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Author Topic: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh  (Read 23616 times)

TheBiggerFish

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #90 on: March 29, 2017, 07:55:40 am »

Are we planning to sell the business once the monopoly is broken or should we use this opportunity to get the stuff we need?

We should remove Tiber from our fleet and have him join the command of our wife's fleet, he is very loyal, I would like him to be watching her back.
Keep. More fun, and having business interests abroad will likely be more stable than putting all of our eggs in one provincial basket.

I'm not sure Tiber has the stomach for Tsunamia's brand of cruelty.


I think we should take the Flower Demon for our dowry. A legendary flagship or spy demon would be neat, but here's the thing: The flagship is basically just useful for making us even tougher on the water and giving us street cred. Wave cred? Making sure everyone knows we're awesome. The spy demon just lets us scheme against our enemies and know which enemies are scheming against us. Both are very immediate, and neither lets us do anything we couldn't before, it just makes us better at them.

The Flower Demon, on the other hand, comes with two benefits. One, it knows natural sciences and some magic. Two, it gives Tsunamia bonus runes to work with. Both of which might synergize amazingly with our unique art of Claychantment, especially since we have to rebuild our infrastructure from the ground up anyway. Think of the wondrous blasphemies we might be able to pull off by combining a divine art with demonic cunning and magics. Shapechanging ships? Clay submarines? Weapons whose strength outstrips even steel? Living seaweed enchanted to mimic enchanted clay's properties?

Maybe not, but we won't know if we don't try.


Nobody's mentioned it yet, but both of Tideus' demands are nonissues. Even if they weren't making peace we'd probably be tempted to turn a blind eye to our father in law's forces doing business in our lands, and we'll no doubt have a surplus of quality children from Tsunamia.

I agree with a sea wedding in Imperial Waters. The sea part should be sufficiently Tideusy and the imperial part sufficiently Caesary to make it a good show of unity, and the imperial population probably needs more convincing than the Everstorm Islands crowd. Our own province would be nice, but if it's just going to piss off the commoners there's not a ton of point.


For negotiations, both with Humpback Island and our dowry, I suggest we try to negotiate some supplies to help rebuild the Loam Coast as an additional dowry, partially in exchange for attempting to cut a better deal with Mooseland. We have the edge in diplomacy and several important hostages (and a mild number of unimportant hostages) to barter with.

Tideus' deal as it stands is good, because it helps tie the two together. Tideus getting some of Mooseland's mines means neither can mess with the other without some economic loss, and gaining a concubine will hopefully help them bond rather than offend one or both for some reason. With us at the helm and his brother and captains as additional concessions, we should be able to boost the numbers a bit.

If it's of any value to Tideus, we could also try to get Mooseland to open up his ports to Tideus' forces as well. It might be an economic boost and would only be relevant if they're not at war again, so aside from lingering bile there's no reason not to. It could also help cement Humpback Island as useful to Tideus, which in turn reduces its odds of becoming useful for other purposes.


Bonus Thought - Another Wedding:
Xamut is our twin brother, and according to our faith, another vessel in which our god shares in. War-Queen Whipscale, already worships our ancestors as is - becoming our sister in law / her children becoming part of that holy bloodline via our brother, ought to suit her just fine. We needn't restrict ourself to only making trade-deals with other elven nations~
This is an excellent thought. More generally, diplomacy with our elven neighbors is going to be a project in its own right, and political marriages are a time-honored way of trying to smooth things over. Good thing we have a lot of siblings...
Definitely the Flower Demon.  Most of this is good.
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S34N1C

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #91 on: March 29, 2017, 08:02:35 am »

Damn, that's a good point. As much as I like the idea of having a demon spymaster, the Flower demon seems much cooler.

+1 to flower demon
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Weirdsound

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #92 on: March 29, 2017, 03:05:38 pm »

Karses II, Friend of Caesar, Heir to the Loam Coast, and Descendant of the Divine Clay Elf Bloodline:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You tell Tideus that you accept his demands and will consider his dowery offer. In reality, you have already more or less decided on the Flower Demon, but have decided to negotiate with Moselund on Tideus' behalf first to butter the demon up in hopes of getting more from him.

It is also decided that your wedding will take place at sea. Tsunamia dispatches the Blue Charm to send word to her fleet back home and to Caesar, while her father gives orders to send a few boatloads of coin to your personal household staff back in Portum. He will pay for the wedding, they will plan it.
 

