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Elves... we need tree hugging hippy forts!!!!!

16 (29.1%)

Goblin... Let the demons rule the land!!!!

4 (7.3%)

Necromancers... Build your own tower and fill it with your undead servants!!!

24 (43.6%)

Repair the Werebeasts... More savage beastie goodness!!!!  maybe even a fort mode!?!?

1 (1.8%)

Repair the Titans... so they will come and destroy your fortresses again!

6 (10.9%)

Repair the Night Creatures... we need more kidnapped children!

0 (0%)

Vampires... flesh out their game play so they drink more blood and even may have a fort mode!?!?

4 (7.3%)

Something different to replace one of these?  Let me know what you think would be cool?!?!

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 55

Voting closed: June 20, 2017, 09:37:53 am

[fuzzywarbles]

You are correct that I am using dwarf therapist when it show the incorrect skills associated with the caste dwarves.  Since the files look identical that would make sense that it is working correctly and Therapist is just showing the tooltip incorrectly.

I do not use minecarts that often so it is a minor annoyance that I can easily deal with.  I found a couple threads where it mentioned that bins and I think elven warriors were showing up as black tiles but I could not find anything about the mine carts specifically so I thought it might been something with my game.

Thank you for the quick reply.

[Amostubal]

You are correct that I am using dwarf therapist when it show the incorrect skills associated with the caste dwarves.  Since the files look identical that would make sense that it is working correctly and Therapist is just showing the tooltip incorrectly.

I do not use minecarts that often so it is a minor annoyance that I can easily deal with.  I found a couple threads where it mentioned that bins and I think elven warriors were showing up as black tiles but I could not find anything about the mine carts specifically so I thought it might been something with my game.

Thank you for the quick reply.

yeah I sent a few error reports over to dwarf therapist's maintainer... I think he has as much or more on his plate than I do... I'm waiting for the first "non beta" release of DFHack before I upgrade it in the pack, and I hope by then DT will be updated 1 to 2 more times... I ws just glad it works for most people, even though I don't use it... i like the the manipulator in game.

yeah I think the elves were fixed. and the bins.  The minecarts... well graphics are an oddity to me... I'm reading all I can, but wont touch anything involving the graphics on MW or DF until I know I have a better grasp at it... I'm just now getting to a point I understand building designing.  My scripting is improving daily and my raw skills are on par with most DF_modders... But draw.... now thats something I have no ability at. lol... I'll stick with borrowing other people's tiles.

running test worlds on the current planned 1.25 version.  It should be in the repo right now and if I don't have any issues, I'll be packing it and sending it to the web tomorrow.

features:
fixed The Earth Strikes Back... should be fully functional now.
fixed Random warpstone gem production... you should be seeing random warpstone gems now like they are suppose to.
fixed an error in full-heal that was tossed if a unit is resting... just incase you spam it as much as I do while trying to test things.
fixed modest mill issues... I was thinking of fully updating to the last version of modest but that's a FULL REWRITE of about 1/10th the mod.
fixed a few other minor things.
split the initialization when entering embarks... now each race has their own as to declutter the onLoad.init

[Amostubal]

AND UPDATED!  MW v 1.25 is uploaded!  More fixes and cleaned it up a little.  Contact me if you have any issues with this version.

For next update I need some ideas.... I've got some milling around my head, but It would be appreciated if someone would point out what they see MW is lacking...

Its going to be at least 2 weeks till the next update.   Here's the things I'm considering:

1. Documentation rewrite... We re seriously behind in documentation... over a year behind in documentation.
2. Start work on my own race inside of MW.... I've got an awesome idea... but it's going to take some time to put it together...
3. Start checking all the extra programs, and verify which ones work and which ones need to be replaced.

  Happy Pre-Mother's Day Present!  Its time for me to go play some myself.  so post your ideas!

[heydude6]

As someone who attempted to make a race for masterwork myself (with a team of two other people), I wouldn't recommend working on the new race immediately. There is a lot of work in there that you might not expect. You have to make the creature file, entity file, language file (this one is a bitch), reaction file (for any new reactions you might want to make), dfhack scripts (it seems like you already know how to do this so this shouldn't be a problem), and new sprites (potentially the deal breaker here, this was what inevitably killed my race the last time I worked on it, though if I were to work on it again it would be porting the .34 stuff to Df 2016 that would kill it)

Documentation rewrite though, that would be amazing! There's a wiki that's just filled to the brim with outdated articles and it would be great to bring some life into it. It might be a good idea to list the differences between reborn and Ye olde, since some guys might still appreciate documentation for the original MW.

