence the "disclaimers".
And really, ebbor? Now you're arguing that I'm wrong in what I said?