---

The following day, Tideus sends some ships under a white flag to the besiged port. They return several hours later with King Mooselund and several members of his court. Negotiations take place on the deck of the Wayward Clay, with King Mooselund, his treasurer Sir Valor Whitepine, and his intimidating steward Hogeye One-Arm representing Humpback Island. Joining you on Tideus' side of the table is your brother Xamut V, your betrothed Tsunamia, and a frightening eight-foot tall being in full black plate armor who is introduced to you as Omen, the champion and chief naval officer of your future father-in-law. Tideus himself lurks in the corner, observing the table but not taking part in the proceedings.

You start by laying out Tideus' terms to your guests. Tideus will give peace in exchange for a reasonable share in Mooselund's Mines, a ransom of gold, and a concubine from among the ranks of the king's daughters. You start to suggest that Mooselund open his ports to Tideus' ships to boot, but Omen stops you, stateing that Humpback Island is so close to the Everstorm Lands, it is of little value as a resupply point to the sea demon's fleet.

"This is actually a good deal for you," you stress to the ageing king, "I am to marry Tsunamia's daughter, which will form a mighty alliance between Caesar and Sea Demon. By sharing your mines and daughter with Tideus, you will grow close to that alliance, and ensure that the warlike demon never targets you again."

The king agrees straight up on the idea of sharing the wealth of his mines. Mooselund offers 50% of his personal stake in his nation's mineral wealth, which his treasurer estimates is worth about 7% of Humpback Island's total output.

The gold is a trickier matter for Humpback Island, as they have hardly any in reserve. After some debate, the Humpback Island delegation requests a loan from you, who they know to be fabulously wealthy. The amount they request, both to pay off Tideus and rebuild from the war, is equal to about half your personal cash reserves. They offer to mortgage the royal summer home and national whaling fleet as collateral at a 4% interest rate.

Tsunamia pulls you aside, and expresses concern about Humpback Island's ability to repay you in a timely manner. She suggests mitigating your personal investment in the matter by offering the loan through the Sons of Caesar Trading Company rather than your own pocket. You doubt your investors would be thrilled if you made out the loan without consulting them and it went bad, but are confident you can smooth that over if it does become a problem. You could, of course, try to work out other terms in place of the gold ransom.

On the matter of concubines, Mooselund is only able to offer his eldest daughter, 39 year old Hollytree. The remainder of his children are married, but Hollytree recently lost both her husband and only son in battle against Tideus' forces. The king's steward, Hogeye One-Arm, sheepishly admits that Mooselund has a bastard grandaughter by him who is young, pretty, available, and can be thrown in to sweeten the pot.

You offer an aside glance to Tideus, but can't read his expression. You are, however, pretty sure he intends to judge you based on the deal you make, and doubt he cares to give you any feedback. You still, of course, have the hostages, but you were planning on giving at least the important ones back for free if the negotiations went well to earn favor with the king, but you could still bring them up now in hopes of earning a bigger reward for Tideus... or yourself.
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micelus

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #93 on: March 29, 2017, 03:25:52 pm »

Would a yearly tithe of slaves be more suitable than gold?
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Weirdsound

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #94 on: March 29, 2017, 04:58:27 pm »

Xamut V foolishly suggests Humpback Island provide a yearly tithe of slaves, leaving yourself and Tsunamia to rebuke the idea on several grounds. The idea of the ransom is a single payment; Any sort of recurring offering would at least informally make Mooselund a vassal of Tideus, terms which the proud king steadfastly refuses.

There is also far less gruntwork for slaves in the northlands, so sentient cargo is far less valuable. Slaves are indeed a boon to work the ovens and brickyards of the Loam Coast, but the economy at these latitudes is largely based around hunting, fishing, and skilled work with wood, metal, and leather. None of which are industries that commonly employ slaves. Tideus indeed requires a regular handful of subjects and sacrifices for his demonic rituals, but he obtains these on his own in the form of captured enemy troops and sailors.

Lastly there is the matter of your own reputation. You have spent a good deal of your life arguing for the better treatment and even outright freedom of slaves, so it wouldn't look great if your name was publicly displayed on a treaty responsible for the enslavement of many.
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IronyOwl

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #95 on: March 30, 2017, 12:24:55 am »

Solving their gold issue is probably important for our reputation, at least among Humpback Island. On the other hand, we also want to spend our vast personal fortune rebuilding our own wartorn province...

I say we offer to loan them the gold through the trading company, but insist on a more profitable interest rate after a moderate grace period, noting that our shareholders will have reservations and we had intended to invest much of our own fortune in rebuilding our war-torn birth province.