[Amostubal]

As someone who attempted to make a race for masterwork myself (with a team of two other people), I wouldn't recommend working on the new race immediately. There is a lot of work in there that you might not expect. You have to make the creature file, entity file, language file (this one is a bitch), reaction file (for any new reactions you might want to make), dfhack scripts (it seems like you already know how to do this so this shouldn't be a problem), and new sprites (potentially the deal breaker here, this was what inevitably killed my race the last time I worked on it, though if I were to work on it again it would be porting the .34 stuff to Df 2016 that would kill it)

Documentation rewrite though, that would be amazing! There's a wiki that's just filled to the brim with outdated articles and it would be great to bring some life into it. It might be a good idea to list the differences between reborn and Ye olde, since some guys might still appreciate documentation for the original MW.

Personally I was thinking about asking that the masterwork wiki pages to be deprecate and deleted.  In many ways they are so beyond functionality that trying to "rework" them would be take months.  IT would be easier to start off from scratch... but what I was really considering was the documentation released with masterwork... it's almost as bad... I was considering producing a readthedocs file.  like the one that DFHack has.  But who knows.

The race thing... well I'm interested in delving much deeper into raw editing and that would accomplish it.  Plus the idea I had would be so much of a game change that it would provide an interesting side step while at the same time complete reduces the amount of "programming".  Personally I want to do a Zergling/xeno race...

Additionally I have a terraforming concept for the race, where they use building structures to eat away at the local environment.  All kinds of fun things.  Acid spitters, etc...

I'm also looking into a few other fun things...
updating the ZM5 creatures...

 but for right now I need a break...

[heydude6]

Well if you are taking a break, perhaps you may enjoy some reading.

The race I was working on was a race of parasitic wasps that would primarily gain population by capturing animals and invaders and feeding them to larva. Most of the communication of the team was done via forum thread so you can actually read the whole development process.

The first one you want to read is this one right here:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=141987.0

Basically, this is the thread where the idea is first suggested. Me and a few others decide to help out by contributing a few files and then there is a sort of radio silence as I continue working on my creature file, the thread creator Insanegame27 assumes the thread is dead.

By the time I finished my work, Insane has created a new thread with a new guy helping out, Than402. After a brief moment where I reappear and merge my creature file with Than's, we become less of like a bunch of one-time contributors and more of a stable development team. We make steady progress on the mod and if you are only going to read one thread, read this one!

Eventually, another thread is made in order to commemorate the beta release of the mod. Personally I thought this was too early (lot's of bugs, the core mechanic of capturing enemies was barely functional, no graphics, many missing features) but I didn't say anything because I didn't have the courage to speak up. At most you could call it an alpha, but even that is stretching it.

Soon afterwards development died. For me, this was mainly due to school and the difficulty of drawing sprites, but also realizing the shear magnitude of work still needed to be done to make it a complete and polished product.


So what does this have to do with Xenos? Well xenomorphs reproduce via eggs, then facehuggers, the host infection, then chestburster, then full-blown xenomorph. Hivemind wasps reproduce via egg, then larva, the host infection, then full-blown wasp. They are surprisingly similar. Many of the problems we encountered in development will likely be the same ones you will encounter. You can look at our threads for inspiration if you want.

Also, you will have to use Dfhack scripts to make it work. If I understand correctly, you already know how to use Dfhack so it shouldn't be as big of a problem as it was for us, but I'm just warning you that "delving much deeper into raw editing" is not going to be the only thing you need to do to accomplish this.

Still, despite all of my warnings, I see you as a very capable modder who I honestly believe has a much better chance at accomplishing a project like this than we did. Hopefully what I said so far will be helpful and I wish you good luck.

[Amostubal]

In now out of town so if this looks bad blame it on my phone...


I saved those links to my browser.

Okay I was thinking warhammer style creature I read but forgot the name of it.  Basically eventually it will become a multiple creature concept.  Basically small creature would "infect" sentient creatures causing them to be sick, feverish, dizzy and pass out.  Its a short lived sickness that ends with a transform permanent command which switches them out of their current race/caste and places them into tier 1 race and with fake caste (basically a mass caste that maintains normal definitions of the race and caste so that by all appearances in game they are a normal unit).