We'll definitely want the bastard, I assume. Demons might have weird taste when it comes to humans, but the current offering is just awful for every reason. On that note, we should try for another suitable relative rather than Hollytree, even if they require time to mature or must be given to one of Tideus' favored children or lieutenants rather than him directly. The bastard should handle personal gain, the relative can probably handle prestige/hostage effects while going to someone other than Tideus directly.

Impressing Tideus is probably more important than making nice with Mooselund, but I doubt he has all that much more to give. We should give the hostages for free, or perhaps for a shipment of tin to Tideus.
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Powder Miner

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #96 on: March 30, 2017, 01:54:30 am »

So I guess micelus is Xamut V now, hahaha.
I agree with IronyOwl -- but giving the hostages for tin, since I don't think blowong one of our assets will necessarily impress Tideus.
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micelus

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #97 on: March 30, 2017, 11:18:28 am »

So I guess micelus is Xamut V now, hahaha.
I agree with IronyOwl -- but giving the hostages for tin, since I don't think blowong one of our assets will necessarily impress Tideus.

Betray Karses, take ship. Mary Tideus.


How about offering them two smaller loans, one made to the Sons of Ceasar and another to us that equal the amount they require?

Solving their gold issue is probably important for our reputation, at least among Humpback Island. On the other hand, we also want to spend our vast personal fortune rebuilding our own wartorn province...

I say we offer to loan them the gold through the trading company, but insist on a more profitable interest rate after a moderate grace period, noting that our shareholders will have reservations and we had intended to invest much of our own fortune in rebuilding our war-torn birth province.

We'll definitely want the bastard, I assume. Demons might have weird taste when it comes to humans, but the current offering is just awful for every reason. On that note, we should try for another suitable relative rather than Hollytree, even if they require time to mature or must be given to one of Tideus' favored children or lieutenants rather than him directly. The bastard should handle personal gain, the relative can probably handle prestige/hostage effects while going to someone other than Tideus directly.

Impressing Tideus is probably more important than making nice with Mooselund, but I doubt he has all that much more to give. We should give the hostages for free, or perhaps for a shipment of tin to Tideus.
+1
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IronyOwl

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #98 on: March 30, 2017, 01:09:05 pm »

Betray Karses, take ship. Mary Tideus.
+1+1+1 true love best ending
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Quote from: Radio Controlled (Discord)
A hand, a hand, my kingdom for a hot hand!
The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

10ebbor10

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #99 on: March 30, 2017, 01:30:50 pm »

Quote
How about offering them two smaller loans, one made to the Sons of Caesar and another to us that equal the amount they require?

Alternatively, we could offer the full thing through the Sons of Caesar, and then guarantee 50% of it. That means that we don't need to spend any of our money right now, but only if the loan fails. Doesn't piss of our shareholders, but doesn't cut in our immediate reserves either.
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micelus

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #100 on: March 30, 2017, 01:37:30 pm »

Quote
How about offering them two smaller loans, one made to the Sons of Caesar and another to us that equal the amount they require?

Alternatively, we could offer the full thing through the Sons of Caesar, and then guarantee 50% of it. That means that we don't need to spend any of our money right now, but only if the loan fails. Doesn't piss of our shareholders, but doesn't cut in our immediate reserves either.

Hmm. Thats a better idea. +1
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VoidSlayer

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #101 on: March 30, 2017, 01:40:11 pm »

Tidus wanted mooring and resupply rights in our lands, maybe he would want that on the Humpback islands as well?

IronyOwl

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #102 on: March 30, 2017, 05:15:35 pm »

Tidus wanted mooring and resupply rights in our lands, maybe he would want that on the Humpback islands as well?
Already asked, Omen told us it was too close to be worth anything.
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Quote from: Radio Controlled (Discord)
A hand, a hand, my kingdom for a hot hand!
The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Weirdsound

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #103 on: March 30, 2017, 06:24:59 pm »

Karses II, Friend of Caesar, Heir to the Loam Coast, and Descendant of the Divine Clay Elf Bloodline:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You buckle down and iron out the remaining wrinkles of the deal with authority. The Sons of Caesar Trading Company will loan Mooselund the money he needs, and you will guarantee 50% of that loan personally. Next you handle the concubine issue; You strongly feel that giving Tideus a concubine who lost her son and husband to his forces would be a bad idea. Instead the Sea Demon shall receive the bastard grandaughter now, and one of Mooselund's legitimate granddaughters when the girl eventually decided upon comes of age in about five years.