Use some dfhackery to even hide the attack reports of the infection... so dirt players wouldn't even suspect it unless they dig into the d fhack code.... tier 1s can randomly infect others through similar attacks like a vampire... d fhack counts will maintain unit counts and if the units ever reach a count of 1:1 with the normals... they can suddenly be morphed into tier 2 creatures that will attack the normal units of the fort.  Think plump helmet men revolts...

Now then tier 2s are werewolfs/cenobites/priests of the swarms they can appear randomly on the map like animal men.  They can also morph back into tier 1s... tier 1s castes will be assigned to appropriate civs so they may show up with "migrants".  They will try and mate with others of the same group in base giving birth to twins and triplets etc at higher rates than the race they emulate... 

Their real controllers are tier 3 a drone style race that is very simple they utilize special constructed pits to turn everything they find into biomass.  This biomass is a fuel, a building material, food etc.  Basically the conversions would be automatic, so they cut down a tree, and suddenly they are converting it into biomass. gather plants, biomass, gather fish biomass, kill a pig, biomass.   The pits will be upgradeable with resources and upgraded pits will be to create special units... queens, kings, hunters, knights etc... Basically the base unit drone sacs himself to transform into new units.... etc....


Which just reminded me.... I forgot to finish an upgrade to dwarf and human guild recruiting, basically fixing the requirement of a male and a female version to each reactions.  Its rather simple fix too... I just hadn't run tests on it... that will be in the next edition...

I've actually have literally pages and pages of writing on what I want to accomplish in that race as I do with orcfort.... if I introduced everything I have in my personal version of orcfort... specific raiding so you can't raid civs that don't exist civ raids for all potential civs, reworking of the ancient foundry,  race cells changed to upgrade buildings that look like cells (you build a cell you put the guy in the cell to turn it into the individual dwarf/elf/human etc cell). You can even remove prisoners returning the captive token.  Added captive tokens for all races(elephants, beak dogs, know, etc).  Reworked archeologist, reworked ship building, reworked vendors.  Killing of captives that left butcherable corpses, with usable/edible body parts.  skull cups.  Upgrading ghetto cells, for kobolds and goblins.  Reworked outposts, all shops that use fuel, had magma versions.  Fluidcasters could unlock magma shops(added in this version of MW).  I was about to start working on magic users... but now I would have to upgrade it to 43.05 x64 and MW 1.25 architectures..... it would cause OMGs around the world...and I felt it was still only 30% finished I had 30 pages of notes on what was going on.

Anyways enough boredom text, happy mother's day.  I'll be back home in a day or so.

[Rekov]

What MW is lacking is ELVES! People keep taunting me with promises of elves, but then it doesn't happen, or it's too buggy to implement.

[LMeire]

What MW is lacking is ELVES! People keep taunting me with promises of elves, but then it doesn't happen, or it's too buggy to implement.

Wasn't Meph waiting on some specific script to get updated? I know there was a theme that the reactions in his planned civ would be different from season to season, since the one thing that Vanilla elves have in abundance is time and he wanted to expand both on that and a codependency on the local wildlife.

[Amostubal]

What MW is lacking is ELVES! People keep taunting me with promises of elves, but then it doesn't happen, or it's too buggy to implement.

Wasn't Meph waiting on some specific script to get updated? I know there was a theme that the reactions in his planned civ would be different from season to season, since the one thing that Vanilla elves have in abundance is time and he wanted to expand both on that and a codependency on the local wildlife.

Well than he was waiting on a script writer, because we can already with DFHack identify time, day, month, season.  We can also identify local wildlife pops, and we can cancel/restrict/remove jobs, reactions from menus, and even buildings...  I was going to have to do all that in my own idea.  We even have the code to move or recode elsewhere, hardcoded reactions from building to building if we wanted (except butcher reactions,  it's only usable at the butcher shop, and crashes anywhere else, but we can rename butcher shops).   Even that last thing I know a couple of people collaborating to try and replicate those reactions.

[LMeire]

Would it be possible to give the humans a few pre-set values and leave the rest random? Because as it is they have this weird state of having a culture built around buying and selling, but potentially despising the very concept of money. That's just a cosmetic thing though, the other one is that sometimes they hate the idea of romance/family, which ensures that nobody dreams of raising a family and AFAIK that means no marriages and no kids.

[Amostubal]

It took me a minute to realize what your saying... I never paid much attention to it, but thinking back they are just set to random.  They also seem to be designed for a multi human civs approach(accidentallymap gened with only humans, kobold, and goblins.. 20 civs and every human cub was at war with at least 2 other human civs if not half of them).  Come up with a set that you think is appropriate to humans and I'll add it in... They are probably a copy over hold over, any way.

[Haekel]

1. Documentation rewrite... We re seriously behind in documentation... over a year behind in documentation.

sobbing from the dark corner slowly ebbs away ... I can has documentation?

Seriously, this would make my week. I've been trying to get into MW, and keep seeing new stuff that I can't find any information on. Not here, the wiki, the manual, or the deep, dark crevasses of the internet.

It's like the early 90's here, I have to ask PEOPLE if I have questions. Send help.

[LMeire]

Well as humans are described as being "prone to great ambition", and taking their MW mercantile/mercenary nature, I think it'd be best to just make sure they don't completely hate the values that affect goals/longterm survival and let the RNG sort the rest out. So maybe:
*Consults Wiki*
Family: 10-35
Power: 0-33
Artwork: 0-33
Craftsmanship: 0-33
Martial Prowess: 0-33
Skill: 0-33
Commerce: 15-40
Romance: 10-35
Knowledge: 0-33

So nothing too extreme, with the average human society at least respecting an ideal even if individuals don't have an interest in it. And from what I've seen in vanilla, those numbers aren't hard limits on behavior because I've gotten dwarves that "despised artwork and would delight in destroying a masterwork if he got the chance" and some that think it's the best thing since Betty White- so keeping the lower range near the center should let at least somebody have a personal dislike of one value or another.

[Amostubal]

1. Documentation rewrite... We re seriously behind in documentation... over a year behind in documentation.

sobbing from the dark corner slowly ebbs away ... I can has documentation?

Seriously, this would make my week. I've been trying to get into MW, and keep seeing new stuff that I can't find any information on. Not here, the wiki, the manual, or the deep, dark crevasses of the internet.

It's like the early 90's here, I have to ask PEOPLE if I have questions. Send help.

Well considering a few options I'm looking at I may know documentation out along with another fix I'm looking at doing.... If it all works Masterwork will become even more flexible than ever. As one person has said to me... "Masterwork used to be the gold standard of DF modding, Clean it up, redoc it, increase its flexibility and it can be the gold standard again... "  Well I was thinking why stop there lets make it the Platinum standard, the 5 star model, the diamond crusted version of DF....

So tell me does anyone else feel like the current version is the fastest loading MW since 1.19? I've not updated my home system I'm running DF on since 1.17 and I've never been able to load, world gen, etc this fast... maybe its me maybe its my personal preference but I'm excited!

Well as humans are described as being "prone to great ambition", and taking their MW mercantile/mercenary nature, I think it'd be best to just make sure they don't completely hate the values that affect goals/longterm survival and let the RNG sort the rest out. So maybe:
*Consults Wiki*
Family: 10-35
Power: 0-33
Artwork: 0-33
Craftsmanship: 0-33
Martial Prowess: 0-33
Skill: 0-33
Commerce: 15-40
Romance: 10-35
Knowledge: 0-33

So nothing too extreme, with the average human society at least respecting an ideal even if individuals don't have an interest in it. And from what I've seen in vanilla, those numbers aren't hard limits on behavior because I've gotten dwarves that "despised artwork and would delight in destroying a masterwork if he got the chance" and some that think it's the best thing since Betty White- so keeping the lower range near the center should let at least somebody have a personal dislike of one value or another.

Awesome, yeah your talking about conflicting between the creature and the entity definitions.  They look good, I'm glad you know how that functions.  putting these in my notes for what needs to be done.

Another thing I noticed... I still didn't grab up Dookmiester's graphic fixes for Meph's tileset... I've thought about it for a long time... I did install it once on 1.23 and played with it some... I might tackle that too in the next version.. It will reduce that list of OMG we have missing TWBTs yellow text on the first load of a map with meph's tileset.  should convert just fine

I am going to finish off and test that guild upgrade that removes the need for the "separate" reactions for each sex.  speeding up the use/functionality of it.  Additionally anyone really want me to "force" the consumption of the reagents in human guilds for the extensions... Either they should be just lost forever, or If I can catch the items from reagent I can force them to be stored in the building construction items... It may take some testing... but If no one cares, I'll leave it alone.

DFHAck 43.05r1 will be added in, if the TWBT for it becomes available...

It will be 2 weeks till next update... unless miracles happen.  There is a lot of BIG things I want to get done, and RL work is also going to be heavy these next 2 weeks, I've got some major events going on... so we will see.  If I get all the above done, and make progress on my next "gold standard" concept for the mod.  I might even update sooner.  anyways lets get this thing right!