With all other business out of the way, you bring up the hostages, and quickly get Mooselund to agree to send Tideus two shiploads of tin in exchange for his brother Vulfhorn and the other naval officers. The pair are reunited on deck in what turns out to be a touching moment.

---

Once the treaty is signed, you meet with Tideus in private, and tell him you would like both the Flower Demon and some supplies to rebuild the Loam Coast in addition to the promised warships. The Sea Demon, impressed by your work at the negotiating table on his behalf, agrees to send you half his grain reserve as part of the dowery, and fifteen shiploads of lumber in exchange for services rendered.

---

Tideus leaves half his fleet in the vicinity of Humpback Island to ensure that Mooselund lives up to his part of the bargin, but returns with you, your fleet, and his officers to Tusk Falls Castle to celebrate the victory. During this trip, you write up the order for the loan to be sent to company headquarters, and mull over the idea of getting Xamut V married.

You think the Acid Elf War-Queen Whipscale would be an ideal canidate for several reasons. First and foremost is the fact she controls about as many soldiers on the Southern Continent as Imperial and Clay Elf forces combined at the height of the war, and even a small number of Acid Elves makes for a terrifying enemy if they are properly equipped with non-primitive gear. You also know Whipscale is fanatically loyal to you and a follower of your people's religion, which teaches that you and Xamut are the same person on a spiritual level - as such, the marriage should be quite appealing to her.

There is also the fact that you would like Xamut V to marry outside the family. You are not yet sure if you intend to fly in the face of imperial tradition and make wives of your sisters as well, but if you don't he and does, his children might have a better claim to the title of Pharaoh than your own.

Still, with all these factors in favor of the marriage, you are not entirely sure it is possible. Your brother's hatred of the Acid Elves is rather well known - sailor's tales say that any member of the savage race picked up by Xamut V's pirates is subject to a slow and painful death personally inflicted by the young admiral. This hatred stems from the slaughter of your mutual litter mate Xexllas, who was publicly dismembered alive by demon-lead Acid Elves during the Long Ear War. Shortly after that incident, Xamut attended your coming of age party and begged you to return home to claim your birthright, as he had no desire to be Pharaoh himself without Xexllas as his queen. At the time you agreed to consider his request following the death of Caesar Menas, whom it was presumed your father would easily outlive.

The fact that Xamut has moved on to the point where he can have a mistress is promising, but you will have to gently broach the topic of marriage with him, especially if you wish for him to make an Acid Elf his bride.

---

After a week of partying with Tideus and his sailors at the demon's castle, it comes time to move on.

Tsunamia, already bored with life ashore, and worried that spending too much time with you before the wedding might besmirch both of your reputations, intends to return to her fleet and take charge of whatever chaos your monopoly busting efforts have spawned. Jericho, ever the risk-taker, points out that he was raised in the Eastern Provinces and knows them like the back of his hand, so he intends to tag along... wrath of Caesar be damned.

Tideus gives his daughter a large chest full of the means and knowledge required to summon and bind the Flower Demon. Your betrothed informs you that she thinks it would be wise to wait until you get settled in your new home to preform the ritual, that way any runes created can be placed on the walls in some private chamber for safekeeping.

Xamut would rather not lead his fleet back into Imperial Waters without you present to vouch for it, just in case, and as such intends to remain in Tideus' service until the wedding... unless you wish to take a war fleet with you on whatever busniess you intend to deal with before the wedding. This gets you thinking about what you wish to do before the wedding, which should take some time to plan.

You could return to your mansion in the heartland, where you can attend to your business affairs, participate in the wedding planning, and perhaps help pick out the judges and other minor officials that will be appointed to serve the new Imperial Province of Loam Coast.

If you wait another month or so, perhaps touring the Everstorm Lands or hobnobbing with Tideus' court, enough time will have passed that you can head to the Loam Coast and assume your throne.

Another way to kill time before the wedding and/or your rule would be to sail to the Southern Continent and travel the lands around the Loam Coast, forming new bonds with your neighbors, and likely receiving gifts and praise from the ones that idolize you. If you drag Xamut along, it might be a good way to help him get over his hatred for the Acid Elves, of whom you would likely meet plenty.
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Powder Miner

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Re: (SG) Vassal: Rise of a Pharaoh
« Reply #104 on: March 30, 2017, 06:40:18 pm »

It might not be as openly exciting as sailing the southern continents, but I think we shouls head back to our mansion. If we intend to both rule the Loam Coast and keep our business, we probably ought to avoid neglecting our duties in these, and choosing officials will allow us more control over the direction we take our province in.
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